time i suspect you're going to see in july 2011 would be a token withdrawal, if any. after all, chuck, you well know, and savannah, they even changed the nomenclature. it's not the beginning of the withdrawal but the beginning of the transition. >> right. >> quickly, is this going well enough in the mind of secretary of state gates that he feels comfortable leaving, by the way, in 2011? leaving his post? wl . >> reporter: when i was there last week i asked that very question. he said he'll be comfortable leaving if the progress that -- progress continues, and it's irreversible. it's not there yet, but i think there's a heightened optimism among military commanders and even gates himself that it could be an irreversible progress by the time he leaves, but he won't tell us when that is. right now the guesstimate is somewhere perhaps right after that july 2011 deadline that the president has set. >> that's what we hear from atia