Transcripts For KPIX 60 Minutes 20180219

We changed regimes in egypt we cant crosstalk we hear you. 14 passionately partisan strangers. How you been, sweetie . Now, they greet each other like old friends. What has being in this group meant for you, outside of the group . I dont have access to trump voters outside of this group. So, this has helped me to understand perspectives that i would not have had access to. crosstalk they may know each other a lot better now. However their political views. Id argue that you hate liberals. I do. Have not changed. Were just never going to agree on 80 . So 20 , we need to figure out a way to come together on. Im steve kroft. Im lesley stahl. Im scott pelley. Im anderson cooper. Im oprah winfrey. Im bill whitaker. Those stories, tonight, on 60 minutes. Each day justin chooses to walk. At work. And after work. He does it all with dr. Scholls. Only dr. Scholls has massaging gel insoles that provide allday comfort. To keep him feeling more energized. Dr. Scholls. Born to move. So i trust nature made vitamins. Health and life. Because they were the first to be verified by usp for quality and purity standards. And because i recommend them as a pharmacist. Nature made, the 1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. And with ancestrydna liveson sale for just 69, now is the time to discover yours. You can find out where you get. Your precision. Your grace. Your drive. And now, with more than 150 ethnic regions to connect to, only ancestrydna can put your greatness on full display. Save 30 now at ancestrydna. Com. Tonight, White House Correspondent margaret brennan, on assignment for 60 minutes. Brennan Rex Tillerson admits he was an unconventional choice for secretary of state. He had no prior government experience, but as c. E. O. Of exxonmobil, he had crisscrossed the globe, striking deals with foreign leaders. Secretary tillerson, a man who still considers himself a boy scout, and follows what he calls the code of the west, is fiercely private, and has shied away from interviews. But he agreed to do a rare, wideranging one with us. With the olympics underway and north korea very much on his mind, he talked to us about what may be the toughest deal he will ever work on. In his new years day speech, kim jongun said the entire area of the u. S. Mainland is within our Nuclear Strike range. Thats got to make you nervous. Rex tillerson it does make us nervous. It it also it also stiffens our resolve. That kind of a threat to the American People by a regime like this is not acceptable. And the president s meeting his responsibilities as commander in chief of asking our military, secretary mattis at the defense department, to ensure we are prepared for anything. Brennan and those military options are there in case you fail. Tillerson in case i fail. I say to my chinese counterpart, you and i fail, these people get to fight. Thats not what we want. Brennan but you are willing to work with, and potentially negotiate with kim jongun. Tillerson well, thats who we will have to work with to achieve this diplomatically. What we have to determine now is are we even ready to start . Are they ready to start . And if theyre not, well just keep the Pressure Campaign underway and we will increase that pressure. And we are doing that every month. There are new sanctions rolled out. The world wants north korea to change. Brennan well, theres some questions about how badly china wants them to change. Youve really needed their help to put economic pressure on kim jongun. What reassurances have you given to china so that they actually follow through . Tillerson what i think we got a common understanding with china is that north korea represents a serious threat to china as well. And weve been very clear with them, that they are going to have an Important Role to play once we get to the negotiating table. Brennan so, i hear you saying there, these wouldnt be oneonone talks. China would be at the table. Tillerson early on, they might be oneonone discussions for the u. S. First and north korea to determine, is there a reason to begin to put the construct for negotiations in place. Brennan what is the carrot that youre dangling for north korea, to convince them to talk . Tillerson were not using a carrot to convince them to talk. Were using large sticks. And that is what they need to understand. This Pressure Campaign is putting is having its bite on north korea, its revenue streams. Its having a bite on its military programs. Brennan but to say full denuclearization, why would they agree to give up something theyve already got, that they think is an insurance policy . Tillerson because it buys them nothing. It buys them more of being the hermit kingdom, isolated, isolated from the world diplomatically, isolated from the world economically. Brennan senator bob corker, chairman of Senate Foreign relations committee, said every one of us should pray Rex Tillerson and jim mattis are successful over the course of the next eight to ten months, diplomatically, or our nation is going to be facing one of the greatest military decisions that we face. Eight to ten months. Thats how much time you have to get this done . Tillerson im going to use all the Time Available to me. Our diplomatic efforts will continue until that first bomb drops. My job is to never have a reason for the first bomb to drop. And we dont know precisely how much time is left on the clock. Brennan you seem to have convinced the president that diplomacy is the way to go on this, but it wasnt always so clear. Back in october, you said you were working to get a dialogue going with the North Koreans, and the president tweeted, rex, stop wasting your time trying to negotiate with little rocket man. Have you asked him not to call him little rocket man . laughter is that a diplomatic term . Tillerson the president s going to the president s going to communicate the way he communicates. My job as chief diplomat