Nservative voice of the view, defending her politics, even as the president attacks her fathers legacy. I was never a fan of john mccain, and i never will be. With senator mccains brand of statesmanship increasingly feeling like something from a, bygone eat do the mccains say now . Firing line with ssMargaret Hoover is made le by. Additional funding is provided by. Corporate funding is provided by. Meghan mccain and cindy mccain, welcome to the firing line. Thank you thank you. But, you know, candidly, i always want to saylike, we are personal friends, as well, and im a huge fanf firing line and grew up watching it, so i think its important to, you know. To disclose the fact that that were friends and come on this show, but, um, you know, its such an iconic brand. Well, im grateful to have reth of you here because it has now been slightly han a year since the country lost senator mccain. And he was a stalwart defender of Democratic Values around the world,e United States senate, a candidate for the presidency of the unit states, and a war hero. And i think about john mccains legacy every day, and i wonder just in the year since his passing, mrs. Mccain, what you feel the public hasen goight about your husbands legacy. I think theyve gotten most of it right. I mean, people tell me every day theres not a dath passes that someone doesnt say to me, we miss him. S we missed gnity, his respect. We missed his ability to bring people together. Theres a wide divide right now, and he really he was the one that really kept a lotis together during the years he was mo the senate. For me, i miss and bipartisanship, as well, which is i know not mething everyone always brings to it, but he was really funny, and hei didnt takelf seriously. Theres a picture of him giving manu raju, whos a capitol hill reporter, the devil ears behind his head. He always found levity and friendship in politics. D kennedy was one of his closest friends, obviously joe biden, Joe Lieberman lindgraham, and i miss i miss that it was clegial, that politics was collegl when he was still there. Ea so, i im glad you mentioned ted kennedy because, you know, he had many pieces of legislation, but two of his trademark pieces of legislation were these really histor moments where he reached across the aisle, one with ss feingold, and then the other with ted kennedy on one on immigraeform, the other on Campaign Finance reform. And it feels like a bygone era when that kind of legislative collaboration and cooperation can happen. I remember seeing the pictures a of the, clearly, these lines of very different world t views, sittiether intently trying to find a way forward. T andly believe weve seen the last of that. Its so divisive now, and i know for a fact, en though he not here, my husband would be very disappointed in at it is now, what its descend into. Whats happened, structurally or systemically, that you think that has made it impossible to go back to . Wel in my opinion, the social media has made it very difficult for members of congress or members of the senate to work in an efficient nner. In my opinion, i think that when people are so divisive on twitter towards you or with you or whatever it may be, it doesnt help anything, and i think all too often our membersp are ding to itter rather than doing whats right. So, another thing that johnccain was known for is being a maverick. Id like you to take a look one of those maverick moments, perhaps his last, where he turned his thumbs down and voted against overturning the Affordable Care act. [ gasping, applause ] now, tres a backstory to that moment. He risked his life to come back to the capitol to take that vote. Mmhmm, biggest fight i ever got in with him in our life, ever, and i was asngou remember, i was screa at him in the hospital because head just had surgery on his tumor for his brain ncer, and it was dangerous to fly, and i just remember that flight from phoenix to d. C. Is one of the worst moments and experiences of my entire life because i was watching him the entire time rried something was gonna happen, yeah. Did you know how he would vote i didnt. I knew that they were a lot ofg people pressurm. I also knew that he never agreed with the bill if the bill was not written correctly. He stated very clearly he had problems witthe process and the way the system had broken down, that it had been done behind closed doors, that republicans had campaigned on it for years and years. Right. And they werentle o deliver what they had promised the american people. I want you to also listen tout what he said ahat was going on in congress in that time. Lets trust each. Lets return to regular order. Weve been spinning our wheels on too many importanissues because we keep trying to find a way to win without help from across the aisle. We are getting nothing done, my fends. Were getting nothindone do you think regular order can never return, or is it also about leadership . Well, it is about its a gre deal about leadership, but i also because ive been around a long time that washingtons a pendulum. You see it swing one way, and then you see it swing another way. I think were probably gonna have to get through 2020, to be onnest wh you, in my opi its just were too separated right now, not only as parties, t as a country. Why 2020 . Well, i think that thats its either makeitbreakit. Either trump wins or doesnt, or biden wins or doesnt, and thats a hurdle that i think a lot of people see we have tor jump ofore we can fix this, one way or another. One of the things thens mccaintute focuses on is characterdriven leadership. Yes. What is characterdriven leadership mean to you . Well, what it means and what he wanted it, you know, with regards to the instiis about teaching young professionals, midcareer professionals from around the world, bringing them here to the United States and spending a year were not talking rty politics, were talking about making really good decisions