The first Warning Signs for the trump campaign. Hanging above the first three indictments trumps team waiting for another shoe to drop in georgia where fulton d. A. Fani willis says she has a duty to prosecute. I took an oath and the oath requires i follow the law. Also sharing see the questions. The shocking news from the Justice Department tied to two u. S. Navy sailors arrested for spying. The Sensitive National secrets at the heart of the case. We begin with former President Trumps next big day in criminal court. Such five days after republican candidates take the stage for the first primary debates later this month. The former president on truth social bemoaning the high cost of his court battles, quote, my political opponent has hit me with a barrage of weak lawsuits which require massive amounts of my time and money to adjudicate. Resources that would have gone into ads and rallies will have to be spent fighting these radical left thugs in numerous courts throughout the country. A new reuters poll signals the impact on his campaign may be widening. Take a look at these numbers. If hes convicted of a felony 45shgs of Republican Voters would not vote for him. 35 say they would. 20 are unsure. It mimics conversations our own nbc news team is having with voters on the ground. I have really mixed feelings on that. Definitely think that he has broken the law, at the same time i think there are elements of a witch hunt in there, so i have mixed feelings on it. I want to bring in nbc news justice correspondent ken dilanian, security reporter desk Devlin Barrett and legal analyst barba ra mcquay. Recommend to all. You reported donald trump and jack smith didnt make eye contact yesterday, even when trump first walked into the courtroom, smith stared straight ahead. As you look ahead down the road how do you see the case of the u. S. Versus donald trump first and foremost, how does it look . Yeah. The observation of jack smith, i had that Vantage Point of looking at his face because i was watching on video, its a reminder at the end of the day, the Justice System is made up of human beings and we are where we are today because Merrick Garland chose to appoint jack smith and jack smith pushed this case forward, a case that a lot of people didnt think would end up being brought. And where it stands now is that its clear interest yesterdays hearing that one of Donald Trumps foremost legal strategies is to delay because his attorney john lauro made it very clear that he thinks its a fools errand to have a speedy trial in this case and thinks theres going to be a lot of documents to go through and legal defenses and hes going to avail himself of every possible defense. We have a new analysis about what some of the defenses are that include, of course, that donald trump was relying on the advice of his lawyers, that he legitimately believed that he won the election, and theres some issues with some of the statutes involved. All of these defenses have flaws, but they all could end up taking time, and it remains to be seen how quickly this case can get to trial. Devlin, the Court Exchange yesterday is really instructive to the point we were just making with ken, because your team at the post reports the Magistrate Judge proposed three days. August 21st, for 2023, for clarity, august 22nd and august 28th. The Prosecutor Says the government is available for all three days but would like the first one. Lauro, trumps lawyer, says august 28th. Is that a foreshading of how theyre going to play this . Exactly. And its also a great microcosm of what this fight is going to be about. Even when it comes to days within a week, you know, the government wants to go early and the defense wants to take as much time as they can. Theyre arguing about the clock because everyone understand how important the clock is to what happens here. So barbara, judge chutkan who will preside, sent a message she is going to set a trial date during the next hearing, but again, trumps lawyer says hes not going to be rushed. Lets take a listen to what he said last night. They want to deny President Trump his Due Process Rights to look at documents, to get witnesses, to use our subpoena power. They want to deny him those rights in a rush to judgment for one political purpose, and thats to uphold the Biden Administration. This is a fastmoving railroad without any concern for justice. So there are a couple of types of delays. Correct me if im wrong legitimate delays written into the constitution that you want to have your client well defended. There are also delays that we have seen judges, not just push back on, but i would say get pretty pointed about to some lawyers. Whats the difference . The Speedy Trial Act governs everything here. The idea hes being denied due process and other things is premature at best. The court will make a decision based on that Speedy Trial Act about when there should be a trial. The presumption is within 70 days of arraignment, but delays can be granted for particular reasons. For example, if the defendant wants to file motions that can stop the clock for a period of time up until the judge holds a hearing and then an additional 30 days to