Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240704 : vimarsana.com

MSNBCW Morning July 4, 2024

Mara gay. White house editor for politico, sam stein. You saw him on way too early. And the founder of the conservative website, the bulwark, charlie sykes. It is a great group. Thank you for being with us this morning. Well begin the week with the latest on those new charges against former President Donald Trump in the classified documents case. Today, a newly introduced third defendant, the Property Manager at former president s florida home, is scheduled to be arraigned in miami Federal Court. Carlos de oliveira was named in a Superseding Indictment last week and charged in four counts, including conspiracy to obstruct justice and making false statements to the fbi. According to prosecutors, trump directed both de oliveira and his valet, walt nauta, to destroy Security Camera footage last year from the Room Monitoring where boxes of classified documents were being stored at maralago. That alleged order came just days after the fbi issued a subpoena for that same footage. Its unclear, though, if de oliveiras arraignment will go on as planned today. Because, as of last night, were told he still did not have a floridabased lawyer. Maybe the same stall tactic that nauta used earlier in the case. Lets bring in nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian right now with the very latest. Ken, what to we think we will see, if anything, today . Reporter good morning, jonathan. Well, it all depends on whether he can find local counsel. For somebody like Carlos De Oliveira, thats a big deal. He has to find a competent lawyer in florida on very short notice. Assuming he didnt know he was about to be named in an indictment, someone to represent him. One thing is clear, these new charges add a really important, new dimension to the Obstruction Of Justice angle to this classified documents case. And it really separates what happened here with the situation with President Biden and former Vice President mike pence, who both had classified documents found in their rresidence. What was laid out on friday in the Superseding Indictment was a scheme, something out of a mob movie, where donald trump instructed lower level employees to delete footage. Its clear to regular americans what thats about, and it undercuts what had been mr. Trumps defense in the classified documents case. If the documents were declassified, if he had a right to them, which is what he had been saying, why would he needs to destroy evidence, Surveillance Footage showing the boxes of classified documents being moved . This is a very Important Development in the case. It remains to be seen whether this third defendant is arraigned. At some point, he will be, jonathan. Of course, this came sort of Out Of Nowhere at the end of last week while the eyes were n washington, thinking the january 6th election interference indictment could come down. We should note, we still anticipate that coming. Could be in a matter of days. Ken, on this case, we heard from trump on truth social, over the weekend at his rally, insisting, insisting, hey, we never deleted anything. We never deleted the server. That wasnt the point, right . It was that he gave the order to. Reporter thats right. He is charged with a conspiracy to obstruct justice in this matter, and it doesnt matter if youve succeeded in a criminal conspiracy if the prosecution can prove you engaged in one. Now, i will say, reading this Superseding Indictment carefully, it doesnt give any hint that prosecutors have direct witnesses who can put the words in Donald Trumps mouth, delete the footage. What they laid out in the Superseding Indictment, its between de oliveira and a fourth employee who appears to be cooperating, where he says, the boss wants the footage deleted. Obviously, what they would like to do is flip mr. De oliveira and have him testify about his conversations with donald trump and if those, in fact, were the conversations, that becomes a devastating witness. But theres reporting that, you know, they brought him in and talked to him under what is known as a proffer, a queen for a day proffer. According to the Washington Post, they didnt like what he said, and they believe he lied to them, which is why theyve charged him with false statements. He is represented by an attorney who is paid for by Donald Trumps supe pac. Thus far, he is standing firm. It raises a bit of a question about how strong the evidence is here in terms of pinning on mr. Trump the conspiracy to delete the footage. Well have to see if this is all the prosecutors have, jonathan. A conspiracy complete with references to the boss and hush emojis in text messages. Ken dilanian, thank you so very much. Ken mentioned a report in the Washington Post that reveals trumps group spent 40 million on legal costs in the fist half of this year to defend trump, his advisers and some others. Whats more, trumps Save America Pac is financing legal work that is now raising questions from prosecutors about potential conflicts of interest. Thats according to people familiar with the matter. Trump advisers told the post that the pac, which raises most of its money from small dollar contributions, is footing the legal bills for almost anyone drawn into the numerous Trump Investigations who requests help from the former president and his advisers. Joining us now to talk about