for your country or for your community, whatever it may be. Making decisions that maybe arent always the easiest to make. You know, some of the hardest things john ever did were making the right decisions on things. Mrs. Mccain, you said that you have never been prouder of him than when you hear concession speech after the election on november 4th in 2008. I want to watch a moment of what he said. Century ago, president Theodore Roosevelts invitation of booker t. Washington to dine at the white house was taken as an outrage in many quarters. America today is a world away from the cruel and pri bigotry of that time. There is no better ee of this than the election of an africanamerican to the presidency of the United States. Let there be no reason now [ cheers and applause let there be no reason now for any american to fail to cherish their citizenship in this, the greatest nation on earth. A [ chee applause ] he then went on to say he would do everything he could toe helpncoming president , barack obama. And he even, you know, had the privilege of having barack obama eulogize him at his passing. Mmhmm. Mmhmm. How was that relationship . You know, it was it had its moments, yoow, because they disagreed on things, but john believed in the spirit of the debate and believed in the righteousness of the debate. That speech to me, when i read it, because he previewed it for me, ive never heard in probably i will never hear a speech as od as that ever again because it was the right thing to say, and it was the thingth the country needed to hear. Mhmm. Especially with that election. So i was very proud of him. I was always proud of him, but i was very proud of him that night. No you may notthis, but in l98, john mccain appeared on the original firie with william f. Buckley jr. , and he was speaking about toking, and he brought meghan up. Lets take aook. I i read somewhere that, in the last two or three years, the number of leading men who are seen smoking has increased by 400 or 500 over against seven or eight years ago. Is there something we can do about it . Leonardo dicaprio is an 1 object of yearold daughters affection to the degree which i have never experienced. So he smokes, shell smoke. Yeah. Yeah, i mean, this young n has captured the hearts of every 13yearold girl in america, and what does he do throughout the movie . Theyre continuously smoking. I bruce willthe die hard movies hemokes continuously throu those, and im not picking on him or leonardo. I have other problems with leonardo, but. [ laughter ] the fact is. He duced your daughter. Yes. To distraction. You know, he has a website . Anyw, well, thats not surprising. I didnt know that. He has a website . They have a chat room website, my daughter and her friends, so that they can chatou. About leonardo. About leonardo. Its remarkable. Thats what he talked about with william f. Buckley . [ laughter ] okay, everyone. He byay, i do not Smoke Cigarettes and never have, so just s i re scared of my dad. But i did have a huge crush on him. Which means it starts in e home. [ laughter ] listen to how seriously he took you. He was ser tapped in to where you are and what you thought and what you were taking seriously. Yeah, i mean, almost like, sometimes i wish he would have pled me back a little bit, but. [ chuckles ] been a little bit more involved . He, you know, he was wild when he was younger, and he were so much alike in so many ways, and to the point that sotimes it its the goo and the bad. Like, i think people see me on the view setimes and my executive producers like, youre always shooting from the hip, and you jusreact, andse youre intand you believe what you believe, and im like, where do you think i got that one from . So john mccain seems to have a new fan base tay, and its in the democratic party. Mmhmm. Theres a Campaign Going on, and whats really interesting to me is how Many Democrats are invoki his name and his memory mrs. Mccain, what do you think about all these candidates invoking your husbands memory . I think my husband would have rea real chuckle over it, ly do. Yeah. You know, i respect them, and thats very nice that they would use him, you know, and relay their experiences that they had with him. But you havent alwayloved it, meghan. I remember when he was george wallace, when he was accused of being racist for even tempting to run against the first africanamerican candidate, andagain, my mom is much more forgiving than i am, and i remember people taking real low blows and low shotst him, and i also appreciate people respecting and bringing him up, but i also think that maybe if you hadnt demonized him so much and demonized mitt romney so much, maybe ite wouldnt hed the feeding ground for trump because trump didnt just come. It took a long time to get there, so people now show these clips, and he was always looking to reach acrs the aisle, to work alongside he was a tru decent, wonderful man. Im not just saying that because hes my father. D w we have someone who has, i believe, no character, no discipline, has no interest in working with the other side, and i think that it was the beginning of it, if look back now in the past 10 years. Donald trump has raised your dads legacy negatively seven times since his passin what is it that experience personally, when the president i go crazy. I turn into the shehulk. It makes me i get very anemotional and very angry normally have to call you. [ chu or my husband. For me, i just it make me sad. It makes me sad for th president in that way because he never reallynew john. Yeah. He never really knew the kind s man that he is and was. And so that makes because i think he would have learned and probably liked him a great deal. But i also think that, you know, politics is politics. You know, as john say were fair game, the kids arent,ind of thing. Im fair game now. H. Y chuckles ] so, i understand. He taught me great lessons about how to be controlled and not