Tional funding is provided by. Corporate funding is provided by. Mark cuban, welco firing line. Thank you, margaret. Owner of the dallas mavericks, and have invested in more hian 150 Small Businesses as a shark on th Television Show shark tank. And since both of us are sial distancing, youre joining us remotely from dallas. Yes. What is social distancing like for mark cuban . Ah, it could be worse. Lets put it that way. Im glad im not livings with six g a threebedroom apartment any longer. And, you know, i have space here with my family, so you know, it we sti have cabin fever every now and then, but its not so bad. So you were Just Announced to have been chosen for President Trumps Advisory Council to reopen the economy. Edyou know you were going to be seleor this . I found out about an hour before. And so someone had ae a couple weeks ago, said they were looking at doing something. Im like, surev wh i can do. But then i found out that they officially were going to ask me about anour before and then got the news like everybody else. And why do you suppose you were selected . K yw, i go both ways on that. But, you know, i think because have a gel for Small Business and ive been vocal and kind of out front. Ey and i think lso recognize i have a lot of connectivity hto Small Businesses thro shark tank. What advice will you give the administration about how to handle this pandemic and the economic rebooting of the country . Very straightforward adce. Talk to a lot of Small Businesses, talk to people o have lost their job. You know, talking to just the rich people that run the companies is not going to give you near the guidance as talking to people who are the ones struggling the most from this. Because well figure it out. Right . I mean, ill land on my feet. And doesnt matter how much money ive lost. Its the people whove lost their jobs that have the real se. The economy really cant rebound unless this is a bottomup covery. This wont be a topdown recovery, and that will be my so, do you think they are insufficiently listening right now . Look, its really haht now to pass judgment on anybody. Nobody is going to maken a good deciscause we have imperfect information. So, you know, i give him credit for trying, and well see where it goes from here. Ot there are af people on that list, on this Economic Advisory task force you know, more than a hundred. D there are people who have been very complimentary ofhe president ,ho peopleave not been complimentary of the president. Youve been both. I want you to take a look at this. Were about seven weeks into the trump administration. What do you think . Le nership skills. No management skills. Not very good communication skills. But hes obviously had an impact on the economy, so he gets credit for that. I think donald trump has recognized that he can drive the conversation right now and take control of it. And the democrs are just falling right behind, right in place, and letting him drive the conversation. Im not a fan of donaltrumps as president. I havent been for a while. But th said, hes obviously adjusted and adapted, and hes doing his best. Well, its no secretnt that the presi likes people who compliment him. Yeah. J andt want to ask you, earlier this week, President Trump told all the governors of all the states totart putting together robust plans to begin reopening the country on may 1st and suggested that some of them may even be up and running before may 1st. And ive heard you say, the dumbest thing you can do is put a date on it. Yeah. So, my question for you is, is that wise . Do you thi its wise for the president to be gunning for1s ma so, the balance is playing cheerleaderinchief versus executing on different orders. Right . You know, if hes playing cheerleader, great. If he wants to ge people hope and give give people incentives to try to get ready, thats fine. But the reality is, i still think its dumb to set a date, because u cant. We just dont have enough data to make any commitments at all. So, you were on this phone call with many Industry Leaders and the president. G you get the sense that hes balancs role as cheerleader with his role as the person responsible for Public Health . I think hes trying. Ngyou know, i think hes d the best he can. And so, you know but i think at the end of the day, i dont care what the politicians say. I dont care what the media says no disrespect. I care what science sa. I care what my employees think. I care what i think is going to get the best results. And i think ever every citizen of this country has got to do the same thing. You know, maybe in the past, we could defer to our politicians, but we kw how much we trust our politicians now. Right . We know how much, you know i donthink its a game that theyre playing that reallisnt relevant to me at all. Will you tell him you think its dumb to set a date . Will i tell him that . No, theres no point. I got lots of other things to tell him. What will you tell them about sports . Because the president is had said just ast week, im tired of watching baseball games that are 14 years old. Youre one of 16 sports Industry Leaders to join the