Transcripts For KQED Charlie Rose 20240622 : vimarsana.com

KQED Charlie Rose June 22, 2024

Died during slavery thats the end of your arc as an individual human being thats the end of your arc, you lived and died as an enslaved person. Black folks lynched and killed in this country in the red summer, thats the end of their arc. Theres no broader, bigger justice. Rose we continue with the escape of notorious Drug Cartel Leader el chapo. Heres the cbs with scott pelley reporting on the incident today. The small two foot hole in the ground is the exit guzman used for his great escape. Before 9 00 p. M. Saturday, he stepped into his shower in his maximum security cell and never came out. According to mexican police, he climbed down a 30foot ladder to enter a 5foot tall escape tunnel complete with lighting and ventilation and a motor cycle on rails to carry digging equipment. It extended about a mile to a construction site south of the prison. When i heard the news, i was quite frankly, shocked but yet not surprised. James dinkins former head of Homeland Security investigations was one of the americans who helped capture guzman in february of last year. While they have a lot of information about him, he also knows what information they have about him. So theyre back to the drawing board and starting from scratch in many ways. Gzmans Sinaloa Cartel is the largest in mexico worth about 3 billion, controlling almost half of the Illegal Drugs flowing from mexico to america, from rp marijuana to cocaine and heroin and methamphetamines. Authorities contribute 10,000 murders to el chaposbgang hundreds of those in the u. S. Guzmans use of tunnels both to escape routes and transport of drugs is legendary. Very tight. Bill whitaker took a tour of the complex for 60 minutes. This is is tough. He used one as a safe house days before he was cap clawrd last year. As the police and military continue their frantic search just across the border in laredo texas county sheriff is on high alert today. We will not let him come on this side and if he does, hes going to get arrested. Thats the bottom line. Rose a remarkable new book of the escape of a Drug Cartel Leader when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose Tanehisi Coates is here. He is a national correspondent, editor and blogger for the atlantic magazine. He writes about africanamerican identity and racism in the United States. His cover story, the case of reparations last june, sparked a national debate. His latest book is called between the world and me. It is written in the form of a letter to his 14yearold son. I am pleased to have him at this table for the first time. Welcome. Thanks so much, charlie. Rose its a pleasure, it really is. Id like to talk biography first, because this is about you know tell me about growing up in baltimore, about family, about influences, about shaping identity. Yeah, well, i was very fortunate. I have six brothers and sisters total. I lived in a household in west baltimore, right across the street from the mall where the disturbances in baltimore started earlier this year. You know the world you grow up in, what you know in terms of what you go out and see and then theres, you know the world thats on tv. And the world that i knew was one in which there was a great deal of violence out in the neighborhood, violence shaped the social customs of folks and where a kind of larger violence that was not as obvious, was not, you know, somebody pulling out a gun, was not five boys jumping you, but a larger societal values shaped the aspects of folks in my community. The thing i thought of when i wrote my first book and this book, i lived in a household where i had a mother and a father. This was not the typical profile for most my friends. I had a mother and father who both worked, who were at that point very very educated. I had the basics covered in terms of my food, clothing et cetera. Yet, despite all that when i went out into the world and left for school every day, i confronted all the sort of things that all the other boys and girls in my neighborhood confronted. Rose which was the risk of violence . All the time. Constant, constant, constant. You know, its the very Little Things which, as a child, i have to tell you, i took at normal, but, you know now i look back and its insane. For instance, how many people do i walk with going to school . I think of that all the time when alan iverson came into the n. B. A. , why does he need a possie . I understand exactly. He had come from a place where it was quite clear he needed security around you because you never knew what somebody might do to you. Rose growing up, did you think im going to do what with my life . I had no idea. Rose really . I had no idea. I knew what i liked but i did not i had no idea what i liked might actually be a career because, as i was instructed, what you did with your life or how successful you were in life was basically determined by how well you did in school. I was not a particularly highperforming student at all. So, as i write about in the book, i was kind of caught between two things. Even as i talked to you about these rules for keeping yourself out of danger, i wasnt the best at that either. I wasnt the best at street life either. I certainly was nobodys thug or anything like that but at the same time i cant say i even had the security of being a nerd and great at school. I didnt have that either. So i had no idea what was going to become of me, and that, too added to the kind of fear i remembered. Because for young black boys growing up in west baltimore in that period, and i suspect growing up in our cities today, school is not just, you know will i get into harvard or not. Its not how far up the ladder. Its will i go to jail or not will i be shot or not. Its a matter of life and death. Thats the way parents talked to kids when i was a child and that was the message we took in. Rose is it true today in baltimore . I dont know. I suspected it and, you know, i have been asked about baltimore quite a bit, but i want to be very clear, i havent lived in baltimore in 20 years. But from what i can tell and from what ive seen when i go back to visit