is to ensure that the North Koreans know, we keep our channels open, im listening. Im not sending a lot of messages back, because theres nothing to say to them at this point. So, im listening for you to tell me youre ready to talk. Brennan how will you know . Tillerson they will tell me. They will tell me. Brennan that explicitly . Tillerson we receive messages from them, and i think it will be very explicit as to how we want to have that first conversation. Whats the latest . Brennan as we saw during this meeting with top aides about the crisis in yemen, the whole world is now his portfolio. Tillerson i think i saw some reports of further missile attacks. Brennan but Rex Wayne Tillerson comes from a family of modest means in north texas. He was named after actors rex allen and john wayne, because his parents loved westerns. We actually have a photo of you back in your boy scout uniform. I understand you rose to eagle scout . Tillerson yes. Brennan so how old were you here . Tillerson i think i was 14 when that was taken. Brennan you look very proud. Tillerson i am very proud. laughs and was very proud. I still am. Brennan i can tell. I mean, boy scouts, you reference it a fair amount. That played a big, formative role in your life. Tillerson it really shaped who i am. Brennan you still think of yourself as a boy scout . Tillerson yes. Brennan really . Tillerson absolutely. Brennan you dont get to be the c. E. O. Of exxon mobile as a boy scout. Tillerson i did. Brennan you talked a lot about something that you call the code of the west. What does that mean . Tillerson well, you know, the code of the west, as the west was unfolding, there wasnt a lot of law enforcement, and people basically relied upon each others word. And my word is my bond. And ive used that throughout my life as well, even at exxon mobil. I would sit down with the head of state for that country, or the c. E. O. Of that company, and wed look each other in the eye. And id say, all i need to know is that youre going to live up to your side of this deal. And i give you my word ill live up to my side of this deal. And then, a lot of the code of the west was, people were very loyal to their organizations. And the phrase, riding for the brand is a phrase thats always stuck with me, that brennan riding for the brand . Tillerson riding for the brand. When a cowboy signed on to a ranch or or to that organization, he was committed to that organization. Brennan and what is the brand for you now . Tillerson the state department of the United States government. The American People are my brand. Brennan so, one leader you hadnt met before december of 2016 was donald trump. Tell me what that First Encounter was like. Tillerson we met in his office in trump tower. And he just began by asking me, you know, i want you to just kind of talk about how how you see the world. So we just we walked around the world for about an hour. And then after that, he kind of went into a little bit of a sales pitch with me, and said, i want you to be my secretary of state. And i was stunned. Brennan you didnt know it was a Job Interview . Tillerson no, i didnt. I didnt. I i thought it was just i was going up just to talk to him and share with him, which ive done with previous president s. I did with president obama, i did with president bush. So i really thought thats all it was. laughs brennan do you have any sense of what you were getting yourself into . Tillerson so, by and large, i did. Brennan youve won some policy arguments. When it came to keeping troops in afghanistan. You prevented the president , in some ways, from tearing up the iran nuclear deal, like you said he was going to do. You lost a few arguments too. The paris climate agreement, the president exited. The transpacific trade partnership, you cautioned against ripping up a deal america had committed to, and you cautioned against moving the u. S. Embassy to jerusalem on the timeline they laid out. Do you think thats a fair accounting of your record . Tillerson i think the American People have won, with the decisions the president has taken. And its not about agreeing or disagreeing. Because hes hes the decision maker. Brennan tell me what its like to work in an administration where the u. S. Has walked away, or threatened to walk away, from a number of commitments. That has to be hard for someone who believes in the code of the west. Tillerson well, some of those, i think its important to keep in mind what the level of commitment was. We have agreements that the Congress Never had the opportunity to weigh in on. And so, President Trump was elected by the American People, and many of these were issues that he ran on. Reporter white house officials have said that you are going to be pushed out. Brennan in the past year, tillerson spent a lot of time denying that he was being outflanked by others in the president s inner circle, and that he was either going to resign or be fired. Tillerson thats ridiculous. Brennan . After reports he called the president a moron. Brennan why didnt you deny calling the president a moron . Tillerson you know, thats a really old question. Brennan you understand that by not answering the question, some people thought you were confirming the story. Tillerson i think ive answered the question. Brennan you think you answered the question. Tillerson ive answered the question. Brennan did you call the president a moron . Tillerson im not going to dignify the question. We got so many bigger issues that we could be talking about. Im not from this town. I understand this town likes to talk about a lot of things that are really not important. Brennan do you think you have enemies in this town . Tillerson i dont know. Brennan where do you think those reports came from . That you were resigning, or being fired . Tillerson i i i have no idea where they come from. I really dont. And i dont give it much thought. Brennan i mean, you walk into Ministry Meetings