task force. What are you going to tell him about reopening basketball . Safety first, per end of story. R u know, if our players arent safe, i would nek anybody to do what i wouldnt ask my kids to do. And if i dont feel its safe for kids to participate, im not gonna ask any of my employees, any of the players to paicipate, no exceptions. Lets take a step back. March 11th will be reay remembered to most people as the day of this wakeup call about the pandemic, beit was the day that the World Health Organization declared that covid not just an outbreak, it was a pandemic. It was the day edat President Trump ann european travel restrictions. It was the day that tom hanks tweeted that he and his wife had coronavirus in australia,th and day that the nba suspended the season, indefinitely. Les take a look at that cl that went around the world of you of you at a game against my hometown team, the denver nuggets. Lets take a look. And thats where atus will start. You can see right here the reaction from mark cuban when he got the news looking at his phone. And then he went and staed to discuss it with members of thema vericks organization on their bench. Ha wt concerns do you have . Now that wee not playing games, what about all the people who work here on an hourly basis . You know, well put together a program for them. But, y know, theres ju so many things that go through your head. Right . Itsard to know extly whats right. You know, at that point, you had already started researching pay for those workers. And after e suspension announcement, you said that you would be taking care of paying all arena workersug as tgames were being pyed, even though the season had been suspended. R, yeah. Just to be cl are you spending your own personal resources to ensure that the eloyees get paid . Se yeah, i dont know who resources i would spend. Yeah, its my money. You know . H much is it costing you . I dont know exactly. Mi its in thions of dollars. I want to talk about unemployment with you, because while your eloyees will luckily be spared that fate, millions and millions of americans, more than 2ion after this week, will have filed for unemoy Unemployment Insurance claims. And its such a staggering number. At these unemployment numbers coming in every week, how bad do you think its goingt toefore it gets better . Very bad. Yeah, i mean worse than the gl financial crisis . Yeah. I mean, were way past that alrea. I mean, im not ready to use depression, because its hard to define what thatis but its gonna be difficult for a lot of people. Its already difficultor a lot people, and its ing to be difficult for businesses to keep people employed. No i do have confidence that the entrepreneurs in this country, the innovation that happens in this untry will get us through this. I dont think this is, you know, a 3, 5ye problem. I think its more of an 18 to 24month problem. But it going those 18 to 24 months could be difficult as we start to work our way out of this. I mean, unemployment in the Great Depression was 25 . Do you think were going to get to that level . I dont even want to guess. You know, er than lookingck nd saying, you know what . This is gonna lets just recognize its bad. Recognize at, you know, employers are going to have to ask the question, what do i want my company to look like . How am i going to deal with my employees the day we come out of it . E because those the important questions. Can i pay them enough so that they dont have to be on government assistance any longer . Because thats really the most important thing that we can do you know, to me, the worst socialism is having an employee thats alsoov onnment assistance and me asking taxpayers to subsidize thwork theyre doing for m i want to get to the Small Business part of the cares act, the 2 trillion recoct, the relief act that was passed. There was a part of it that dealt specifically with unemployment benefits. And unemployed workers are now eligible for an additional 600 a week on top of what they alrea received. Senator schumer, who youve had choice words for, called this unemployment on steroids. Me and theres really strong analysis that this is a wellmeaning but perhaps sguided effort because people may be incentivized to stay out y the workforce because t getting paid so much. What do you think about that . Ive seen it happen. Rit . But that doesnt make it bad. Right . So, depends on how long we keep it going. The incremenl 600, yes. Its led people to leaving their jobs, and its led employers to say, you know what . We know you can get 600 more than you would have otherwise in unemployment. Can we lay you off or fire youca so that yogo in that direction . And a lot of employees are saying yes. Ht that only gets us thro a certain period of time. Right . Its not forever. And we dont know whats going to happen when that time period is done. So were going to have to be agile more than anything else. Id love to talk about whats going on with Small Businesses,e because you nvested in more than 150 Small Businesses as a shark on hark tank. You know, of the 2 trillion plan, nearly 350 billion was allocated specifically for emergency lendinto Small Businesses, called the payroll protection plan. And 350 billion sounds like a large number to regular people on the street who, you know, dont think labout government budgets. Its not. Yh, but its not. Right, right. Who say, if youre going to keep every single Small Business in this country, all 30 million othem, going at full speed for the next three months, its going to cost 1. 