it is one of the coauthors of this brandnew piece of reporting, the Washington Posts devlin barrett. He covers security for the paper. Great to see you. Explain the potential issue with the representation of the two who have been charged in the documents case. We mentioned that, Valet Walt Ngata and the Property Manager, de oliveira, and the i. T. Worker who looks to have provided information to prosecutors. Right. So it is not unusual for an employer to pay for the legal costs of an employee who getting involved in an investigation. What is so interesting and, frankly, potentially important about the trump situation is when you look at these witnesses, when you look at these trump employees, which are seen as a highstakes game of chicken, where when prosecutors come to suspect that a person is being more loyal to trump than the truth, then they start pressing them. In some cases, they can essentially bring them over to being a witness. Thats what you see happening, why there is a Superseding Indictment with Carlos De Oliveira, walt nauta, they engaged in a high stakes game of chicken with prosecutors, and ultimately they were charged. Slightly off topic but on the same general thrust, the story about the 40 million that the pac spent on legal fees, one of the questions that ive had, which, you know, i guess i would love for your insights into, is why did they do it through the pac as opposed to setting up an entirely separate legal entity, which the times is reporting theyre now doing, a Legal Defense fund to cover this . Why do through a political entity, the Pac Raising Money that should be for political purposes or an election, as opposed to doing something that was strictly for legal purposes, like Legal Defense fund . Sure. So its long been the case that political entities are allowed to pay the legal costs of the candidate or the campaign. Thats been true for decades, and people have made this raised this question and had this concern for a long time. But i think the Simplest Answer to your question is that its just easier. If you know your campaign is raising a lot of money, if you know that that campaign or pac is allowed to spend money on legal costs, for a lot of campaign and a lot of politics, the answer is, why not do it . Its a simpler way to both raise money and spend it. The Washington Posts devlin barrett, more terrific reporting. Thank you for joining us this morning to share it with us. Now, over the weekend, some of trumps challengers in the 2024 president ial race highlighted the issues with his current campaign. I think weve got to move forward. We cant have a General Election where we are handing it over to Kamala Harris because were dealing with indictments and court cases and legal issues of President Trump. So it would help you get your message out and republicans get their message out if he drops out, is that what youre saying . Well, none of us want to be talking about indictments. I dont know if it is the third, fourth or fifth indictment right now. What i can tell you is, it is a distraction and, frankly, the media is talking about it nonstop. But when i do these town halls, the American Public is not talking to me about that. I think what our voters need to begin to think about is, we have a frontrunner right now who, when he gets on the stage for the fox news debate on august 23rd, will be out on bail in at least two different jurisdictions, if not three between now and then. How are we going to beat the democrats with a candidate who is going to be out on bail facing numerous, numerous selfinflicted wounds in courtrooms across this country . Donald trump is not running for president to make America Great again. Donald trump is running to stay out of prison. If we elect [ crowd booing ] i know, i know, i know, i know. Listen, i know the truth, the truth is hard. But if we elect donald trump, we are willingly giving joe biden four more years in the white house, and america cant handle that. As you can hear, that audience at fridays iowa lincoln dinner wasnt buying that critique of trump delivered by former congressman will hurd. Yesterday on meet the press, hurd was asked about his comments and the hostile response from the crowd. I knew there were going to be people that didnt like it, but what i didnt expect was there were a lot of people that actually clapped. And more, there were more people that sat there politely and probably understand and knew what i was saying was the truth. New polling showed most republican primary voters simply dont want to hear the voice. In the latest survey from the New York Times and Sienna College, trump leads Florida Governor ron desantis by 37 points. 54 to just 17 among likely gop primary voters. All other candidates earned less than 5 of support in the poll, which, we should note, was conducted before new charges were announced against trump in the classified documents case, that Superseding Indictment. If you take out all candidates other than trump and desantis, the survey still shows the former president leading big by a margin of 62 to 31 . The poll also suggests that 56 of republicans say trump did nothing wrong in the classified documents case, though it remains to be seen if last weeks Superseding Indictment changes the support. My guess would be no. And after the 2020 vote, 75 of republicans say he was exercising his right to contest the election. 