and reporters are shouting, sir, when are you resigning . Tillerson i never hear those questions. laughs you know, the only person that knows whether im resigning or not is me. Brennan so, one of the other challenges that you have here is sometimes the president s message doesnt jive with your own. I think youd acknowledge that. Tillerson well, as i said, the president communicates in his own style, his own way, his own words. And from time to time, i i will ask him, are you changing the policy . Because if we are, obviously, i need to know, and Everyone Needs to know. Brennan well, you wouldve thought hed talk to you about changing the policy before he tweeted. Tillerson and and to finish the thought, that has never happened. Every time ive talked to him, he says, no, the policy hasnt changed. And i say let then im good. laughs thats all i need to know. I thought today wed just have a chat. Brennan within the ranks of the state department, there have been complaints that secretary tillerson is dismantling american diplomacy by embracing major budget cuts, and being slow to fill crucial jobs. Brennan there are 41 embassies without confirmed ambassadors, and thats even in places where there are crises. No ambassador in south korea, saudi arabia, in turkey. How do you explain that . Tillerson well, theres been no dismantling at all of the state department. Weve got terrific people, both Foreign Service officers, civil servants, that have stepped into those roles around the world brennan on an interim basis. Tillerson and have stepped in here. It is an interim basis. So clearly, it is not with the same kind of support that i wish everyone had. But our Foreign Policy objectives continue to be met. Brennan but some of these dont even have nominees. I mean, 41 embassies without ambassadors in them. Tillerson well, some of these are in the process. Its not a question of people being, are neglecting the importance of it. Its just the nature of the process itself. Brennan youve said you had a very close relationship with vladimir putin. Youve done huge deals with him. Photos of you toasting him with champagne. And all that closeness raised eyebrows. It even inspired a saturday night live skit. Did you ever see that skit . Tillerson i did. My kids pointed me to it. Putey . Oh, my god rexy, baby zadida brennan did you laugh . Tillerson absolutely. Absolutely. I laughed out loud. Brennan it made light, though, of of this concern that you have a friendship with vladimir putin, and that because of that, you and the president arent going to hold him to account. Tillerson the relationship that i had with president putin spans 18 years now. It was always about, what could i do to be successful on behalf of my shareholders, how russia could succeed. Brennan how different was it walking into the kremlin as secretary of state . Tillerson it was different. Because and i had to think very, very carefully about that, and the only thing i said to him was mr. President , same man, different hat. Brennan but the dynamic changed. Tillerson the dynamic changed because the issues were different. What he is representing is different than what i now represent. And i and i said to him, i now represent the American People. And and i think it was important that that be said right up front. And he clearly got, i mean, he clearly understood that as well. Brennan but since youre secretary of state now, youve accused him of violating Nuclear Arms Control agreements, of cheating on north korea sanctions, letting assad continue now to use chlorine gas chemical weapons on civilians. He doesnt seem to be particularly concerned about the warnings youre giving him. Tillerson well, i dont know. Well see if hes concerned or not. Brennan there were six chlorine gas attacks in the past 30 days. Tillerson thats correct. And we have called them out for the fact that russia has special responsibilities, in our view, because of commitments they made, to destroy chemical weapons and ensure they knew that there were none. Brennan that sounds a lot like the last administration. That doesnt sound very different. Tillerson well, when it comes to killing people with chemical weapons, it shouldnt look any different. I think the only difference is the consequences for it, and President Trump has already demonstrated there will be consequences. Brennan does that mean military action is still on the table . Tillerson as it was brennan for chlorine gas attacks . Tillerson as it was in april last year, we are serious about our demands that chemical weapons not become regularized or normalized as a as a weapon in any conflict. Brennan why not implement the sanctions that Congress Overwhelmingly says they want to see put on russia . Tillerson we have and we are. Weve taken steps that have already prevented a number of Russian Military sales as a result of the legislation. And we are evaluating additional individuals for for possible sanctioning. Brennan so, now we are under time constraint. Near the end of our interview, we were interrupted by a phone call from the president. Tillerson be right back. Brennan afterwards, the secretary took us out for a brief stroll on his terrace, before heading to the white house. Brennan how often do you talk to the president . Tillerson we typically will try to talk every day, even if its only for a few minutes. A lot of times, ill call from the the road when im on a trip, just to let him know how its going. Brennan Rex Tillerson enjoys the view from the top of the state department. He seems to be one of the few people in washington not surprised hes still here. If i believe the press reports that came out about you in the past year, you would not be sitting here talking to me as the secretary of state. It seems like reports of your political death were premature . Tillerson well, i hope with this little bit of exchange weve had, you understand the man better. Thats why im still here. Those things dont