Nuclear weapons in 1994 based on a commitment by the United States, the united kingdom, and russia guaranteeing ukraine easte ukraines territory. I think kim jongun looks at this and says Nuclear Weapons are the only way to guarantee the survival of my regime. Then kurt an dedersen and a k at his book, shofantasyland h america went haywire. Thats true of science or thats true of whatever. In america, we had so dely ji delegitimized all those gate keepers and gone to an extreme of liberty and democracy that your opinion, your belief, your hunch, your feeling in your gut is equal to or superior to anybodys fact. The attack in manhattan, bob gates, and Kurt Andersen when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. We begin tonight with a cbs evening news and the developing story of the attack in Lower Manhattan yesterday. That attack left 8 people dead and 12 injured. Sayfullo saipov was in a wheelchair handcuffed and shackled. Police say the attack had been in the works for a long time. Reporter late this afternoon, federal prosecutors filed two federal charges against the suspect, sayfullo saipov. Alleged terrorists like saipov view the city as a prime target for their hatefilled crimes. But the thing is for the alleged terrorists, like saipov, they will find in new york city something else. Justice. Reporter according to the court filings, saipov chose october 31st because it was halloween and he believed there would be more civilians on the streets. On one cell phone, authorities found 90 isisrelated propaganda videos and 3800 propaganda images. Saipov is in custody at a nearby hospital and apparently talking to police. Saipov bragged about what he did and was very pleased with his success. Sources also say police recovered knives from the truck and 10 to 15 pieces of paper, which give isis credit for the attack, saying isis will live forever. We also have a more detailed timeline of the attack. The truck saipov rented turned onto a Lower Manhattan bike path at 3 04 p. M. Striking bikers and pedestrians. He hit and killed five others before he crashed into a school bus. Oh, my god reporter that crash which injured four, including two children, was caught on cell phone video. Sources tell us said saipov said that was an accident. He wanted to continue down the bike path and over the brooklyn bridge. He was arrested after being shot by 28yearold officer ryan nash just five years on the force. He shot saipov once. I understand the importance of yesterdays events and the role we played. Im grateful for the recognition we have received. Reporter nypd Deputy Commissioner of counterterrorism john miller says theyre still investigating whether the radicalization was assisted. I think we have developed a level of connectivity between him and others who at various times have been the subject of investigations, but were still delving backwards to further identify what was that connectivity and did it have some meaning. Reporter and saipov is being held tonight without bail. The fbi today interviewed an associate of saipov to see what was information he might be. He is not a suspect. Saipov had been on the fbis radar though there was no indication he was planning on attack. We continue with the aftermath of yesterdays terrorist attack in downtown manhattan. Joining me now is fran townsend, the former Homeland Security advisorer to president george w bush. Update me in terms of where we are. Well, charlie, hes being arraigned any minute now on charges in new york city. Hes been talking to the fbi, which was not true this morning. In fact, there are reports that he asked the fbi to hang an isis flag in his hospital room. He was bragging about the attack. We know now that he planned it for several weeks. He went on test runs. There was an individual with him just before he tragically mowed down these people, and theyre looking for that individual who also, charlie, called the suspects cell phone after the attack. So, hes high on the list. The other thing thats going on right now is because of his immigration status you mentioned he got in on this visa. He became a permanent resident alien. It allowed him to sponsor others, what we call chain migration. We are hearing from Law Enforcement sources that he may have sponsored up to nine people. Law enforcement officials are now looking for those nine people because they want to know are those good guys or bad guys. What was his motivation . What were learning about his motivation is it was isis related. He may have had contact with individuals of isis overseas. Theyre looking into that now. He claims to have been selfradicalized, but were learning more, so one of the last things ill say that we learned about what was in the car, we know he got out with this paint ball gun and a bebe gun. Everyone has asked the question why. In the isis playbook, they say get out of the car with knives or guns. There were knives recovered in the car. When he hit the school bus, the knives went out of where he could reach them quickly, so he got out of the car with these fake guns. If he got out of the car, he might have tried to kill some people. He intended to go from where he was, if he hadnt had the car accident, to the brooklyn bridge. It is clear that this is a terrorism investigation, a terrorism incident. What is unclear to me is how much contact did he have with isis overseas, but it may very well be this the bleed out that we expected. When isis is feeling pressure in places as they have, in places like iraq and syria, theyre going to act out in other places in other ways. This may be exactly what happened yesterday here in new york. What can we do as a society to prevent this . Clearly, the