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Right now. Good evening from new york, im chris hayes. You know, ever since human beings started congregating in institutions of what we would call a higher learning, colleges, universities, conservatives and traditionalists have been freaked out but just were dangerous ideas were being shared their. I mean, really the whole dangerous ideas coming out of universities is literally as old as universities themselves. It has been a core reactionary concern for millennia. Just like everything else, this old thing is new again. This brings us to the most recent republican freakout in florida, which as you may have heard as a governor there, ron desantis calling the creepy Thought Police to campus. He just signed a bill that would require public universities and colleges to survey students, faculty, and staff about the beliefs and few points to support intellectual diversity. Not only that, he is gone on to suggest that budget cuts could take place if schools are found to be, quote, indoctrinating their students. Which is to say, one imagines, that those surveys dont produce the right answers for desantis and his buddies. Now, on his face this is a pretty outrageous east of state power to coerce the beliefs and views of people by surveilling them, right . And threatening them to punish them if they have the wrong views. I mean, ron desantis is claiming the mantle of freedom of conscience and free speech is what he was doing here is quite literally the opposite of that. I mean, it didnt take very long for the mask to fall off. All these masks like ron desantis to care about free speech to essentially start to suppress it or compel it. It doesnt say what they want. Whether its in bills, in state houses looking to ban teaching about certain aspects, the history of racism, the structure of White Supremacy in this country. This is what it least 22 states are doing or already have done. For desantis himself saying he requires students to get instruction on the, quote, evils of communism. Okay. But to me, what was fascinating and revealing part of this has to do with the politics that are driving it all. Politics that are in the center of this moment. And ron desantis said this thing when he announced yesterday that to me it was kind of tell. I know a lot of parents, one of the things they worry about if you send a kid to university are they just gonna be indoctrinated . Are they actually going to be taught to think for themselves and challenges some shuns and really be critical thinkers and learners . We obviously want our universities to be focused on critical thinking, academic rigor. We do not want them as basically a hotbeds for stale ideology. Huh. Lets talk about the word indoctrination there right . Its always in the height of the beholder. Desantis does not clearly think its Indoctrination To Teach Kids that communist communism is bad. Thats his education, right . And i have no doubt that the concern expressed by Desantis Israel because there is something happening in American Politics in Higher Education that is one of the prime drivers of the politics of this moment. So first of all, there is the generational aspect right . Because young people going off to college and coming out of collagen into the workforce are the most leftleaning generation of cohort by far. It shows up an exit poll after exit poll and recent studies, published by the American Enterprises that found crossed 55 schools. Only 26 of the surveyed students are conservative to some degree, and half of the students are liberal in some capacity. And i imagine that there are pro trump parents with mcgahn had, right . And paper places like Naples Florida who are genuinely terrified that when their 18 year old goes off to florida state, theyre gonna come back not being super psyched about their parents political views. Thats a real thing that happens in the world. Im sure parents have said that to ron desantis at some fundraiser. Its a microcosm of a bigger thing which is more of generational which is that our politics are increasingly dividing along the lines of education. Even when you control for other things right . Like democrat fix across razor income, people with higher levels of education are more liberal. People with less education or more conservative. Pure research, in fact, found a 2015 to 2019 the share of republicans and those lean republicans say colleges have a negative effect on the country went from 37 to 59 . This educational divide is particularly sharp on white people. In 2020, joe biden won 51 of White College graduates while getting 32 of support from white noncollege graduates, right . Big divide. We see that educational divide every election. When we look at the maps in the different regions or areas are neighborhoods where votes are coming across the country. Heres indiana. Basically, all red except for a few blue spots where you have the big city, indianapolis, right . And what else . Oh, the college towns. University of indiana and notre dame. So theres a real thing that Governor Ron Desantis is putting his finger on, right . These colleges. People go into them and come out liberals. What is going on . Except the solution for is a perfect example of cultish authoritarianism of the modern Republican Party under donald trump. They have a political problem. Clearly, right . Winning over College Educated voters. Political problem. Winning over young voters, particularly those coming out of college in Record Numbers because that goes up every year. So what do you do about that . Well, as opposed to thinking