bother me. Im here to serve my country. I committed to this president. My word is my bond. I ride for this brand. Thats why im here. And nothing anybody else says is going to change that. Cbs money watch sponsored by lincoln financial, helping you protect those you love most. Quijano good evening. The embattled Weinstein Company has fired its president , david glasser. Earnings reports from walmart, home depot and roku are expected this week. And marvels black panther is on track to bring in over 200 million at the box office this president s day weekend. Im elaine quijano, cbs news. People would stare. Psoriasis does that. It was tough getting out there on stage. I wanted to be clear. I wanted it to last. So i kept on fighting. I found something that worked. And keeps on working. Now . They see me. See me. See if cosentyx could make a difference for you cosentyx is proven to help people with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Find clear skin that can last. Dont use if youre allergic to cosentyx. Before starting cosentyx, you should be checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms. Or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. If you have inflammatory bowel disease, tell your doctor if symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions may occur. Never give up. See me. See me. Clear skin can last. Dont hold back. Ask your dermatologist if cosentyx can help you find clear skin that lasts. Do you like freshly steamed lobster . Do you like the word and . Then youll love outbacks steak and lobster. Back by popular demand, only 15. 99. So hurry in now. Outback steakhouse. Aussie rules. So hurry in now. Dixie® ultras flexproof™ Technology Makes it twice as strong as the leading store brand. Thats strength you can count on. Winfrey one year into Donald Trumps presidency, americans remain divided, often unwilling to listen to what the other side has to say. Its happening in families, among friends and at the workplace. We witnessed that schism first hand last fall when we went to grand rapids, michigan, and gathered 14 people seven who voted for mr. Trump, seven who did not for a wideranging discussion about politics, policy and the president himself. To mark President Trumps first year in office, we decided to repeat the experiment. We never intended to go back to grand rapids, but then we learned that, after disagreeing on virtually everything, our group stayed in close touch. Members from opposite sides of the divide actually became friends, organizing outings and talking every day in a private Facebook Chat group. All of that made us want to go back. Can we please come together and at least give this president a chance . Winfrey this was the group when we met them in Downtown Grand Rapids six months ago President Trump is not setting the tone. Every day, i love him more and more. Winfrey 14 passionately partisan strangers. Paul how you been, sweetie . Winfrey now, they greet each other like old friends. Lauren taylor, a liberal community organizer, and tom nemcek, a staunch libertarian and supporter of President Trump, couldnt be farther apart politically. But they took the initiative to bring the group together. gunfire tom, a gun rights advocate, took members of the group shooting. Laura i never shot a handgun till tom taught me how. Winfrey it made such an impression on laura ansara, she bought her own gun and joined the n. R. A. gunfire matt hold, hold, hold winfrey Matt Wiedenhoeft, a trump supporter who teaches economics and coaches a hockey team at grand valley state university, invited them to a saturday night game. And nearly the entire group turned out for what they call a teambuilding workout, organized by jennifer allard, a lifelong republican who says she couldnt bring herself to vote for donald trump. Wesley watson, a Community Health activist was there. So was daniel skidmore, a conservative and firsttime voter, and maggie ryan, a lawyer and selfdescribed independent. When we first met, there were some of you who had said that, you know, youd never been in conversations, certainly engagement, with members of the opposite side, political side. So has that changed for you now . Jennifer yes. Because now im looking at them as people, not as, youre trump or not trump. This has been an incredible experience and an education for me. Frank luntz this never, ever happens. Winfrey a few weeks ago, we reassembled the group, a Cross Section of voters selected for us by conservative pollster frank luntz. Luntz i was surprised that they stayed together, because there was every reason, based on the conversation, that they would pull themselves apart. Winfrey yeah. Luntz but what i liked about it is that they came to respect each other, appreciate each other, and live each others lives to some degree, so that they could empathize. That was a laboratory. Winfrey they may know each other a lot better now, but their political views. Youre joking. Winfrey . Have not changed, especially when it comes to President Trump. So, how many people here voted for him . Just to remind everybody. And how many of you would vote for him again . You would vote for him again . Laura yeah my 401 k is up 35 . My house is up another 31,000. Yes daniel i feel like he cares more about me than the last president did. He cares about issues affecting my daytoday life more, like the tax cuts. Thatll increase my bottom line. Tim its temporary. Daniel better than nothing. Winfrey so the tax plan, do you feel, are you going to personally benefit from that . Daniel yes, i will. I calculated ill benefit from it. Winfrey tom, you said the quote that was so memorable the last time i love him more and more every day. Do you still feel that . Tom i do. Winfrey do you still send a check every time he does something that you approve of . Tom when he fulfills a campaign promise, yes i do. Winfrey and matt, you said something the last time, like, he speaks for us, or