Thanks for having me here. Im trying to think about your new job in this way. Is being a White House Correspondent at the moment the best job ever or the worst job ever . In my mind its not the best job ever because i think that theres a lot of jobs in journalism that are amazing, but this is one of the best gigs in town for sure. In dc i think its the best job, because you have a front row seat to a history making president. Before donald trump was elected, i said if we get him, hell be the first reality tv president. I think that thats completely still true. I think if you are covering donald trump and have not watched the apprentice and do not watch reality tv, then you are absolutely doing yourself a disservice and you need to start doing that, because he is part of the culture and was born out of this culture. Thats like on the required reading list of the class, right . But im thinking, you know, we all grow up, well those of us who are in journalism think that being the White House Correspondent is, if not the very top of the profession, then one of those jobs that you think, im aspiring to that, it would be amazing one day. But i wonder if this president and this presidency makes it kind of a weirder deal. Because the nature of being a White House Correspondent over time has been one way, and its just different, right . Its different. The beauty of being young and maybe a little naive is that you dont know what the last White House Correspondent gig was like. I only know about the one that i have, and the one that i have requires we sit here, youve been in the job for all of a couple weeks, right . Ive been in the job for two weeks. But i also think that being a journalist is completely different than what it was for most of my mentors. I wake up and im checking twitter. So i, its normal for me to already have been checking twitter, now i have to really check twitter because the person that i cover starts tweeting at six am. Sometimes even earlier, right . Yeah, and as someone who because a journalist because i wanted to be a civil rights journalist, this is a great time to cover an administration that says that they want to do a lot of Different Things for people, want to essentially help africanamericans out, he said. So i think im really interested to see what that actually turns into. Hows that working out so far . Hows that working out so far . So far its really tough to say because i think that he has said a lot about africanamerican unemployment, and the numbers are low, but to really peel back on what that means, unemployment numbers could mean the persons dropped out, or it could mean the person has actually gotten a job. Its pretty true that there are, in some areas of the country there are spikes in hate crimes. Most poles say that americans are more divided than ever along race lines. So essentially were a country that has absolutely found itself fighting over race and racial issues, but also confronting them in a way that we really havent before. So for a journalist whos really interested in the white house and race, this is a perfect time to be a White House Correspondent. Well were having that conversation for sure, whether its a good conversation or a bad one. And lets also say that for any president , one year is not enough time really to make a sufficient judgment on metrics. We dont know metrics yet, really, on this. But let me come back to the changes to journalism, and as you said, why youre doing the job, and lets stay with this president. So you actually wrote about donald trump for the years that you were, about three years that you were at the New York Times. Or two . Like two and a half. Two and a half years at the New York Times. So youre not coming to this subject without a perspective. You have a sense of who he is. I have a sense of who he is and i have a sense of who his voters are, because i spent time out on the campaign trail talking to his voters, talking to people when the access Hollywood Tape came out. I also only covered Bernie Sanders and donald trump, so i never covered Hillary Clinton, which to me helps me understand that there are a lot of americans that are angry for a lot of different reasons. I agree, well the sanders and the trump people, its often thought, had more in common with one another than with the people in their parties. They have a lot in common. Mainly, theyre both very angry at kind of government and how its worked. They think theyve been getting screwed by the system. They think theyre getting screwed by the system, they both think that the system is rigged. One group is largely blaming either the government or people of color for their problems. Its usually Trump Supporters who say, i dont think that all of them are blaming people of color, but theres at least a good number of them that are. On the Bernie Sanders wing its the billionaires and millionaires and capitalism thats created the problems and thats why your town isnt doing as well as it used to do. And so when you covered trump and sanders, that was during the context of the campaign, and then postcampaign, once trump had won, you began to cover, as i understand it, and as i remember, reading your coverage in the times, the impact of trumps policies on communities of color, among other subjects, right . Yes, and working class people. Focusing specifically on that. Focusing specifically on that. I wrote about Climate Change after he pulled out of the paris accords. I asked my question, how does this impact my beat . Do poor people and Climate Change overlap . I found out that they of course overlap a lot. So i ended up going to houston and galveston, texas and talked to people that were day laborers about how hot its getting. We talk about Climate Change a lot about polar bears and cities that might be underwater, but i found that theres a whole