best intelligence is a very good way. Right. If you know its coming, then you can do more. If you know who is likely to commit an act, you can do more with surveillance and everything else. Thats right. Youve got to have good intelligence. That depends on a Good Relationship with communities. A person with intent to do that might be living in. What else . Well, you know, we protect infrastructure and Public Places as best we can. Think of areas in times square around the 9 11 memorial, but this bike path that runs the length of the west side highway, the entire length of practically manhattan, thats impossible. It is right next to a six or eightlane highway, so things like that are really impossible to protect. You take a cut at that in different ways. The nypd had reached out after the nice promenade truck that mowed down people there in france. Reached out to 148 different truck rental companies. Just like when we saw the backpack bomb that was a liquid bomb. They reached out to the suppliers. You try to chip away at the threat in a number of different areas. The other thing, as you mentioned charlie, you look at immigration. You look at communities. Oftentimes when people emigrate from muslim countries, their centralization in the United States is the mosque. Have we made any progress in the effort to offer an alternative argument to someone who is likely to be susceptible . No, i dont think we have. Look, i also dont think in fairness, multiple administrations, including the Bush Administration, which i was a part of, failed at this. Ive come to the conclusion it doesnt workl coming from a western voice and especially a western government voice. You need credible sources in the region. This is the seat of islam, the site of the two holy mosques in mecca and demmedina. When the new crown prince says hes going to return mecca to a more moderate form of islam, that can have an enormous impact. New York Police Department is as good as it gets on this. Absolutely. Theyre the best. Clearly, the thing you worry about too is copycats. When there was one incident in europe, there would be another incident in another city. Is there anything we can do about that . Not really. I mean, look, what you want to do is share the information, what youre learning in realtime. The nypd is very good about pushing that information out to other major metropolitan areas and police departments, and you want to understand. Its why looking for the nine people he may have sponsored is important. It is why finding the guy who was with him just before mowing people done is important. What you want to understand is is there a network . What prompted him at that point in time to commit this crime . I do worry about copycats because we have seen it so many times before. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Fran townsend. When we come back, a conversation with robert gates, the former secretary of defense for george w. Bush and for barack obama. Stay with us. Robert gates is here. Hes had a long and very distinguished career in public service. He was director of the cia under president george h. W. Bush. He is the only secretary of defense in u. S. History to remain in that office by a newly elected president. Im pleased to have him back at this table. Welcome. Thank you, charlie. You just returned from china. Tell me whats going on over there because economist magazine cover the most powerful man in the world, chexi jing ping. Theres a case to be made for that in terms of control at home, a booming economy, and strategies that are aimed at expanding chinese influence very broadly throughout asia, africa, and the middle east. The whole one belt, one road initiative, this trillion Dollar Initiative to build ports and airports and Communication Systems and railroads and so on all across central asia and Southeast Asia and east africa and so on, so i think in military terms thats not true. The United States president remains the strongest in the world in that respect, but in terms of power at home and sort of an expansive policy, i think you could make that case. Do you make the case also based on whats called the lucidities principle, that when theres an established power, they end up in war . I dont accept that inevitabl inevitably. Im familiar with the book that describes this trap, and i think that there is no geostrategic reason for the United States and china to be adversaries. Competitors, yes. Rivals, probably. But addereversaryieadversaries, so, but it requires management on the chinese side and our side to avoid it from heading that direction. Do you think the chinese want to do that, that there is a commitment on their part to be as careful as they possibly can . I think so. The last thing they need is a military conflict with the United States. They have a lot of issues at home. I mean, i talked about all the good things. Right. Powerful things for china, but they face a lot of problems at home from the environment to this transition from a rural investmentbased economy to a consumerbased one. Theyve had as many people move from rural areas to cities as the entire populations of britain, france, and germany. 