speaks like us. Matt he speaks like everybody else does. This guys straightforward. Im bringing jobs back. Im worried about america first. And thats what im going to do. And guess what . Hes kept every promise he started, because he said it. Tom what he means is, he doesnt speak like a politician. Wesley over the last few weeks, our president have made comments about haitians, and maggie bleep hole countries, i mean . Tom were you guys in the room . Were you guys in the room . Were you in the room . Kim oh, my goodness. Tom okay, because theres three people who were in that room who said he never said this. Winfrey the room was the oval office, where, in a meeting about immigration, the president reportedly used profanity to describe haiti, el salvador and african countries, while praising norway. Who here believes that he made the comment about bleep hole countries . Tim absolutely. Kim absolutely. Winfrey you think he made the comment . Paul yeah, i think he made the comment. I think all president s have made a comment behind closed doors that wasnt reported winfrey you think all president s have used the term bleep hole . Paul yes, i do. Tim okay, can i just Say Something . Its not about the swearing. Okay . I expect every politician to say that. Its the fact that he demeaned an entire race or a country. And if our president , who we i respect the office, and i expect and demand better actions than that. Maggie my relatives came from ireland, and that was, for a long time, considered to be a bleep hole country. Its obviously, irish people arent discriminated against now, but, like, they were for a really long time. And you cant Say Something about a country that then applies to all the people coming from it. Winfrey okay . Matt i can see him using the language. But you guys, at times, you need to look at the man youre talking about. This man looks at one lens, through one lens and all. Its an economic lens. He did not look at this as people in those countries, in my opinion. Jennifer and thats unfortunate. Matt he did not say the haitian people or the people of africa. He said, those countries. Winfrey come on, matt. crosstalk if youre talking about matt, if youre talking about the country, youre talking about the people in the country. When hes talking about norway or norwegians, hes talking about norwegians. Matt sometimes i think trump just met with norway and that was the first thing he thought of, because, he said some things that are weird. Winfrey okay, so polls are showing that respect for the United States is eroding around the world. Do you care what the world thinks of the United States . Jennifer absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. Matt how many people believe chinas sitting at home right now and theyre like, man, i wonder if i make this decision, will it hurt the u. S. . Will the u. S. People like this decision . Do you think china asks that question . The only country in this world that asks that question is us. Tim i work with global students that want to come to the United States. Well, ever since trump got elected in 2016, the numbers of incoming global students have gone down. They do not feel safe. Thats a shame. Laura what are they afraid of . Paul trump. Kim yes. Tim theyre afraid of how theyre being theyre going to be treated. I mean, look, turn on the news. Laura i feel safer now than i ever did the last eight years of obama. Oh, my god. Winfrey how do you feel safer . Tell me how you feel safer . Laura well, i feel like i can say Merry Christmas to anyone i want, wherever i want. Jennifer you could anytime tim you could spare me the fake outrage jennifer obama always said Merry Christmas. Maggie i dont think laura has fake outrage but, like, i do think some of the things that you believe, i dont think really make that much sense. Like, i dont think obamas a muslim. Winfrey let her finish telling us why she feels safer. Laura safer means that im not going to have regulations after regulations after regulations that are going to outdo my budget. I dont make any money. Im poor. So when i mean, i dont make, i probably make less than anyone at this table. You know, my heat bills go up. My electricity goes up. I guess it makes me feel economically safer that trumps in office. Winfrey there have been some members of congress, including republicans, questioning his stability and fitness for office. What do you think of that, and do you believe he has the temperament to be president . Matt we see one side of him outside of the office. We dont see what happens in the office. And what we see coming out of the office is results. So his temperament and his intellects got to be high enough to create results. Lauren mmmm, what what results . Matt what results . The economy, Supreme Court justice, 90plus regulations taken off. Tom isis. Matt isis being defeated. Jennifer i believe that he does not have the temperament. I do agree the economy is great, but i dont agree that it is okay to tweet the way that he does, getting in a war with north korea, my buttons bigger than your button. Winfrey is that an incident that you think speaks to him not being fit to be president . Jennifer yes yes. I think its a crazy game. Its an ego game, and i just want a president who cares more about america than his own ego. Tom trump is a counter puncher. Kim jongun came out with his, hey, ive got the nuclear button. Trump is a counterpuncher. Hes going to say, guess what . Mines bigger than yours. Its just who he is. Jennifer i know, but it is, like, playground antics of my dad can beat up your dad. Winfrey this is whats really interesting to me. What i got from the group the last time, and actually has helped me in listening to, you know, all reports in the media, is that, you all actually hear things differently. That you are listening in a different way. Lauren we do hear things differently. We say things differently. We can hear it in different ways, but that