decide that motion. The speedy trial clock builds in the appropriate amount of delay necessary in a particular case. Sometimes a judge may decide a case is so complex that it needs to be extended even beyond those deadlines, but one important thing to remember, is the Speedy Trial Act applies not just to the defendant but guarantees the public a speedy trial. The public has an interest in bringing offenders to justice. We know very clearly that jack smith thinks a speedy is as soon as possible. Have we heard anything from the trump side, again having said that they think its absurd for prosecutors to want to keep a fast timeline, what would be an appropriate timeline in their eyes . Only after the election . Right. So theyve already said in the florida case about classified documents, theyve argued essentially that the trial that trial shouldnt happen until after the election. I expect to see a similar demand for time here, and part of their demand, part of what theyre already arguing about in this case, the january 6th case, is that the evidence, the discovery so vast, that they just need a lot of time to digest it and understand it. I think thats an understandable argument for a Defense Lawyer to make but everything understand the clock and within the next year and a half there are few fwhoes a calendar to put a trial precisely because of his own cases. Yeah. That is the trick, right. Lets talk about the case itself, barbara. The New York Times writes about tony schwartz, be thats the guy that was trumps ghost writer on the art of the deal. Bewildered by more than 30 years ago, he came up with a formulation that tried to put mr. Trumps rhetoric flights from earth in the context of a salesman savvy. If you took him at his word you are the fool and yet perhaps even more to the point, he succeeded because he comes to believe himself making him the ultimate fool as well as the ultimate salesman. Some wonderful word smithing there, but can that strategy translate to court, that this is a guy who has always and in this case did believe what he said over and over again . I won. Yeah. I dont think so. You know, might work in the court of Public Opinion which is why i think his lawyer is being aggressive in trying to sound reasonable and throw out these things about First Amendment rights and reliance on his lawyers advice, because if he can convince the public this was reasonable and delay the trial he can win the election and thats his best defense. At trial it is just not going to fly because the jury will be instructed about the law, be able to hear evidence of the facts and they will also be instructed about the concept of willful blindness and that is, a person cannot ignore a high probability that a fact is true just by wishing it is not. And this idea that i convince myself that the lie was true, is not going to hold up if there was so much evidence to the contrary, and so as alleged in the indictment, trump heard from many, many different sources there was no fraud in the election and for him to maintain ill believe it until the day i die is not good enough with the willful blindness legal instruction. The next hearing, give us a thumbnail sketch beyond setting a trial date. What else could happen there . I think thats whats likely to happen, but i think in the course of that were going to hear a foreshadowing of some of those defenses because to ask for more time trumps lawyers are going to have to justify those delays. The judges job is to make sure the defendant gets time to prepare but honors the publics tried a speedy trial. Theyre going to have to lay out what exactly it is you think will take so long and probably hear about the volume of discovery which is probably substantial here, but about the motions that they might choose to file. I think we can anticipate based on some of the things were hearing already, First Amendment, prosecutorial misconduct, reliance of advice of counsel, but maybe there will be more and something ill be looking for, what are the specific reasons that trump team wants delay in this trial date and that may be a bit more about their defense plans. There was so much written and it was fascinating, devlin n your paper and others, by ken, about what actually happened in court, looking at the players here. I thought one of the most interesting things was it was watched by District Court judge who presided over judges who presided over trials of january 6th rioters, including and this is again from the times, judge Amy Berman Jackson who called out mr. Trumps irresponsible and knowingly false claims that the election was stolen when she imposed a harsh sentence on a rioter who had bludgeoned a Capitol Police officer into unconsciousness. Trump now the latest person to be charged for actions related to january 6th. And i just wonder what sort of abuzz was, and make of the fact that the judges wanted to be there . Yeah. I think thats a really important point, chris, because i think that is very rare to see in courts. There is a dynamic that we sometimes jokingly call the law olympics if theres a big case going on, all the clerks and all the, you know, eager beavers want to look at it and see, but