about what that would mean for reformulating the party either in its substance or its message, dissolution they come up with is to just take the sledgehammer of the state to the institutions of Higher Education. You see this everywhere you look now at the Republican Party. Its a party that is incredibly strong and robust. Its a party that controls more than 54 of all local state legislative sleeves across the country. It dominates, absolutely a dominates huge swaths of america. And yet, the Republican Party has lost the popular vote in seven of the last elections. Seven of the last elections failed to attain up the reality or majority and so they had given up on figuring out how to appeal to a majority of the country. Instead, the motors up around it now is trying to find the way to use they have within their circles, right . To entrench their power even if they cant reach out. That is the logic behind voter suppression. That is the logic. If we reduce turnout, if we make it harder to vote, then we can win without persuading new people to join our coalition. Its the logic on the display on the sword bill. Which is rather than trying to figure out to appeal this, people are moving from colleges and commit liberals. College educated voters who are moving away from us, lets just try to coerce these institutions with a possible threat of budget cuts to enforce some kind of ideological rigidity and that miss test. Its particularly ironic for Governors Desantis in the state of as a political operator. Appealing to some of the people donald trump has alienated. And this last month, more than half of floridians approve the job he was doing, right . And that sense hes negotiating the politics of florida pretty well. Heres the thing, his national aspirations. This is what the National Party demands which is why we go to war on the lips and all their institutions. Institutions that now apparently include the United States military which we have more on later. Its the version of the modern Republican Party, right . The party of the 45th president , previous president , has made it a party of the 47 . Thats trumps foot percentage. 47 . How do you govern this at 47 in a democracy . Right . You need a majority. How do you use the power from 47 to protect your power . How did you give up on winning a majority of voters . Keep power in your hands with a minority. Thats the focus of the Republican Party at this moment. Its a congressman who represented florida from 2014 to 2017. Its a professor of university at chaplain ville, with the book lower and, the troubling rise of for Profit Colleges in the new economy. They both join me now. Tracey youve written and thought a lot about the politics of education, particularly Higher Education and im just curious when parents are telling me theyre worried i heard a real complaint that he is heard from parents which is this idea that this is what happens that we have the precious little kids and we bring them up on our values and they go to college and come back without them. I dont doubt that that is a real concern. But a real concern that has been directed at desantis does not make it a legitimate concern. One grounded in reality. That is the distinction. Of course, two things happening here. You have a campaign and a disinformation campaign. And when you see the merging of these two things come together in the moral panic over Critical Race Theory, right . So on one hand you have the Misinformation Campaign which mischaracterizes illegitimate some field of academic specialty, right . Critical race theory has its tenets, has its proponents, has it scholarship. It is, however, not taking over Higher Education curriculums. Arguably economics has done that but not Critical Race Theory and it is legitimate but not the central for the most institutions of Higher Educations today but the Misinformation Campaign confuses people about the legitimate tenets of what Critical Race Theory means. You have the disinformation campaign. That is the campaign that labels any idea that the conservatives find disagreeable as its criticism race theory. This misinformation and disinformation campaign, as he so eloquently points out, is a sort of last gas a powerful party is still however intellectually impotent. Right . And intellectually impotent ideology and party, you know with all due, chris . When it cannot win, it will cheats. It will cheat. And so if you cannot compete in the marketplace of ideas which you fundamentally do and what desantis is doing you ask for market protectionism. Right . It doesnt want to compete against ideas about learning about poverty or learning about the real history of this nation or global capitalism so wants the chief. That is consistent with modernday republican politics. But it is inconsistent with intellectualism. That is very very well put. David, you know, the anxiety here and the striving fact that education increasingly is one of the big stories of American Politics actually across the oecd world, right . Its happening in all kinds of places. Its amazing for me to watch republicans turn against colleges. As a cultural thing, right . You have parents who are middle class, Upper Middle Class absolute folks who are like i want my kids to go to college who are now turning against the institution. I dont like this thing. Yet chris look each week brings continued affirmation that the republican playbook for 2022 will be culture wars. Itll be a war on education. Itll be descriptions of Critical Race Theory. Itll be issues around immigration and crime. In large part, they will manufacture these