doesnt mean were going to agree. Im never going to agree that bullying, kicking a sleeping bear, is a good idea. If that bear is going to wake up and blow your country up if you threaten it . For gods sake, find a better way. Kailee i just dont know how you can read some of those tweets and see how far apart they are from each other, sometimes only minutes, and think that youre dealing with someone whos competent and rational and intelligent. To me, theyre just, theyre all he does is bully people. Thats literally all he does. Tom but thats because you hate him. Kailee i dont hate him. Tom you do hate him. Kailee i dont agree with his beliefs. That doesnt mean that i hate him. Tom you passionately hate him. Kailee id argue that you hate liberals. Tom i do. Kailee yeah. Winfrey why do you hate liberals . Tom i think that their tactics are divisive, and i think their tactics are destructive to this country. Lauren us . Us liberals who are at the table . Tom no, im saying that, that winfrey liberals. Youre, youre generalizing. Tom correct. We had a discussion online about the inheritance tax, and it was, it was pretty interesting, that who thinks that all of the money that your parents saved all their lives should go to the government . Jennifer yeah, i, and i agreed with you. Tom i know you did. I know, because we saw our parents struggle and go from poverty to save, and all the struggles, all the eating at home, not eating out, not going on vacations, not going to the movies, not doing any of those things, so that they could save and have a nest egg. And then some people think its okay, i want that money to go to the government because they can spend it better. Maggie just as a comment the inheritance tax kicks in, used to kick in at 11 million, and so by the time that you get to that tom for a couple. Maggie okay, 5. 5 million. By the time that you get to that amount of money tom what does the government do to deserve the money that your parents scraped together their whole lives and saved . Lauren whoa, anger. Tom what do they . What does the government do to deserve that . Lauren do you feel bullied right now . Maggie well, i think that tom is aggressive in how he talks, but over time, in america, we have become more unequal. And one of the ways to make it so that we become more equal is to make sure that the richest people pay more in taxes when they die. Winfrey as heated as their arguments got in person, it was just as bad in their online forum. When we come back, the issue that nearly broke up the group the me too movement. This cbs sports update is brought to you by the lincoln motor company. At the genesis open at Riviera Country Club outside of los angeles, bub that watson shot a final round 69 to win for the first time in two years. At the daytona 500, the checkered flag belonged to austin dillon. In college basketball, wichita, duke, and chicago were all victorious. For more sports news and information, go to cbssports. Com. Jim nantz reporting from the riviera. Next chapter some moments can change everything. You cant always predict them, but you can game plan for them. For 150 years, generations of families have chosen pacific life for retirement and Life Insurance solutions to help them reach their goals. Being ready for wherever life leads. Thats the power of pacific. Ask a Financial Advisor about pacific life. Everythings fine. A lot happens on your wooden surfaces. Luckily, no one cleans and kills germs better than clorox disinfecting wipes. Winfrey when we traveled to grand rapids, michigan a few weeks ago to follow up with 14 people for a roundtable conversation, we saw the continuation of a bitter, partisan undercurrent in a part of the country known for civility and manners. To our surprise, the group we had assembled six months earlier kept talking long after we left, mostly in a private Facebook Chat group. They took on some of the biggest issues of the day, like immigration and tax reform, and were less interested in some of the staples of cable news, like russian meddling in our election and the mueller investigation. But one subject nearly broke them apart for good. Jeff there were some tense moments in that group. I mean, lets be honest. There were some really tense things. Winfrey Jeff Vanderwerff is a fourthgeneration farmer and loyal republican. We visited him this past fall. With 2,000 acres to oversee, he doesnt have time to get together with the group, but is active in their facebook thread. Jeff you know what . Sometimes, you just need to hit the mute button and walk away for a little while. And, you know, some days it seems like its really productive and we could actually discuss issues, discuss policy, ideas, how they impact us. And some days, it kind of descends into the Family Living room. But it is what it is. Tom i think thats a reflection of the passion that all of us have. Right, its true. Tom we all have passion. Winfrey and it gets most heated when they are online. Unlike most americans who use social media to connect with likeminded people and reinforce their opinions, this group uses it to hear each other out. At least, thats the idea, and one reason Matt Wiedenhoeft named it, somewhat optimistically, americas hope. Matt i named it because, the fact that it was still going and everybody was participating. My thought was that if we can legitimately get 14 people to discuss this, why cant that grow to 28, to 56, and just continue to compile and compile . Winfrey were there times im addressing this to you when you thought the group would break up . You wanted to quit . Is there one incident in particular or discussion that stands out . Matt yeah, absolutely, there was a time when i was going to walk away, and i thought the group would be done at this point. Winfrey was this the debate about Sexual Harassment . Yes. Yes. Yes. Wesley i believe it was the comments when trump made about the female senator. He basically said that she would