By. Sean penn welcome to firing line. Thanks very much. Good to be here. You are a twotimewi academy awaring actor, a director and author. And you haveeen involved in humanitarian relief work now for more than a decade. We aw you making rescues yourself in new orleans during hurricane katrina. And you spent months in haiti after that devastating earthquake in 2010. Called community organizedprofit relief effort righthere on your shirt, core, which is on the front lines of thcurrent covid19 pandemi and i am grateful that you are joining me. D g be here. Listen, did you ever in your that you would be administering humanitarian relief aidin our own hometown, los angeles, california . No, not at all. R itsl adjustment to make psychologically. When were working ove and particularly in what are typically considerer world countries, and you get a text message from a friend, you just immediately say in the field, will call back later. To consider being in your own hometown and thinking of that as in the field is a very it is an odd paradigm shift. O, your organization, core, has decided to focus on testing and youre on the front lines offering free drivthrough testing to the countrys most vulnerable populations. First, how did you focus on testing . Why did you pickhat area to focus on . Well, i woke up to the morning that was covid19 and knew that i had under my feet an infrastructure and i had great people in disaster response. We had worked throughep the choleremic in haiti as well as postearthquake and had some relationship to Infectious Disease in that sense. So we went to the governor, to Governor Newsom in california and said, hey, youve got team here. Is there a gap we can help fill . He guided us to mayor Eric Garcetti in los angeles, who with the los angelesep firetment, had already set up a very good testing system. Wa but the problethat on all their test sites in los angeles, it was manned by 20 to 25 firefighters, which meant that those firefighters would not be rp the field and responding with their paramedic with their brushfire corps and all of that. So we were able to go in, get trained up by em and then build trainers out of our own people and be able to start recruit. And so its something that we a wee to take off the hands of the fire department, because anybody whos gotten a little bit of will and a little bit of thought the testing aspect of it. Nimate you started this drivethrough testing on march th in los angeles and are now managing testing sites in five states and are expanding to several others, including navajo nation. How are you sean . Im very well gov. Thank you. Mu i want to thank you s and core for what you did. Opening up those testing sites. Getting it done as quickly as you did. I cant thank you enough. Ou we are to be in partnership with you. Youve been a time capsule of reason we need in this time. It seems like the key to your collaboration or the key to your core effort, the strategy, is to build partnerships in order to fill gaps. Absolutely. And its partnerships. Initially, the one thing that we hope will be repliced by other groups with other local governments, municipalities, whether on a state or local level, the way that were going to make a real impact is noto much of our 250,000 tests to date to whatever that number actually is. But the replicability between governmenttch and an ngo or Community Organization on whatever scale that theyre able to. Its the way that i believe the whole country can get testen hese disasters happen. You know, i think president obama recently ud the analogy about pulling the veil back. The veil back on thinglling that might be criticized in government. Ac you pullthe veil on government in general, and youre going to find that, yesoo all of the big are there, but they are not there to the scale that would allow, for example, mass testing. You dont have the Human Resources when it comes to contact tracing. One of the difficulties in using thnational guard is, you know, a lot of people are not going to be very cooperative with information if its a man in uniform or a woman uniform knocking on their door sayg, who have you been around lately . So being cocitizens in that way, working with groups like the national guard, those things are very importanta so its realut being willing to have faithd in each other in. And when you come to a city or state or locality that has political leadership, that embraces it and takes the leap of faith, you do see an awful lot magic happen. T things one, are there local municipalities y find that theyre eager to work with you . And are there states yo know, most municipalities are blue areas, right . You know, cities tend to be l moeral. What about red cities or, you know, more some of the more conservative places . Im thinking Oklahoma City or jacksonville, florida. Have you thought about expanng into those places . Well, weve worked in in what i would say, friendly and unfriendly environments. Within any unfriendly environment, you will find some people in leadership. For example, we wo in atlanta, georgia. Mayor bottoms has been great and supportive. Sh i thinjust genuinely has concern for her constituents. There, you have a governor whos on a planet known to me. So, yes, there it is a little more difficult in those circumstances. But the bottom line n that it is, you know, any thinking perows this isnt about im not in the opening of the economy or not opening of economy business. Ringously people are suf in extrodinary ways. There are going to be a lot of excess mortalities. People who didnt go to the hospital because they didntus the Public Health at this stage, and a lump went from a stage 2 to a stage 4. D were going to be talking about that for years to come. Ki all thos of things. Theres no reason for me to distract myself with, you know, with a shared opinion about the opening aspect of it. What is certain to me is that testing is a partnership between citizens at largede and its not bd by states. We should all be getting tested. Surveillance is a big part of it so that we start to understand this virus, bualso so those families that would otherwise be affected by someone who tes positive, that person can be isolated. I think we should all wear masks, whether we