200 million people. In the history civilization, more people have risen from poverty to the middle class in chin china. Thats right, but the result of that is the partys only claim to legitimacy is not communism as an ideology, but an improved standard of living for the chinese people. As long as the chinese leaders can deliver that, theyre probably safe, but thats the only basis of the legitimacy of the regime at this point. That was a very Central Point in the three and half hour speech, the supremacy of the communist party. Thats right. One of the things shes doing is reestablishing discipline both within the party and those outside the party, companies, businesses, the population as a whole and the military, especially. The party is the be all end all. Second question, what do they think of us today . I think that i think that until 2008 they probably were envious of our sustained Economic Development and our economic model, and i think one of the things that a lot of people may not appreciate is the degree to which our financial crisis in 2008 and 2009 discredited our economic model in the eyes of a lot of people around the world. That lingers. That is still there. It had such repercussions around the world. Absolutely. And i think they see the United States i think they see some opportunities right now because we are so divided as a country and because our government is so divided, so its very difficult for us to do big things, whether its to fix our infrastructure or to have big Foreign Policy initiatives, like they have underway, much less some of the other domestic issues. They see our paralysis right now as providing some real opportunities. Some people say while we have been mired down in afghanistan and the middle east, they have simply not had those distractions to focus on developing at home. Well, they have been able to focus at home, and i think that one of the serious consequences of now having been at war for 16 years is that it has contributed to this sense of impatience and exhaustion on the part of the American People in terms of engagement internationally and sort of a sense of why cant we focus on our problems here at home and not be so involved in the rest of the world. Why do we have all these troops around the world and so on. And why cant we begin to fix the very obvious problems that we see every day in this country. So, i think its not so much that the chinese see that we have been distracted by those wars. Although, it certainly has taken a lot of time and treasure and lives, but that it has really ive always believed that the patience of the American People for International Engagement is very limited, and the only time weve been able to do it effectively is when we have effective president ial leadership because the americans are not instinctively internationalists. They really just want to tend their own garden, if you will. America is a good place to tend. And ive also been very leery about the use of force abroad because not whenever we have to for our own national security, but president s need to understand that theres a limited appetite in this country for sending troops into war. President obama sought to do that, didnt he . I think he did. May have gone too far . Well, part of the problem that i think weve faced is everybody when we get into a war, everybody who is advising the president to do it always says it will be really short. Well get this done real quick and then well be out of there. More often than not thats not the way it turns out, so i think the chinese have been able to take advantage of this american impatience International Involvement to gain a march on us in a lot of places. Have we lost respect around the world . I think so. I think so. And i think for two reasons. First, what we have already talked about, the financial crisis in 2008 2009. And i think second our paralysis here at home. You mean in washington . Yeah. And our inability politically to do anything big, to deal with our public schools, to deal with infrastructure, to deal with immigration, a whole host of issues, and just we cant get anything done. So, i think i spoke earlier of people questioning our economic model. I think there are a lot of people now around the world who are questioning our political model. Maybe the way the americans do it isnt so hot because look at them. Maybe this kind of more authoritarian state capitalism that you see in russia, that you see in china, that you see elsewhere, maybe thats the way to go. So people around the world are looking for a model. They say, well, look at the United States. Theyre in paralysis. Look at china. Theyre in control. And theyre expanding robustly. Look at these thousands of miles of highspeed rail theyve built and all the bridges and airports. Look at the difference between Laguardia Airport and the airport in shanghai. I think this is not your irrecoverable. I think we can get back there, but only if we begin to fix our International Political problems. Whats going to happen in north korea . Well, i think that what weve seen is i think the president s got this right. We have seen basically the failure of a quarter of a century of policies. The Clinton Administration made a deal with the north koreas. The North Koreans cheated and walked away from it. The Bush Administration tried to do a deal with the North Koreans, offered some inducements. The North Koreans werent interested. President obama tried strategic patience. The result of all of this is combined with an acceleration of their Nuclear Testing and missile testing under kim jongun is stay we face a north korea that either has a Ballistic Missile with a Nuclear Warhead on it that can reach the United States or soon will. So what do we do now . First of all, i think a dose of realism is in order. The notion that kim jongun can be persuaded at virtually no cost to give up his Nuclear Weapon weapons, i think, is a fantasy. He looks at gaddafi who gave up his nuclear program. Hes dead. Saddam had no Nuclear Weapons. Hes dead. His regime is gone. Ukraine gave up almost 2,000 Nuclear Weapons in 1994 based on a commitment by the United States, the united kingdom, and russia guaranteeing ukraine ukraines territorial i