let them get to you. I always called my dad President Trumps kryptonitec se hes like the one man he can that will always be lov and revered in history and looked upon by so many politicians as an icon. And i can sit he with 100 certainty President Trump will be an extremely polarizing, controversial figure who i believe has pulled us into darkness in our country, and i th dad was attempting to pull us into the light. Ms. Mccain, you just said, you ow, you guys are fair game, the kids arent. Meghan said, well, now i am fair game. You know, youre fair game now because youre a cohost of lhe view, a daily politi Television Show that has been called the most important political Television Show in america. What is your experience . cause you really are the only republican on that set i say conservative, because there are other womethat define themselves as republican, and and youre a conservative. And you defend conservative credentials and values every day from that seat. I do. I want to lk at one thing youve also said about it. Okay. And i was trying to explain because one of my producers th morning was saying, why do people love him so much . And i was like, sometimes its not just that they love trump so much, its that they hate the same things trump hate thats whats going on . Who, black people, you mean and im no, i mean who do they hate . Who do they hate . You know what, joy . I ally come here every day openminded, just trying to explain it, and its not a fun job for me eve day. But who do they hate . I know youre angry. You bet im angry. I get that yourengry that trumps president , like a lot of people are, but i dont think yelling at me is gon fix the problem. But being the sacrificial republican every day, im just trying to heres the thing dont feel bad for me. Im paid to do this, okay . Dont feel bad for me. [ ughter ] my finest moment on all of tv. I mean, i think it must feel like youre a sacrificial conservative every day, right . Nlmean, you have to the country is edivided, pretty evenly divided ideologically, right . But youre the only one of those four or five that are espousing a view that a much larger percentage of the country holdsk well, i tts why you and i became friends originally is there just arent that many conservative wen real ones in mainstream media. For me, its interesting thata the meways will allow one conservative on a giant panel acrossll networks, unless youre at fox. Youre allowed one. S and then, thersea of one myopic opinion. And i think thats disingenuous to whats going on, and think for me, i cant stand President Trump, personally. I will not be votingim. I did not vote for him. And even for me, im sort of, like, not socially acceptable enough, and i do have times where d you have end that youre explaining why trump voters support him. I take great pride in the fact that i sort of i did not want tjoin the view at all. I was not interested, and my dad told me to do it. And anything he told me to do, i would do. And so now i take pridin the fact that ive lasted longer than any conservative since elisabet d i was called a mushy rino for most of my career. All of a sudden, im like the queen conservative, d no onesed more surprbout it than i am. Do you worry about the future of t party in a posttrump world . 100 . Do you think the party isg go resonate with young people, people your age and younger . I really worry about it, because and the numbers show this, by the way. Whatever you want to say about the left or people like aoc, they do a real good job of speaking to young people. And i think, for us and i always laugh like,yo g republican groups start at 40. And i think posttrump america, for the party, is gonna be a very, very dark place to rebuild. I mean, i dont know how we b rebuil, cindy, you shook your head. As you think about your children, your grandchildren,an having a Republican Party appeal, this concerns you . It concerns me very much, a ill speak for my own home state, where the party has simply left normal what we would consider normal republicans behind. Until our rty goes back to what we we best at, and that was an open system, an open tent, we invited everybody in, those are the days that i grew up in republican politics, andwe it was thos good years. Prident trump has done some methings that all of us, aan said, its been theyve been controversial, theyve been different from what any other president has done and not in good ways. And yet nobody says anything. Nobody scolds him for what really was bad manrs or whatever you want to cl it, whatever issue it was of the day. I mean, wknow senator mccain would have if he were alive, but why why not anyby else . I dont know. I dont unrstand. I think fear of not being in office or in power. Well, theyre terrified of him, politically, i believe. In do you if your husband were alive and he were standing up to the president , it would give courage to others to do the same . It did before yeah, he gave cover to a lot of people. Mmhmm. I want to ask you about another thing that the ngcain institute focuses on, and thats sex traffic oh, yeah. I mean, this is one of the pillars and priorities of thein mcnstitute, which is associated with Arizona State university and is a think tank. What ignited your passion for this issue . Well, really, a very long time ago, when i brought meghans sister home from ngladesh, she was from Mother Teresas orphanage. And so, several years later, i had an opportunity to go meet Mother Teresa in calcutta, and i did just that. And after i met her and had you know, we had pictures take and all that kd of stuff. I was on my way out to leave the country, but i stopped to bu some sari material for my daughter bridget. And while i was buying it, tre s this kind of rumbling through the floor of the kiosk i was in, and sked the guy behind the counter, and he said, oh, no, its just my family. They live down there. And i looked down, and you could kind of see between