are red, blue or parading in the street if only as a sign of solidarity with these hospital workers who have put themselves on behalf of other human beings and in the line of duty they have. What we can do is put it on just to say i salute you. Thats all we have to do. If we can get to the place where were testing as much as we need to, what does that look like . Is that every american can get tested as much as once or twice a week . Yeah, thats what i se the important thing that Everyone Needs to know about the pcr is theyre diagnostic tests, meaning were not talking about the serology antibody tests. Were not in the serology test biness at this stage. All we do is the diagnostic tests that says, yes, yourepo tive or youre negative. The test result is as reliable as the isolation at you give yourself between testing and result. Anybody can pi it up in between. So i do think that if people are digent, if they get tested twice a week and its absolutely not only possible, we as a country could easily test twice a week. And a test doesnt take long. Its a snap. What about people who are nervous about tting tested . There are people who are reluctant still. What do you say to them . Ey again, e got to look ha at the people they love and make that decision d get past that fear. To id likhow you something President Trump said about testing just recently. Let me show you what he said and get your reaction on the back end. What weve done on testing t weve now more than the entire world put together, the entire world put together. M we have mae tests than they do and better tests. And the reason we have moreau cases is b we have more testing. We actually have not conducted more tests than the whole worlder put togealthough we have completed more raw tests than any other individual country. You know, its widely acknowledged that the federal government was behind the ball and botched the initial phases of testing. Whats your retion to the federal governments response on testing . It goes without sayingof that nons are clear. If there is a national strategy, no relates from social distancing to testing to every other aspect of procurement and manufacturing of ppe. That the president said it, i would part ways and just in the senset that knowing w see on the ground and talking to people because we use most of the work we do is in very marginalized populations. When those people, be they ite, black, brown, anywhere in the country, see that they have an oppornity to be tested twice a week, thats when we will feel like a s. It doesnt do me much good to get into talkingt abe white house. Its going to be our failure as a country,if as citizene dont, between advocating in our own ways for that production, et cetera, and to follow this u weve put out, with core, a manual. Its a kind of idiots guideite. To setting up test sites. Its not a complicated thing to do. You need the ppe, you need the testing, you need a lab relationship. That can be that can happen all over this country. And the success will be when every american has the opportunity to be tested twice a week. And the more americansn that opt that program, the sooner this things going to be disarmed. There are a lot of people who dont want to get tested twice a week. They dont want to wear a mask. What do you think about incentivizing themay to in some maybe either tying it to unemployment benefits, tying it to ppp payments, the Small Business ans program. Do you think people just do it through the goodness as you said, hearts, if theyre, looking at their own family, or is there a way to mandate itc orrage it . The first thought is, is that its about leadershi this is the idea its not only the United Statesr part of the world is doing their own thing on this. And some of them more interesting and successful ways than others. But nobody nobodys bulletproof. And i think it really i dont see a better path than leadership. And if it has to be leadership in the state, then so be it. I think the president of the United States, whatever conflict i may have, if if and i not suggesting this could happen or not, but the incredible legacy that he would have, no matter whats happened, no matter how horrible certain things may appear and be forertain families across this country already, if he did attack this quickly to where pcouldward be tested twice a week, where the scientific communityhe could havehe surveillance that they need, i ally believe that that this that opening thisconomy will happen soone this is, at the very least, a mandatory rehearsal to understand prepss, to have to understand solidarity, to understand how to group together and take these things on, whether its a pdemic, a dirty bomb, a hurricanehe or alltherhings that are coming our way. This could be a great bonding moment. I st encourage the president and all the governors you know, im spoiledco because from a state that has done that. Our state bulletproof. But we are blessed to have Governor Newsom and mayor garcettiey because eally have been as much as possible within theomplexity of political position, doing an extraordinary job you sound a lot less partisan now than people think of you in the past, because, you know, i presume its cause yore in the trenches. You want to get things done, and the politics maybe arent forefront of mind. You tweeted. Yeah, i think i got little bit tired of myse believing that my dinner table passion conversations were translating oreing productive. And ive always had great relationships with people of varng opinions. Ive had bitter arguments. Sometimes that has t with my own travels,le the way th through which ive seen the worlmay be different from other people. But, you know, in humility, yiam also just one more person , what the hell is going on . We better rk together, in all aspects of this, but covid19, we have a duty make this a silver lining. We allhink about the various Silver Linings possible every day. We have to to keepurselves somewhat sane. But there are so many possibilities of that. And its rlly the only way were going to honor these tens of thousands of people that have died from this thing who were who were here with us grandparents, fathers, mothers, et cetera. Even some children. W the just here with us alive a minute