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Well see you again on monday provided i still have a job. Now its time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. Good evening, lawrence. Good evening, rachel. And who needs commercials . Come on. The audience is very grateful for that move. Rachel, i listened to your interview with Attorney General Keith Ellison who managed the prosecution of Derek Chauvin, so fascinating to hear his perspective on it. He of course, among many other things, really great moves, hired the dream team of special prosecutors. He brought two attorneys out of private practice to prosecute this case, the lead prosecutors. Theyll join us in this hour. They wouldnt have been there, they wouldnt have been in that courtroom without Keith Ellison calling the plays and putting them in that courtroom. And to have had not only the conviction but to have had this landmark sentence today, i mean, that number is going to mean Something Different to everybody who is looking at it, but to have the judge conclude that on a 12 1 2 year presumptive sentence under minnesota guidelines, to end up a decade higher than that for an officer, when so few officers are charged, let alone convicted, let alone sentenced to more than negligible time, it was historic today. And we have jane richard, a little girl who grew up in the neighborhood i grew up in boston. She was seven years old when she lost her leg in the Boston Marathon bombing, her Brother Martin Standing beside her was killed, her mother was injured, her father was injured, they were all there as a family at the marathon. She stood up at fenway park and sang the National Anthem. I cant even talk about it now, rachel, its so moving. Well show that at the end of the hour. Its special night in boston. Im already falling apart thinking about it. I should not have mentioned it until the time comes because its going to be hard for me to compose myself for that. But thank you, rachel. Its time for you to go fishing, its friday night. Do you want me to tell you a quick dad joke to help you reset emotionally . Please. Whats the best thing about switzerland . The mountains . I dont know, but the flag is a big plus. Okay. That worked. That did it. Your weekend starts now, rachel, thank you. Thank you, lawrence. The Breaking News for defendant trump tonight. Donald trumps Criminal Defense Lawyer told nbc news that he expects the Manhattan District Attorney to file criminal charges next week. The Manhattan District Attorneys office is expected to hit Donald Trumps company with criminal charges as soon as next week. Multiple people familiar with the matter tell nbc news. The New York Times reports that both the Trump Organization and its chief Financial Officer Allen Weisselberg could face criminal charges. The times reports the Manhattan District Attorneys office has informed donald j. Trumps lawyers it is considering criminal charges against the Trump Organization, the family business, according to several people with knowledge of the matter. If the case moves ahead, the district attorney, Cyrus R Vance jr. , charges against Allen Weisselberg could be announced as soon as next week. Prosecutors are looking into whether taxes were paid on compensation. An attorney representing Donald Trump Tells nbc news in a statement, it looks like they are going to come down with charges against the company and that is completely outrageous. Ive been practicing for over 50 years and ive never seen a case like this where they would indict or charge an individual or a company on tax evasion for using a company car or Company Apartment and then tie it to the company that he is working for without any evidence that what he did benefitted the company. They are doing this just to get back at donald trump. They could not get Allen Weisselberg to cooperate and tell them what they wanted to hear and thats why they are Going Forward with these charges and they could not get him to cooperate because he would not say that donald trump had knowledge or any information that he may have been not deducting properly the use of cars or an apartment. That attorney also told nbc news that Trump Organization lawyers met with cy vances Office Yesterday and tried to per said the Manhattan District Attorneys office not to go forward with charges. Quote, we met with prosecutors on thursday and i asked for the meeting with cy vance and he agreed that we meet. There were a number of prosecutors and our lawyers. We tried to persuade them that they should not go forward with these charges because they are minuscule and dont affect any of Donald Trumps companies. Minuscule. Free rent in New York City and private School Tuition in New York City could easily be worth millions of dollars. The New York Times reports that at least one representative of the new York Attorney Generals Office also attended the meeting with trump lawyers. The office of new York State Attorney general Letitia James is conducting a civil inquiry into some of the same issues, but they joined cy vances investigation in recent weeks. Trumps lawyer told nbc news the legal steps he expects to be taking next week. Quote, the Corporate Office will plead not guilty and we will make an immediate motion to dismiss the case against the corporation. Mr. Trump is outraged that they are still going after him by going after his company, where he has loyal employees for decades. On sunday, Allen Weisselbergs former daughterinlaw, jennifer weisselberg, who is cooperating with cy vances investigation, said this on msnbc about Allen Weisselberg. Hes blindly loyal. He doesnt have the same moral compass, i think, that i do, where you tell the truth. And hes stayed blindly loyal to not just donalds businesses, but his practices and the way he treats people and the way hes willing to destroy people that arent silent, just the way he is. Theyre morally they have the same moral compass, the same integrity. Hes always been blindly loyal to donald. I also think its about control. Allen is a control freak. I think once things start to get nasty and people are flipping or flopping, that scares him. So hell stay due diligent and stay the course and keep going to work and hold out. Joining us now for this discussion, daniel goldman, former federal prosecutor. Daniel alonzo, former assistant d. A. In manhattan. David k. Johnson, Pulitzer Prize winning reporter on taxation. Daniel alonzo, since this is your old office, you would have been in that meeting if you were in your old job at the d. A. s office this week. What do you make of this, you have Donald Trumps lawyers saying we expect to be charged next week, the company will plead not guilty, well ask for dismissal. We should take Donald Trumps lawyers at their word, fischetti is a very good lawyer, ive tried cases against him. Its unclear that theyre going to charge weisselberg but fischetti says they are. It sounds to me, if they really are focusing only on the perks, that that is a real case, but it is not the main case that we have heard it being prepared all these months. It doesnt mean such a case wont come down the road, but right now theyre focusing on the failure by weisselberg to pay taxes on Fringe Benefits that are taxable and the companys complicity in that