anxieties and republicans will follow along. I find it fascinating that Governor Desantis said the premise of this is that parents worry about their kids going to college and being indoctrinated. I would suggest that if parents feel secure in their beliefs and in the believes theyve installed in their children, if they feel to care in the beliefs of their family then theyre okay with those beliefs being challenged. In fact, the greatest value and Public Education would be teaching their own children to think critically. To be confronted by diverse ideology, diverse thought. And so i would suggest that if the governor was secure in his own beliefs and own convictions and of the nine people in that frame, of all eight white men in the one white woman felt secure about their convictions and the way they brought up their children i think they would welcome the diversity of thought that occurs in our college campuses. But that is not whats at play here. Its performative politics and its geared towards 22. Its geared towards ron desantis is president ial run and chris i will say one thing about his president ial run, ron desantis is more successfully executing trumpism then donald trump himself has. He absolutely is. He may not be the next president of the United States, but when there is a next republican president , i do believe it will be run desantis. I think thats true. I would also note that this is a one level stunt but genuinely creepy when the survey start going around and theyre asking as answering your fuses like polled by the state. Which is surveilling them. You know, i want to play this bit of sound which is adjacent to this. I opened the show by saying, look, conservatives are traditionalists. But turning the same kind of Culture War Thing on the military is remarkable to me. Like now the argument is, no, another bastion of Will Radicalism in america is the pentagon. And this was the subject of an exchange today with mark milley, who is an army general. Take a listen to what he had to say. I do think its important, actually, for those of us in uniform to they open minded and widely read. And it is important that we train and understand. And i want to understand what ridge and i want to understand it. So what is it that Cost Thousands of people to assault this building and try to overturn the constitution of the United States of america . What caused that . I want to find that out. I want to maintain an open mind here. Its important we understand that because the marines and guardians come from the american people. So it is important that the leaders now and in the future to understand. Ive read miles, im fred correlate marks, ive read london, doesnt make me communist. So what is wrong with understanding . Having some situational understanding about the country for which we are able to defend. And i personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military and general officers and our commission in Non Commissioned Officer of being called woke by Something Else because were studying some theories. That was started in Harvard Law School years ago and propose that there were laws in the United States, antebellum was prior to the civil war that led to a Power Differential with African Americans in three quarters of a human being when this country was formed. And we had a civil war to change it. And we brought it up to the civil rights act, and took 100 years to change that. So look, i do want to know. And i respect your service, you and i both agree but i want to know and it matters to our military and the use of this military. Matt gates definitely not a green beret, i think he has a green beret and partying but that was pretty good distillation of a response. I thought it was excellent. I cant believe i find myself agreeing with the general but pretty much captured not captured but pretty cool race theory is but why its important for intellectual endeavors and to public life. And this is a porch and turn that i think democrats are going to have to make that the it dont think they have yet made for various reasons. But Critical Race Theory is anti. It is performative massive resistance, right . Its in that grand tradition. It is against a long list of things. With the general did there that is actually really good politics and just really good for the health of Public Debate is that he made an affirmative case for what Critical Race Theory contributes to public life. And i think more people are going to have to do that. More politicians are gonna be calling on the carpet to do it and it cannot just people of color. It has to be someone. The most powerful thing he said that to my mind was im white. And this matters to me. I think in the history of the u. S. Armed forces, the two most deadly where they fought were against enemies who were fighting the cause of White Supremacy. Thanks so much for making time. So far, at some of the most serious changes remain in the january 6th attack on the capitol and involve the oath keepers with 16 members of the Extremist Group facing Conspiracy Charges. Remember that footage of them walking up the capitol . Theres now a lot of things we dont know about what they were planning and who is involved but that made be about to change. Thats because today in a federal court, we learned that one of the socalled oath keepers is not cooperating with the government. Well talk about with that means next. S next [sfx bikes passing] [sfx fire truck siren] onstar, we see them. Okay. Mother and child in vehicle. Mother is unable to exit the vehicle. Injuries are unknown. Thank you, onstar. My son, is h