Climate Justice aspect that says that the people who should really be representative of Climate Change are refugee children and people running out of water. Would there have been a beat, yamiche, if Hillary Clinton has won, on the impact of the policies of the white house on communities of color . I think so, because one of the first stories that i wrote for the New York Times was about how haitian people, im haitian, both my parents are haitian youre from a hole country. Youre from a hole country. Im trying to stay on set right now. So i will not do what my mother would have done, which is slap you. However. However. This, by the way, this was the best moment in the whole history of this show, right . In the whole history of this show, right . But, so knowing that, knowing that haitians did not like Hillary Clinton, they had real issues with her between the clinton foundation, between americas impact on who was the president of haiti or the alleged impact of that. So there was a real issue with clinton, so i think that this beat would have been there had clinton been elected. It would have been different, of course. Different. For sure. But it probably, and for journalists of color like me and maybe other journalists as well, who always write about people of color, i would have always been writing about the impact of federal policies on people of color. So when you say journalists of color always write about people of color, is that necessarily the case . I mean i think that, you know, you are clearly interested in a whole array of subjects, but have made this a focus. Surely, and in previous generations as well, and maybe especially, this was not necessarily a focus of people, either journalists of color or not. Well, when i say journalists of color, something has evolved in terms of the thinking of this as a beat, i guess is what im saying. I think some journalists of color are very interested in people of color. I think that there are also journalists of color, like say, my fiancee that im gonna marry in a month, who likes writing about sports. He likes writing sometimes about race, but sometimes he just wants to write about the eagles and the superbowl. So theres this idea, when i say that, i mean the journalists of color who have taken the option to wanna write about people of color. Im a journalist who started because i heard about the story of emmett till and said, i wanna be a civil rights journalist, i wanna be writing about civil rights. This is your foundational story. My foundational story is the story of emmett till and learning about his death, and learning about how the image of a young boy scarred, changed the country. And thats the kind of, thats who i wanted to be. So on the subject of being a journalist of color, and particularly being a black woman covering the white house, im sorry im not gonna be in washington dc in a couple weeks. Youre participating in an event with your colleagues in the press corps, april ryan, nia malika henderson, and theres an ap reporter as well. Yeah, darlene superville. Darlene superville, who are all black women who are covering the Trump Administration in some capacity, to talk about what its like. Again, amazing to think, first of all, lets talk about how great it is that there are so many reporters of color in the White House Press room. But beyond that, the fact that were having a conversation about the experience of being a black woman covering this white house tells you something about this white house and how the environment, the atmosphere, the tenor may be different enough that we have to have that conversation. Yeah, i mean, i interviewed some White Supremacists before the, right before the Cleveland Convention who said for the first time in their lifetime they were excited about a president ial candidate. And that didnt mean that donald trump is a white supremacist, thats not what im saying, but im saying that there were definitely White Supremacists who looked at him, heard what he was saying and said, this is my guy. I mean, that tells you that somethings going on there and that the language that people are using in this administration is sending off notes, whether intentionally or unintentionally, sending off messages to people who think that people like me shouldnt be here. And i think about april ryans experience particularly, because shes probably the most visible black woman in the White House Press corps in the room every day with Sarah Sanders, and i think about how shes been talked to and treated. And some people have said that april ryan has been treated differently by this administration in that room than other people. And i mean, it really is, its terrible to have to be having this conversation. But the fact is, this is a moment. Its a moment. This administration has also been an administration that has said that the media could be the enemy of the people, who has called my former employer, the New York Times, failing, who has the fake media news awards. So theres this idea that, yes, april ryan was treated, i think its arguably objective to say that no one else is being asked can they set up meetings with the cbc, the congressional black caucus, other than april ryan. No one else got that question when they asked about that. But this is an administration that is treating the media differently on a whole host of different areas. Have you interviewed the president yet . I have not. Do you have any desire to interview the president. Of course, who wouldnt, right . Yeah, i would definitely be interested in interviewing him. What is your sense of him personally . I mean, you have colleagues, certainly, who have interviewed him. I keep asking people who have interactions with him, whats he like, whats he like, and i wonder, is that a weird thing to ask . But im really curious as a citizen. Like, how