do anything for endorsement. Yeah, yes. Yes. Yes. Winfrey the spark, as is often the case, was a president ial tweet using language that left just enough room for interpretation. The exact tweet was, senator Kirsten Gillibrand would come to my office begging for Campaign Contributions not so long ago. And would do anything for them. how could that start the kind of debate that would make everyone want to leave the group . Matt its how, how you hear it, and how you interpret it. Winfrey so you interpreted that comment from the president as meaning, what . Matt she was willing to do anything at all costs to get the endorsement. Not sexually. Never considered that. That never even entered my mind. Tom me, either. Winfrey and it didnt enter your mind . Laura no. Jennifer but i think its a malefemale thing, though. Matt i asked my wife, my mom, my sister. None of them. Rose it didnt enter my mind. Winfrey it didnt enter your mind . Rose it didnt. Winfrey did it enter your mind . Kim it did not enter my mind. Winfrey it did not. That he was talking about kim that it was about sex. Wesley it entered my mind. Tim it did mine, too. Wesley it entered my mind, because he has a behavior of saying outlandish things like this. So jennifer and, and thats the thing. If he had not spoken about women in the past that way, then i would have perceived it just like you did. Matt the problem i had wasnt the comment or the way, the fact that you guys interpreted it differently. Its the fact that you wanted me to denounce it, or i felt the same way. Jeff matt, ill, ill differ with you slightly, is i read it and i kind of went laughs because i, in my mind, i knew exactly what he was saying. Winfrey okay, i want you to clarify. You said. Jeff unfortunately, i thought, okay, hes probably making that in a sexual innuendotype manner. Winfrey you felt that . Jeff that was how i, that was how i read it. Thats my opinion. Winfrey in a tense online argument about that tweet, and the larger issue of Sexual Harassment, Lauren Taylor repeatedly challenged some of the conservative men to condemn the president s treatment of women. It did not happen. Jeff it was similar to a later discussion about roy moore. And it was, damned if you do and damned if you dont, because, you know, did i think the comment was appropriate . No, i didnt think the comment was appropriate. Did i think the whole roy moore situation was appropriate . No, it was completely inappropriate. But the problem was, i felt, sitting in that group, like the gun was pointed at me and it was you will denounce. As a trump supporter, you will throw him under the bus and walk away, or you condone everything he does. Matt this is what im talking about. Jeff and that was what made you say this is what, what are we doing here . Winfrey so, for those of you who are not trump supporters, can you hear what jeff just said . Can you hear that . Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Winfrey you hear that . What jeff and matt have said . Lauren can i respond to that . That was me, who needed to hear from you that you would side with women. I think that, the way it was heard by you was that i wanted you to denounce trump. I dont think you should have to denounce a person that you believe in, but i do need to know that men will take Sexual Assault and abusive language and the treatment of women really seriously. And when the women in the group are saying, please, will you let us know that you understand this . Please, will you stand up with us . And get no answer, we were ready to walk away, too. Winfrey but would you agree with his assessment and his assessment that you were requesting that they either denounce what he had said or lauren yeah. I didnt want you to denounce trump. Im so sick of trying to get people to denounce trump. When women come out and say theyve been sexually assaulted, or me too, take us seriously. And when you say that you need proof, tell us what that means. What proof would be good enough for you to actually assure us that you care . Matt then vice versa. You need to tell us what you mean by standing up, because i have a daughter. And if somebody ever touched her, i think you know what the outcome would be. If somebody, if they sexually abused my mom, my sister, you, and i knew about it, you know what the outcome would be. Im always standing there. So the assumptions that men dont stand with women, we dont know what more we can do. We dont know. I mean, tell us. You, i mean, literally. Im not necessarily going to go march with you. Jennifer why not wesley i think we can lead by our actions. Winfrey i dont think a lot of women are asking for you to march. Theyre just asking to be heard. Matt and im willing to listen. Jennifer i think that for me, it wasnt so much about trump, as lauren said. Its the bigger issue. Im a me too, and so, that is very hot button for me. Now, had you talked to me like you just did right here, i would have said, okay, that makes sense. But again, were on a thread thats moving really, really quick, and things are being said, and people are, like, just looking at it, misinterpreting. And thats what keeps happening, is were misinterpreting each other. Winfrey one person who hasnt been touched by the movement is the president himself. During the campaign, we are all aware that some 20 women accused him of inappropriate sexual behavior. There was the access hollywood tape, of course. What do you all think about that . Lauren makes me rage. Wesley its a reflection of the people. Winfrey maggie . Maggie i think probably part of the reason that the me too movement is happening is because we elected somebody who so many women said sexually assaulted him. There was a videotape. To me, its just, its horrible. I dont think people who do that should be in power. Lauren its disgusting. Jennifer and it sends a message to everybody else. Thats the problem. It sends this message that its okay. And its not okay. Winfrey