family, i strongly suspect. I just want to high light this. The video of the woman beating on her son the young man who she caught rose and everybody is praising for her installing discipline and we need more parents like that. Yes, but thats fear. She said, i dont want him ending up to be another freddie gray. Rose shes afraid. Very much. So she wants him to go home where he can be safe and protected. Thats very familiar with me. Rose thats commonly called the talk parents give their children, and they say youve got to stay away from where violence might happen. Right, right. Rose and more, though. Ight. And africanamerican parents understand the consequences. The idea is that you have to educate your children on how to basically deal with violence. Over the past year weve seen that violence focus on the police and the things the police do and thats part of it. When i was a child and again i suspect its the same. You know for other folks. I know its the same with my son, my child. It doesnt just concern the violence of the police. It concerns the violence of the neighborhood. Africanamerican neighborhoods are, on balance, much more violent than other neighborhoods. Rose and why is that . I think that goes right back to what i was trying to write about in the case of reparations. Africanamericans, you know, after enslavement, after that period did not walk out of the chains and the labor and the cotton field and immediately walk into america. In fact, they suffered 100 years of segregation. The thing i focused on was housing segregation. This is very important because housing segregation restricts where you can live obviously. You know, it also restricts what you can do with your money because housing is so central to wealth in this country. It restricts what youre exposed to because your kids can only live in certain neighborhoods and in certain areas. On top of that. All the other administration africanamericans suffered from. Im talking about job discrimination, discrimination in terms of federal programs, discrimination in schools, all of that is piled into one single geographic region and the intability to state that you know, it creates a sense of deprivation. It creates a kind of frustration. You have people who have obvious economic needs. Its not surprising those neighborhoods tend to be more violent than with neighborhoods with other opportunities. Rose you escaped to harvard. Not quite harvard. Rose but for you it was. Thats right, it was. Rose you called it mecca. Yes, i did. Thats what it was referred to because of the long history of how the university has of attracting people like Toni Morrison, for instance. It was an awakening for me, in many ways. Rose . What way . That was probably the first place where i saw black people who were doing a variety of things. And, you know again, i had been aware of that. I was not totally completely deprived. I was not deprived at all. But this was, like the first place where you met black people who would and i feel silly saying this but somebody might say to you like, im going to take a year off and go study in spain. What . Really . You can do that . Rose yeah. It was kind of, like, that actually happens . The world is not as restrictive as you think it is. Just Little Things like that. Having professors from other places. You know, a professor from trinidad, you know. I mean, the very thing i was talking about when i was talking about like what housing segregation deprives you of i had so much exposure at howard university. To just, you know, completely another way of living, quite frankly. Rose you also thought of being a poet didnt you . I did. I very much wanted to be a poet. I wrote quite a bit probably the first two or three years after i left my parents home. I think, even though i didnt end up being a poet, i think that likely, you know marked my journalism, like that study. Rose it was about command of language or yeah, and i think talking about the economy of language, you know. Rose the economy of language. Its command, too but its economy and that is so crucial in journalism. You know, the ability to Say Something with as much power as you can in the briefest amount of space. Rose you met a friend of mine and yours david carr. I did. Rose your first job as a reporter. Yes. Rose you spoke eloquently about him. Mmhmm. Rose what did he do that made you feel so thankful . Well, david saved me life. As i was telling you before, i think i met david about two years after i had gone to college. Im two years out of baltimore at that point. I was telling you, it was not clear to me that i would make anything of myself. I came from a very, very positive home, you know, where folks really, really encouraged me. Rose but your dad was also a former black panther . He was, and a person with very High Expectations for his children. It was not clear to me that i had the ability to live up to those expectations. It was not clear i had it within me. When i went to work for david at 20 years old, you know, very very young just right out of boyhood, he made it clear that i could go this and i could write and that was possible and i could actually make a living doing that. To me, i could not believe that the essence of the job was you find some interesting question, you call some people up you go meet with people to investigate it, and then you write it down, and then they give you a check for it. Rose he taught you i remember the story i think about most with david is i had caught wind of a story in washington, the sort of story i had to do at my job to actually perform the act of evictions when people would not, you know, pay their rent. There was a service, and they were going around hiring Homeless People to do these evictions. Homeless people making other people homeless. David, you know a brilliant journalist but knew whey had to sell a paper that headline got him right away. He said, you know go, find that story. Go find it. I had no hint of who was doing it or where it was. I with went down to a homeless shelter a few days after he sent me there and i went up to the first person scared out of my mind and said, how do you do evictions. The guy looked