the ats, and i could see all these little eyes looking up at me. They were clearly children being kept down there. And it wasnt you know, they werent his. It was just it was one of those things it was the moment i didnt know what ias looking at, i had no idea what this was or whether or not anyone could fix it, kind of is where i was coming from. So it took me years to reallyre fiut not only what it was but what i could do. How big a deal is this . Its epidemic. Its absolutely epidemic. Whats it gonna take to really make a difference, to really make an impact in this fight . A change of attitude, number one. Certainly more awareness, which is what were doing. But more importantly, understanding that this is a simple humanrights issue. Its not simple, but it this is a basic humanrights issue. Thde people are being depri of their freedom. John mccain was a ardent defender of human rights and democraticalues. And you started, on the oneyear anniversary of his passing, a Movement Online called acts of civility. Mmhmm. We did. Whawas that . That was about just what weve been talking about here urving back to civil behavior between not justovernment officials but between people h your nrs, your friends. Want to ask you one more question about joeiden, who was a longtime friend of your dads and your husband. He of course, is running. You earlier said we have to get past 2020 because itll either be President Trump or joe biden. And i get a little, like when you said that, i was like [ knocks ] joe biden. I did the same thing. Because it could be i mean, not to be super nical, but elizabeth warrens coming up fast and hard right now. Right. So, whats it gonna take . I mean, do you in the way that you say its a tgone era, in some ways, to sort of reach acro aisle and to do the kind of jockeying that ted kendy and Russ Feingold did with john mccain, joe biden was part of that era. He was. Has the era bypassed joe biden . I dont think so. Iope not. Its still in there. Mean, joes a lovely not only a lovely person, but he was always a good legislator, inwo terms of how hed across the aisle, how he you have to remember, joe was there before john was, and john learned a great deal from joe. If you could be helpful to joe biden, would you . In the race . Im trying to im gonna y to stay out of it just because it its i im not im not the politician in the family. Its really ghan and her father that were. But so im gonna try to stay out of itbut i do i do like joe biden. Hes a very good friend. He helped us through a verdark time. So, if you could be helpful, would you, at the right time . It depends. I mean, i struggle with it will turn out what kind of candidate he ends up being. You know, i still hope for the moderate, bipartisan joe. I think the question he will have to answer is, will he be pulled to the hard progressive left. I have my limitatis with this, as well, and iant vote for i mean, i would never vote im not voting for a democrat. Ngill probably enup wrin paul ryaor something. You wouldnt vote for joe biden if he were running against trp . It depends how he runs. You know, it depends who he chooses. It depends what his policies are. I want to, like, get there when i get there,ut you dont rule it out, though. I always tell people one man is aively on television berating my beloved father who has passed and another man eulogized him. What would you do . [ laugh] vote for him. I dont know. Again, i have to see, but my love forim and his family and my heartlways beats out my brain, for better or for worse,. In polit always. It was joes wife that introduced john and i. Yes. Jill . I didnt know that. Yeah, and its just theyre so intertwined iour life, and that sometimes what makes me a bad analyst right now, i think, because im so emotionally involved. The pain of grief is you cant explain it until youve experienced it. I never couldve understood it. Joe biden is the most incredible i call him the grief whisperer. The way he interprets pain and grief and loss, ive nev ive met no therapist, analyst,d ce counselor, nothing, that possibly compares to him on it. K and i the countrys in a lot of pain. T nestly, i dont know what i would be like withm. I think i would be in an even darker place. Do you has it gotten easier after the year mark . Ht i thoo, but you just i just miss him so much. I miss his sense of humor. I miss watching you guysna together in se im not trying to make you cry. Oh, youre okay. But its just it never it doesnt get easier, and i dont want people to tnk it gets easier. Because i think theres a lot of stigma about well, youve been through a year, so it should stop being so painful, and its not true for me. For me, its not true. Iv you just learn how to with it. Yes. It is an honor to have both bof you in my life, thah of you here at firing line, and to have you carry the torch and to continue to carry the torch forward for your fathers legacy and for your husbands legacy. Thank you for being on firing line. Thank you. Thank you, marget. Firing line with Margaret Hoover is made possible by. Additional funding is provided by. Corporate funding is provided by. Hello, everyone, and welcome to amanpour company. This holiday season, were dipping back into the archives and looking at some of our favorite interviews from the year, so heres whats coming up. Wve endowed a president , especially in the foreignaffairs area hes most unchecked there. Thats where he has most free rein. He led the office of Legal Counsel under president george w. Bush. Jack goldsmith talks to me about executive overreachnd then and nowbout living in the shadow of jimmy hoffa. Plus. My motive was to stop a wares and save l in the u. K. , whistleblower katharine guns story is the subject o the new film official secrets. She joins to talk about the price she paid for raising the alarm about the iraq war. And. Take a load off, fanny take a loor
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