do you think the president is held to a different standard when it comes to this issue of Sexual Harassment . Daniel yeah, the question is, are these accusations credible . Theres been multiple reports of foundations funding lawsuits. Like, they encourage women to take up lawsuits against President Trump. Winfrey okay, i want to hear what tom has to say about this. Tom i think they should. I think they should bring their case to court. If they have evidence that he did this, bring it to court. Luntz you are their voice. You will be heard. Winfrey conservative pollster frank luntz, who first assembled the group for us, joined us for our second roundtable. Winfrey is there anything that was said by the group, that stood out to you . Any words or phrases that we should be listening for . Anything in particular . Luntz the word that stood out was actually denounce. That you have to denounce a politician if they said something. You have to denounce. Sure, people should be held accountable. But denouncement is divisive. And denouncement is the kind of Political Correctness that so many people reject today. Winfrey did the conversation that we hear, is it representative of conversations happening across america . Because youre all over. Luntz theres no difference around that table than what you would hear in any place of work, in peoples dining room tables, even in College Campuses across the country. Its the same kind of give and take, the same kind of frustration and anxiety. The difference is that the people in michigan really want to listen to each other. Winfrey what do you all think youve accomplished with this group . Lauren i dont have access to trump voters outside of this group. In fact, during the election, i pretty much deleted everybody who, who believed in the values that trump espoused. So this group has helped me to understand perspectives that i would not have had access to. And so ive been able to take that out to my friends who dont have access to trumpers, and they come back and say, hey, i really learned a lot. Thats huge. Because everybody wants to feel understood, but its quite a different thing to want to understand. And i think most of us have gotten that out of this. Jennifer yeah, i agree. Winfrey what have you gotten out of it . Matt heartache. laughter dead phone batteries. laughter this is a good group of people. You guys really are. And i understand everybodys set in their ways. Its, its, its not the 80 that we will never change, that were just never going to agree on 80 . So 20 , we need to figure out a way to come together on. Jeff you know, i think if we really get down to it, those of us that are on the right side of the equation, were not always, what, we dont always want to be defined by Mitch Mcconnell and paul ryan. And the folks on the left, they dont always want to be necessarily defined by Chuck Schumer and nancy pelosi. Jennifer not at all. Jeff because there are positions that those groups hold that arent real congruent with what a lot of us think sometime. Tom agreed, 100 . Lauren thats right. Jeff and you know, maybe thats our fault for letting the parties go the way they have and the platforms that have been created. But ultimately, its going to be up to us if we want to fix it or not. What does oprah say about reports she might seek Political Office . Are you kidding me . Go to 60minutesovertime. Com. Sponsored by lyrica. I look like most people. But on the inside, i feel chronic, widespread pain. Fibromyalgia may be invisible to others, but my pain is real. Fibromyalgia is thought to be caused by overactive nerves. Lyrica is believed to calm these nerves. Im glad my doctor prescribed lyrica. For some, lyrica delivers effective relief for moderate to even severe fibromyalgia pain. And improves function. Lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions, suicidal thoughts or actions. Tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worse depression, unusual changes in mood or behavior, swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or blurry vision. Common side effects dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain, swelling of hands, legs and feet. Dont drink alcohol while taking lyrica. Dont drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. Those whove had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. With less pain, i can do more with my family. Talk to your doctor today. See if lyrica can help. Whitaker 50 seasons of 60 minutes. 28 years ago tonight, steve kroft reported from the restricted zone around the site of the Nuclear Accident at chernobyl, ukraine. In a haunting report, he explored the abandoned city of pripyat. Kroft it was home for 45,000 atomic workers and their families. Kroft today, pripyat is a Nuclear Ghost town. The only sign of life is the music piped in continuously to keep the decontamination crews that have to be here from going crazy. Whitaker im bill whitaker. Well be back next week with another edition of 60 minutes. When you have a cold, stuff happens. [ dog groans ] [ coughs and sneezes ] nothing relieves more symptoms than alka seltzer plus maximum strength liquid gels. Does your moisturizing romine does. An mvp . Aveeno® skin relief. With oat oil and natural shea butter, it softens very dry skin and lasts for 24 hours. Aveeno®. Its a game changer. Captioning funded by cbs and ford. We go further, so you can. Captioned by Media Access Group at wgbh access. Wgbh. Org previously on celebrity big brother. Ariadna wasnt runnerup. She was running the house. And her goal was to take shannon out. Id rather have shannon gone. I know what i have to do. Its to send shannon home first. Everybody was james was in on plan. My whole group is to work together. It wasnt a bigtime shock that he joined her on block. I have nominated you, james and shannon. Nothing personal. Youre the biggest competitors. This is my decision. With a delicious helping of power on the menu james