at me and said no, but that guy over there does. And that was the story. And he demanded you go out and face that fear of asking people awkward questions. He was very good about that. Rose then atlanta came next . No, i started working with david in 99. I worked a series of really not fun jobs. I think i lost three straight jobs and came to the atlantic in 2008, through david, by the way who got me that job too. Rose he knew James Bennett . Thats exactly it he knew James Bennett. He told james, you should take a look at this guy. Im sorry david is not here to see all this. Rose me, too. He was such an often guest on this program. He just had something unique about the ability to go right to the core even if everybody else was somewhere else he knew where it was. He did. Rose why is what youre doing resonating so much and so deeply with people like Toni Morrison . That, i cant answer. I dont know. What i can tell you is that i think this i think certain aspects of africanamerican humanity, and anger is one of those aspects are not allowed to be aired in public the same way with other people. I think there is great fear how black people talk about their anger, how they talk about their hatred of certain things. I think that makes people very, very uncomfortable. Rose you also think though, and help me understand, and i dont want to define you i want you to define yourself, in a sense that there is built in to the establishment in america an understanding that building on slavery, that what we have is people who feel empowered to do violence to the body of other people. And i select those terms violence and body, directly from reading you. Yeah, i do think that. Rose it gives them power and control. Yeah, and i think we have ways of covering that, you know even for people as they do it. One of the things i try to make clear repeatedly is any term you think is innocuous or a euphemism that relates to race and policy on race and black people ultimately comes back to violence and doing violence to africanamerican bodies. For instance, you take something that seems terribly abstract and disconnected is the data over affirmative action. Leave aside what you think of the policy, but the africanamericans trying to get the advantages for their kids are trying to get them in the hopes that they improve their station and grow up somewhere thats not like where they grew up. Behind that is not just i dont want you to grow up poor working class, or whatever. Its almost always, i dont want you to have to walk out the door and have to look and watch your back the way i did. Rose and thats why youre writing this letter to your son. Yes. Rose it brings me to a special point here. It is still very much with us, this act of violence against the body your terms. Mmhmm. Rose you have basic terms in how you see that from the president. Probably. Rose well probably. You had debates with him in the white house thats true. Rose exactly. Yes. I think the president reflects, you know in his Public Comments and to the extent that weve had this debate this time, a kind of optimism very much rooted in the africanamerican experience. I think, you know the notion of hope, the notion that it will be better tomorrow is almost or maybe not even almost religious within the africanamerican community. A lot of that comes out of the church, you know, and the aspect or the belief that good and justice ultimately does win out at the end and there is a sense of inevitable progress. The quote that Martin Luther king used to use and that the president now uses the arc of the moral universe runs long but bends toward justice. Rose you dont believe that . No. I hope it bends that way. Rose but you do not believe that . No, i see no reason to be assured that it does. This comes out of my own beliefs about the world and the natural world. If you were, you know, say an africanamerican, you know, who was enslaved in this country and died during the period of slavery, thats the end of your arc as an individual human being, thats the end of your arc. You lived and died as an enslaved person. Black folks who were lynched and killed in this country say during the red summer, thats the end of their arc. Rose what happens then . Theres no broader bigger justice. Rose and what about people who were killed by acts of Police Violence today . Thats the end of their arc. The arc ended right there as a physical human being. When aragon was choked out on staten island, thats the end of his body. Whatever great thing will come out of it he wont see it. Assuming some great reform comes out of his death rose are you speaking for him . No, its just my belief about the world. I dont believe theres an afterlife that hes going to look down and rose and youre atheist too. Yes, and i think that informs a great deal my feeling on this. If you can get that then you can get to the pain of whats actually happening. Martin luther king was shot and killed and thats it. Thats it. Rose and your hero, malcolm x was shot and killed. Yes. Rose and if i were to say to you malcolm was killed by black people. Mmhmm. Rose if i were to say the case that resonated with you is a very good friend of yours yes, was killed by africanamerican police. Rose but that doesnt matter. Right. Rose whats relevant is he was a black man not who shot the gun . Yes, and he was living in a system that cast him into a black racism. Rose black on black violence you dont want to hear that . I can hear it. I have no problem hearing it. Take these guys with malcolm x he shouldnt have been in the fight. He should have been a senator or a governor. He never should have been in the conversation to the very fact that he had to be out there cannot be taken away from the context of White Supremacy. The fact my friend prince jones was gunned down cannot be subtracted from the fact he was mistaken for another black person who was, in fact, a suspected criminal. The reason why is they were boat black and there are certain presumptions made about that. Attend of the day it doesnt matter who the agent is. Its a broad systemic thing. Rose you believe and write eloquently th

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