19 say his actions threatened american democracy. Charlie sykes, charlie sykes, charlie sykes. This is yet another poll that shows that this is Donald Trumps party no matter what sort of legal peril he faces himself in. We have spent the first bit of this show detailing the new allegations, and it sure doesnt seem like it matters. That same dinner where we played that sound from will hurd, all the republicans were there. It wont surprise you to learn who had the biggest crowd and the biggest reception, and thats donald trump. Yeah. I would say that these polls are unambiguous. What happened in iowa was pretty clear. He wanted to know what the nature of the Republican Party was right now. I mean, he still dominates the party. He goes into iowa, insults the governor there, and hes the only candidate that gets the standing ovation. One of the candidates that actually calls him out is booed. So the poll makes it very, very clear that, at this point i mean, heres the reality check, jonathan. I think youd have to be naive to the point of being delusional to think that donald trump is not going to be the republican nominee for president , despite all of this. You have to be naive to the point of being delusional to think any of these indictments are going to change all of that. Because what you have is this alternative reality of the Republican Base, that sees january 6th as somehow quasi legitimate, that is willing to overlook all of Donald Trumps lies, all of the crimes, all of the things that he has done. You know, when you add up everything we know about donald trump and everything that all of the republican insiders and members of his own administration have said, and then you look at those polls, and you have to ask yourself, what would it take to actually loosen his hold on the Republican Party at this point, jonathan . I cant think of anything. I cant think of anything. You saw that on display over the weekend, and you see that in those numbers. Yeah. Mara, certainly, a General Election might be a different story. These are things that you cant imagine the indictments help him with undecided or swing voters next year. Right now in the Republican Party, we are at two indictments, likely a third maybe this week, and nothing changes. Well, you know, it really speaks to the extent to which donald trump has gotten a large portion of the Republican Base to identify with him. And so the more under attack he becomes, almost like a Bunker Mentality has developed among the Republican Base. They just dig in even deeper with him. You know, one of the questions that i had, and i was wondering if maybe charlie might be able to shed some light on this is, charlie, you know, more and more, especially as candidates like ron desantis has risen, who while not a populist himself necessarily, certainly is far to the right of most voters in the country, do you think that this is an overall realignment that were seeing among Republican Voters with rightwing populism . Or is this really just more cultlike behavior about donald trump himself and trumpism . That is a fascinating question. I think both things can be true at the same time. Ron desantis seemed to be under the illusion that he could run a kind of i am donald trump without the baggage, and hes gone for the social issues. But as i think is becoming increasingly apparent, this is not an election about issues. Its not an its not one where youll have a referendum on wokism. It is about donald trump. It is about Donald Trumps personality. At the same time, you are seeing this hard realignment on the right that was a convention of Young Conservatives recently in washington, d. C. The reports out of there suggested theyre not interested in traditional conservative values or even fiscal issues. They like the social red meat issues. So i think the hangover of this is going to take is going to linger for a very, very long time. I think decades from now, well look back on this as very much a realignment, even after donald trump leaves the stage. Yeah, trump had the big crowd in iowa and another one at a rally in the Battleground State Of Pennsylvania over the weekend. Hes continuing to suggest, trump is, that the bidens were involved in a Bribery Scheme with burisma, the Ukraine Energy company where hunter biden once served on the board. At the pennsylvania rally, trump demanded further military aid to ukraine be withheld until the Biden Administration turns over everything related to the biden familys Business Dealings. Joe biden is compromised. He is dragging us into a global conflict on behalf of the very same country, ukraine, that apparently paid his family all of these millions of dollars. In light of this information, the u. S. Congress should refuse to authorize a single additional payment of our depleted stockpiles. But the Weapon Stockpiles to ukraine until the fbi, doj and irs hand over every scrap of evidence they have on the Biden Crime Familys corrupt Business Dealings. We have to know, and the public deserves to know. In addition, congress should immediately vote to block joe bidens recent call up of reserve forces. Were sending troops over to europe to fight. Were sending ships to fuel this escalating conflict. Not a single American Life should be put at risk because Crooked Joe Biden has been illegally paid off. Hes been paid off. This is a corrupt president. Hang on.

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