ago. And now we imagine them piled up like wood in the rain. E only way that they get an honorle passing is if we commit ourselves to the Silver Linings. D hyou understand how partisan every element of this pandemic has become . Even the debate about reopening . I mean, last week there were protesters in orange county, justouth of los angeles, your home beach, otesting the beach closures. Pr thident is criticizing people who disagree with him. It seems like every aspectca of thit be removed from the partisanship. How do you think about tha well, what we see, as i said, principally in quite marginalized areas, is that the the larger number of people who are the most vulnerableit and the mostut and who have been before this covid19, they are the ones who are largely most concerned about opening too fast, and i do find it upsetting to see that people who have large groups of people who have never known any oppression or going without of any kind suddly on their own behalf are saying, free me, free me, free me without real concern. O but the pathat i can be nepathetic to because living in quaran is not something anybody expected to do. I just think we are in too much a rush and too many people who are the haves are making the argument for opening thout listening to those who dont have the same accessar to healtand what thats going to mean for their families but why do you think that why do you think theres a rush to get back . Do you think its politically driven . Do you thinkts just all abouton the y . Well, i think theres been so much misinformation that people are fati where they would be otherwise inspired. You know, its one of those the country in the eye look and say, actually, we have to sacrifice completely. We cant do it halfway. And if we do that together, we can make all is go much quicker and much more effectively but do you think that we have done what you just said . We have stepped up to meet the moment i dont mean necessarily our political leadership. Maybe some hav maybe some havent. But the American People have basically took the guidance and went home and flattened the curve. Largely thats true. But the guidance has been chaoticou and so we ynow, yes, its in the American People to stand up. That im seeing. Ou i see it witvolunteers and weve got 450 of them in their own neighborhoods working, doing this stuff for their own community. So are americans willing to step up . Yes. You go to the stores, you see some dilence. You also see, you know, the wiring that it takes to really do this right has to again be hammered into us when we go online, when we read our newspapers,e whentch the news on television. Weve got to have a streamlineit thing becaus hard every day to realize where your hand goes, what itouches, how far away you are from people. What is the air and thaerosol . What did they tell me yesterday different om today . What part of it is common sense . And i think common sense another level of step u we still have not fully grasped youve made a career out of bei an activist, being a rabble rouser, maybe earlier in your career, before your humanitarian relief work. Is there any part of you that or feel sympathy for them . Ters oh, yeah. Well, i would say this. When i see people, you know,th doinunmasked, you know, it kind of feels a bit hatefulin ts demonstration, weapons over shoulders and so on. What i see is people who are scared. Theyre scared of not mattering. T. D weve got to work on t and weve got to care about them as much as we do anybody else. And i do. Ow you i can get infuriated watching that. T and thats at is where we go to leadership. And i think that we all can see where leadership harnesses the best in america and where it doesn. How do you think e question of leadership is going to impact the 2020 election . You know, as of 2016, i just i opt out of this conversation. Thats up look, what happened is on us. Its on us for whether people are happy with this administration and those who are desperately unhappy. But, you know, those who wantedl someon in the white house evidently did not work hard enough. And i count myself in. They won. Thats the electoral college. And now its up to america whether theyre going to reembrace that or change it. Told jimmy kimmel, you said that youre. So, in terms of those principles that we stand for, who is going to be a better leader to continue us through covid19 is te biden or is that President Trump . I think its some brilliant 25yrold whos got better digital fluency than either of them. And i think, you know, we are in an inverted possessios of wisdom days. You know, it used to be always us i was hoping to age into the older, wiser set. But i look and i think the greater wisdom is in the youth. Ani think that the way to this country right now is to say, lets take your lead because its their future. Ani think that they are an oppressed society. Their dreams have been limitedby ur mistakes you know,hreatened, certainly. I remember mountain caps, that snow caps that were had been there, you know, in time and perpetuity. And theyre gone now. And you talk about these things, this climate issue. Covid wont be the exiential threat, but it is the existential opportunity. I think climate is probably the first one. If and nuclear pration is the the other one that id be more concerned with. But again, yeah, i would lower the age of it. At s it, about 36, 37 you got to be to be president of the United States . 35. Lets take 10, 8, 10 years off ofhat and well be in business. Lten. Final question. As an artist, as you look at this pandemic, are you finding a deeper meaning or understanding about why were experiencing this now . Its a funny thing. When i was first in haiti in 2010 after the earthquake, i knew a lot of people who i would run intoth ght i was there to make a movie about it. And it wasnt r years that i actually until i ended up considering what that would look like. And what i thought was that the only way to hit the human heart of this story n is that it cou be a drama. It has to be a farce, like mash, that great movie. We knew in our guts, in our hearts, we knew this was going thappen, Something Like this was going to happen. So i think the you know, if i look at it through that lens, like most things,