5 trillion. So is this enough money in the ppp, paycheck protection pla no, of course not. Right . But the question beces its not even just about the amount of money. Its about the timing of the money and the utility of the money. The goal was to reduce as much friction in the economy as possible and keep people on r yrolls, right . cause its chea pay businesses to keep them on payroll than it is to give them unemployment. But the process has had so much friction, via the banks, and i understand why theyre trying to protect themselves, because the treasury isntco always forng on the things they need to do to get reimbursed. But all this friction is making it mordifficult. Is so not onl it not enough money, but by the time the second tranche comes along, many people may have lost their jobs because the timing of it doesnt work for the Small Businesses, that it may be less effective, as well. Theres another 250 billion that is being held up in the senatright now by t democrats who want extra money, another 250 billion, for ste local governments and hospitals. What do you say to those democrats now who are holding up that relief to small busesses . Right idea, wrong time. N you know, i disagree with what theyre trying to accomplish, wet now is not the time, because every daose costs far more than any dollar we gain whenever we get it, because every day, another Small Business is going to collapse and more people are going to be put out in the street. So while the concept is good and your intentions are right, nows not the time. Then theres this other question about, are the Small Business that need it the most, that the smallest and the, you know, on the lowers end ofllbusiness scale, the momandpop on the corner, the bodega down the street, that dont have the preferred relationship with the commercial bankin order to be ablto even get to the front of the line. You know, what are you advising those kind of companies . Theyre in deep doodoo, right . Its a rl problem because not only even though the ppp opened the door for Sole Proprietorships and independent contractors, lyft drivers, er drivers, et cetera, they literally changed the rules just two days ago. And so now theres a whole lot more paperwork, in terms of the tax filings that are required in order for a bank to give t you. And that creates so much more work for a bank. It ps you typically at the e of the le for the reasons you mentioned. Youre not a typical customer for them youre not a big customer for them. And these are the people whone the money the worst. But hopefully, this second tranche, hopefully peopleud will speak up. Look, ive never been a unions guy, but this is the time, right . This is the time for people to come together and organize with a singular voak up you know, whether youre an uber driver, whether youre a lyft driver,he whyou work for a g employer and you dont think that theyre treating you well, nows the time becse the line worker, the people who are making the hourly wages, haeven though a lot of the been laid off, those who are staying with their companies have more voicean more power than ever if they come together. Why do they have more voice, meough . , for exple, sephoras one of these companies that laid off 3,000 people in a mass conference call, and employees reportedly, you know, wereiven less than an hour notice. When sephora decides to rehire, why are those employees going to have more leverage . I mean, wharent they just. Because they cant get open they cant get open without them. And the hardest thing to dooi is to be to retrain new people. Arent people gonna be desperate to get rehired . W l, thats yes, but thats one of the values of the Unemployment Insurance paying so much more. Right . Because theremore money in unemployment and most likely are going to have to continue, at least for some period of time, and when that dons up and any company,il any re is going to want to retain or bring back the people who are already trainedca e its cheaper that way than onboarding new ones and going through all the hassle, so tse people who are being asked to come back are going to have more leverage, not less. Youre really optimistic that this kind of a pandemic can lead to that kind of transformation. Why are yoso why are you so hopeful . And why are you so confident . Ani mean, i i applaud the optimism. I share it. But why do you think thican be the moment to capitalize on it . Thats what makes this country fferent than every other country in the world. Thats who weve been for you know, since 1776. You know, we start businesses. We create opportunity. You know, all these little side hustles you know, you talk about what are people going to do when they dont have their jobs . The