what would be an alleged fraud. So it looks like theyre going to indict the corporation, which is obviously authorized under new york law. And mr. Weisselberg sounds like he has called their bluff, sounds like hes not cooperating, and it sounds like theyre going to charge him, and they may charge him with more down the road. Daniel goldman, what do you make about this news . Im not doubting at all that what Ron Fischetti said is true. I also have done a trial against ron, who is an old time New York City lawyer, very good. But hes also a Defense Lawyer and likes to slant things in favor of his client. So i have some questions as to whether all were talking about here are these Fringe Benefits. I would be very surprised if any prosecutor would move forward to indict a Company Based solely on that conduct. As dan alonzo notion very well because he wrote the memo for the manhattan d. A. s office, you would need to show persistent and pervasive conduct. And im guessing theres more than these Fringe Benefits. But lawrence, lets underscore how serious an indictment is for a corporation, particularly like the Trump Organization. If the corporation is indicted, you can expect all of its lenders to call their loans, meaning they want to be paid back because banks do not, and in some cases cannot, deal with indicted corporations. So they will try to call their loans. The Trump Organization of course has way more debt than they have equity, meaning that they cannot repay all of their loans right now. And that could lead ultimately to bankruptcy. So this is incredibly serious, the discussion about charging the Trump Organization. David k. Johnston, if this is about these Fringe Benefits that Allen Weisselberg gets for free or his kids get for free, a free apartment in New York City could easily be a quarter Million Dollars a year, that adds up pretty quickly. Private School Tuition, New York City, 60,000 a year, how many kids are we talking about . This number is not minuscule to anyone not named trump. But theres two ends of this. The company, presumably, is deducting those expenses as some kind of business expense, because there is really no other way the company can book those expenses. And then the recipient owes income tax on it and is not paying income tax on it. Is that basically the shape of this . Well, it may not be in the case of the Trump Organization. Remember that donald trump, by his own count, often has far more Tax Deductions than he can make use of. So we dont know how theyre being accounted for. Lets also remember something central here. Ron fischettis job is to sell the press on the most minimal view of this case. The leaks dont come from prosecutors. They never come from grand jury prosecutors. They are all from the other side or People Associated with the other side, one way or the other, who are trying to shape the news and public perceptions. So i think its reasonable to assume that Ron Fischetti has significantly narrowed the scope of what he learned in that meeting yesterday that went on for 90 minutes. Now, donalds books and records could be completely fraudulent. Donald in the past has been known to produce completely fraudulent records. He did this with his 1984 tax return where his own lawyer testified against him and said that the tax return was a forgery. And this is records violations in new york are a 25year felony, if i remember correctly, so its a serious matter. But this is probably more than that, as described by Ron Fischetti. Dan, what would you expect us to see next week, based on what we think we know tonight . Im basing it not just on mr. Fischettis statement, which wasnt a leak, it was an on the record statement. Also reporting from the New York Times and nbc news. It sounds like they have it from multiple sources that they are going to go forward with things surrounding the Fringe Benefits. And youre right, lawrence, it is a not insignificant amount of money. I will not say its the case of the century, even if you have over a Million Dollars in undeclared income, thats still under new york law going to be 100,000 plus in taxes that werent paid. So its not an enormous tax laws. That said, its a taxpayerfinanced fringe benefit. So it is serious enough to prosecute. And there is, as dan goldman pointed out, this policy that i issued on behalf of the d. A. Years ago, where there are a whole series of factors and some of those factors are whether the company cooperated, whether the company selfreported, obviously they get low marks on that. One factor is collateral consequences. And dan mentioned that perhaps the company would go into bankruptcy. I would say that prosecutors have considered that quite kwafl carefully as well. I am a little skeptical on whether the banks will call the loans because the banks want to be repaid and if the loans are performing, theyre not going to call them. Im not sure theyll call loans over an indictment, especially one as narrowly drawn as i expect this one to be. We wont know until next week. Dan, will the federal prosecutors in the Southern District of new york be kind of looking over their shoulder at this and wondering, look, if there are Tax Violations within New York State law, that might translate into federal Tax Violations . I dont think so, lawrence. The Southern District had an investigation, and appears to have closed it, after turning over their materials to the manhattan d. A. s office. I think the Southern District is for whatever reason is out of this game and out of this investigation. In some ways thats a shame, because for the conduct that were talking about, the federal penalties are much more severe than the state penalties. I think a federal rico charge is much more obtainable than the equivalent little rico in New York State. And certainly some of the fraud, as dan said, the tax fraud and maybe perhaps some other fraudulent activity, would be punished much more harshly. The reason why that matters, i think, is that Allen Weisselberg is probably playing a game of chicken here, and he is essentially saying, i dont think you have anything on me thats going to put me in jail perhaps for any time and certainly not for a long time, and so im going to stay loyal to my guy donald trump, and im not going to cooperate. That may be very different if he were facing five, eight, ten years. Daniel goldman, dan alonzo, and david k. Johnston, thank you all very much for starting us off tonight, really appreciate it. Thank you, lawrence. Coming up, 22 1 2 years. Ten years more than the sentencing guidelines. Thats what Derek Chauvin got today as a sentence for the murder of george floyd. The lead prosecutors in the case, Jerry Blackwell and steve schliser, will join us next. Ll. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. The new citi custom cash℠ card, a different kind of card that Rewards Rashida and dan where their spending is trending. Just ask fifth class this week rashida. Rashida dan, no pain, no gain. Okay . Dan yeah i know, its just. Hello . Claire, what . Fire . Or always road tripping on empty dan. Rashida i told you this would happen. Dan the light was not even on. No, it was on. Dan what . With the new citi custom cash℠ card it pays to be you. 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