much of what we see is an act . And how much of who he actually is in the room is different than the person we see on tv . Well if you watch the interviews that hes done and listen to the recordings of interviews that hes done, he seems to be a really personable person. If you watch the apprentice, hes also kind of entertaining, kind of wants you to really like him so hes saying things that maybe is trying to flatter you. Even if he doesnt like the New York Times as a whole, he still is giving you access to him. So i think theres that aspect that definitely, he is someone who is probably a charming kind of charismatic person. But then if you look at the historical donald trump, you look at the person who took out the ad on the, with the central park five, if you look at the person who was sued by the Justice Department because he was discriminating against people and saying that africanamericans shouldnt be living in his building, i think then you get a clearer picture of who he is in terms of policies and his views of people of color. I interviewed his ex black girlfriend or multiracial girlfriend, shes part africanamerican, and she said that he would talk about africanamericans but he also really liked hanging out with africanamerican celebrities. He liked hanging out with russell simmons, he liked hanging out with al sharpton. Jesse jackson told me that he gave his Organization Space in his building for free. So there was this part of him that was going to these meetings where people were trying to get more black people on wall street and was interested in that topic. There werent cameras there, there werent people edging him on, he was genuinely like, yeah jesse jackson, come to my tower. And he wasnt running for office at the time. He wasnt running for office at the time, so a complex person is essentially who the president is. If you got the opportunity, in the context of the particular beat that youre on or the interest that you have in civil rights journalism as you described it, to sit down with him and to talk about race with him, what would you wanna ask him . The first question i would ask is why do you think White Supremacists are excited about your presidency . What is it about what you said that you think hits a chord with people who wanna discriminate against people of color . And should they not be excited about you . And people say that youre a racist, what do you say to those people who call you a racist . Its one thing to say, i know youve said in the past, youre the least racist person ever, why . He said it just like, two weeks ago, right . You said youre the least racist person ever, explain to me why thats the case. Wheres the evidence for that . Do you believe hes racist . I am a reporter thats covering, so i cant but youre also a human. Yeah, and i feel like for me, im punting on that question because i dont think that as a reporter we should be talking about that. I dont think that as a reporter, i should be out there saying donald trump is one way or the other. I think i can lay out for people what he said and they can make their decision, which is what my job is as of right now. Havent the goal posts, though, changed for journalism . It wasnt too long ago that news organizations would not call a president , this president or any other, a liar. Now the word liar appears in chyrons on television and appears in headlines, including in the pages of your old employer the New York Times, on a semiregular basis. So hasnt the whole conversation around how we asses people like this president changed . I dont think that its changed in that, or maybe its changed because the presidency has changed, but i as a person think a lie is a lie. So if you say a lie, you could call it an untruth or call it something different, but its really just a lie. Theres, so i think that if you Say Something thats racist, you could just say that its racist. Even if youre not a racist you could say, saying that mexican are criminals and rapists is a racist comment. But that doesnt make the individual, in your mind, a racist so much as you have to call them out for that. Yeah i think you have to call them out for that. We have family, i have family members that say stupid things. Does that mean that youre a complete idiot . Maybe not. But it means that you really have to stop saying stupid things. To stop saying stupid things. And just leave it at that. And just leave it at that. Alright so, this kinda gets to this question of journalism and how journalism has changed, because again, im thinking about this new job you have as the White House Correspondent for the newshour and i think, this president s different, being a White House Correspondent itself is not the job it once was. Theres a conversation now about whether access journalism or being that close to power necessarily produces good reporting, or if you would be better off in houston and galveston talking to day laborers about Climate Change. Is journalism better done on the ground where it affects peoples lives or is being in that room necessarily productive . Do you have a point of view about that . I was thinking about that because i left the New York Times, which is an amazing job and it was like a dream job for other people, to come to a place that is another dream place for people, which is pbs newshour. But different. But different. But i thought to myself, the presence of that room, im one of the only people, maybe, that has an afro sitting in the presence of Sarah Sanders who she has to look at and answer questions to. I think that theres, i was very inspired by gwen ifill just by her presence. And my presence, i think, means something to people in that room. But the other thing is, i like pbs for what theyve told me the job is gonna be because they said, part of your job is going to be going out into the c