biggt opportunities, particularly on the Small Business side, are little side hustles in every Little Community because youre going to haveet feet on the st youre going to know what your neighbors want, and being able to sell and service them in ings its a lot of tn anticipated, are going to turn into Great Companies. Im optimistic that when we looa in 5, 10 years, therell be 10, 20, 30 Great Companies that are created out of necessity i mean, you cartemic of 2020. About ethics in business. That becomes clear if you watch shartank. I want to show you a great moment from shark tank where that really typifies yourt response to a n a certain pitch. Dallas mavericks blue just for you. You keep it. Thank you. Mark, are you allergic to posive negative ion uff . No, im allergic to scams. Seriously . This is not its been disproven. What you saw is the placebo effect. Theres athletes that wear it. Its a joke. Its a scam. Its not real. Im out. Why is ethics so important to you in business . Well, i mea in shark tank in particular, when you have millions of people who are tching the show over and over again with the repeats turning into tens of millis, i want people to know that the only way to do business rit is by doing business ethically. And when someone comes on, whether its supplemen and making bad claims or an ion watch and making a claim ats ridiculous, its not just about the money for most investors and fomost entreeneurs. They really do care because the best businesses are ethical. May not catch up to you in the short term, but it always cas up to you. Karmas a bitch, you know . And im a big believer in karma. So, you wrote on itter back in march. I know income inequality is something youve talked quite a bit about. What is the opportunityin he midst of a pandemic to address income inequality . T well,nk linelevel employees, hourly workers will have far greater importance than they have in the past, because in order to get back to work, Companies Really need to try to retain the same peopleth ve always had. And so thats part one. Part two is, in order for people to get beyond living paycheck to paycheck or the uncertainty of h many hours youre going to be working, they have to have assets that appreciate, and those assets that appreciate typically are gonna be stock optionsin or warrant company. And thatseally the only way to start the process. Do you think that capitalismt United States is insufficiently compassionate . Yes. Why do you say that . Because, look, in erica 1. 0, the drive to juste w much you can get in the bank and, look, ive been just as guilty. When i was first starting ou and i was sleeping on the floor, i was driving around looking at the houses, thinking, you know, if only i could make enough money to have this or that. Ard so i feel that drive. But i think now,cularly, because this is the worst weve seen in a hundred years. You know, now particularly we have to recognize that there was a Bernie Sanders movement for a reason. Right . There was a reason why so many people look up look at socialism as not being a dirty word anymore. And so you have to be cognizant of whats happening in the country today. And the only way to deal with that, as a capitalist, is by being more compassionate and recognizing trickledown economics dont work. Trickleup economics do work. That the stronger the bottom is, the higher you raise it, the stronger consumeri the more they have to spend, the more things they can buy, sthe more appreciable ass they can participate in, the more their net worth will be,nd the more money capitalists can make. So, again, theyre not mutually exclusive. Youve said that youre rich, youre fine if certaunt of your wealth goes to the government. Do youhink that the government is the right mechanism for spreading out the wealth or for sharing concentrations of riches . I mn, for today, yes. Given the circumstances with covid, yes. Means of distributight . R so the answer is absolutely, positively. And thats why youve heard meng say positive tabout the various programs weve discussed. Longer term, potentially. Right . It depends on what you think government should look like. And so, from my perspective, a tech geek right . I think Artificial Intelligence can literally change the wayrn gont is enabled. Government as a service can actually work. The old model of having, you know, millions and millions of employees pushing paper and acting as bureaucrats and friction and getting things done didnt work before. I mean, before all this, there was probably enough money going into the government coffers, we just didnt manage to get it to the people who needed it most. So we werent very efficnt. But i think with new technologies, we can becomect more fnfree, more and dieribute more tohose peo who need it the most. So your work with President Trump has alreadygu in terms of your role on the Advisory Council for restarting the government. Obviously, you youre interaction with the president now, youre trying to helpful, youre a good citizen, youre a patriotic person. How would you grade the president s handling of the covid pandemic right now . Im gonna freak you out, but ill give him an a, and ill tell you why . W because nobody can do a good job. Nobody can do a good job. Doesnt matter who you are, youre going to be able to secondguess anybody. And so rather than just saying, you know what . Heres what you did wrong. Heres the worst part about it. You couldve done this sooner. You could have done that sooner, it doesnt really matter at all. I mean, id rather have a conversati about, okay. When the doors open back up, what are the things that we need to do to make sure that people have jobs . E what are the things thated to do to get people paid more . Should we be talking about eeing things up for ople to unionize because they mighton need umore . Theres so many things and just plain grerward on you know, i wouldnt make a very good teacher from thativ perspective ing grades. Its just not worth it. So i give an a and just walk on. If the election were held today, would you vote for him . Probably not. Biah, probably not. Vice presidenn has promised to pick a woman as his v. P. Candidate. Gretchen whitmer, the emerging star from michigane whoing with the covid crisis in her own backyard, amy klobuchar, kamala harris. Yeah, i know senator klobuchar and senator harris, and ive spent and theyre both ible. , i couldve voted for either one for president had they gotten the mination. How would you handicap the president ial race right now . I wouldnt. H theres so mat can happen. What each candidate does between all the difference. Right . Because theres a real risk of resurgence. Re theres risk that the virus mutates. Theres a real risk that we can mishand any type of therapies. If a therapy comes out and some percentage of thery cant afford it because somebody played favorites with a pharmaceutical company, that candidates gonna get crushed. Right . And so theres so many things that can change. And we really vent seen joe come out and say a whole lot yet. And, you know, its very difficult inhe midst of this. You know, the typical saying is dont let a tragedy go unused, w righn it comes to politics, but at the same time, you kn, to say too much, it could be misconstrued. And so i think hopefully we get mor we get this more, and well have a better fundamental understanding of what each is going to do going forward. I bufar more concerned with the day after. Ght . Because all weve said is all weve talked aut is the complete uncertainty. Nobody knows. Yet i havent heard anything about the day after from either candidate. So im not ready to handicap arything yet. You said thera lot of things that you would tell the president , in terms of how to handle this crisis or things that he should do, with respect to Small Businesseh aneconomy. What are some of those things . Let me take a step back. Right now, were phing down Interest Rates where the fed is effectively buying assets from bks, for nds. R at weve got right now is effectively ubi ch people. Anybody who has appreciable assets, theyre creating a floor for those asts. And for people le me who understand that and can deal with those things, all right. Weve seen the market go up, you know . But no ones talking aut buying assets from somebody whos livingn a dump, rented location that they can barely make the nt, if at all. They dont have a job any longer and they dont have any appreciablassets for anybody to buy. And nobodys buying anything from them right . To prop them up. Im going to ask you, are you running for president . Im leaving the door open. Well see. In these crazy times, anything is possible. But i wouldnt i wouldnt bet th. It would happen as of n so you spend 30 million of your own money to get onll the in all these stat . No. What do you mean . It wouldnt require that. The good news d ws is, the bad news of covid is that its impossible to go out and get signatures. Go th news is, from a legal perspective and getting on a ballot, its impossible to go out and get signatures. And, plus, theresbviously smaller parties that i think would be wide open for having me as a candidate. Ag bun, those are all hypotheticals. Im not saying that its certaly going to happen. If it were today, based of the circumstances today, the answer would bno. But for all the reasons weve just discussed, a lot of things can change. A lot a lot of things are happening in real time as we go forward. But theres all these issues wee discalso that make me wish i had done it. All right. Mark cuban, thanks so much for taking time to be on. Iring li we areciate your views. Thank u for sharing them. And thank you for your leadership in thisime. No, margaret, it was a blast. Thank you for having me on. I hope we get to do it again. Firing line with Margaret Hoover isade possible by. Additional funding is ed by. Corporate funding is provided by. Hello, everyone. Welcome to amanpour co. Whats the pathway out of great economic depression . Not just for the 1 . Then our relationships with lockdown and under lockdown. Tens o millions tune in for therapy with estherperel. We get her top tips. O40 americans dont realize that nativeamerican people still exist. 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