having judges come is different and that doesnt happen very often. And i think that speaks to the degree to which this courthouse in particular has been completely inundated and at times overwhelmed with the sheer volume of january 6th cases. Donald trump was the 1,078 january 6th defendant to come through that courthouse and i think having the judges show up, speaks to the degree that this issue has consumed this courthouse for more than two years. And, so i think that will probably feed into trumps arguments to try to move the trial, but i do think it speaks to how important this issue and this case is to not just the people of washington, d. C. , but to the judges of washington, d. C. Devlin, ken, your reporting has been fantastic and we thank you for it sharing it. Barbara, youre going to be sticking with us. The Fulton County d. A. Fani willis readying a potential fourth indictment of donald trump. How she could be using the rico act more familiar to Crime Families than politicians to make that case. We have that coming up in 60 seconds. 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Court, no intimidate or retaliation against any potential witnesses, and a fourth case is expected soon in georgia. Fulton county d. A. Fani willis is reportedly building a case against trump under the georgia rico act, used commonly in the prosecution of organized crime. Given trumps Indictments Willis was asked yesterday whether a fourth is worth the trouble . I took an oath and the oath requires i follow the law and if someone broke the law in Fulton County, georgia, that i have a duty to prosecute. Thats exactly what i plan it to do. Barbara mcquade is back with me, dasha burns as well. This morning we learned that trumps attorneys have voluntarily dismissed their attempt to disqualify d. A. Willis saying its moot after two promotions that were put out earlier were denied. What do we know about the timing and preparations for this fourth indictment . We dont know exactly when its going to drop, but we have a couple of clues that give us and indication. We know that Fulton CountySheriffs Office has shut down an area around the courthouse and that Street Closure Plans to begin on monday and last until august 18th. Again, we dont know the exact timing but that kind of gives you an indication. We know from the Fulton County d. A. She says the decision on whether or not to charge the former president would be made no later than september 1st. She said that work is accomplished and, quote, were ready to go. Now, the indictment that we have now reviewed from the Special Counsel has five pages or so that detail trumps attempt to overturn georgias election in 2020, and the d. A. Fani willis was asked about that and how that might impact what shes doing. It has no bearing on her case, and shes going to focus on what happened in Fulton County. One other interesting note, in the last three indictments, one state and two federal, the former president , he was processed and fingerprinted. A mugshot was not taken. The Fulton County sheriff says in Fulton County if he is indicted and arraigned he will be treated just like anybody else and would be fingerprinted, mugshot, the whole deal. We dont know exactly when its dropping, but that street closure, the folks are working from home in Fulton County, again, until august 18th, starting monday, so looking like the next couple weeks here, chris. Thanks for that. Lets talk about this potential use of racketeering law to build a case against trump. The Atlanta Journal stugs writes georgias version of the rico act is written more broadly. Under the georgia law its easier to prove a pattern of racketeering. If willis moves forward with rico charges as she is expected to, shes likely to indict a group of people and not follow jack smiths approach of just indicting trump at the outset. What do you make of it as the potential strategy . I think a rico indictment here would be absolutely appropriate. You know, rico originated with the idea of the mafia organized crime. It can apply to any organized activity. I used it myself in public corruption cases. It provides an umbrella under which you can put what might otherwise be separate schemes and might be open itself up to a motion for severance and allows one jury to hear the entire scope of all the criminal conduct. So in georgia, for example, we know that there was trumps call with Brad Raffensperger, false slates of lectors, activity with tampering with Voting Machines in kauffman county. This would allow fani willis to bring under one case all those. In the indictment that came out now, jack smith listed seven state where there were attempts to overturn the election, he says. Why is georgia so important . Why does it seem to be the one where its getting so much attention . What makes this case different . I dont know. Each state has different facts and different laws, but i imagine one of the reasons in georgia is because we have the very best evidence in georgia of any other place because its the only place im aware of where there is a recording of donald trump pressuring an election official to throw the election. That call where he demands Brad Raffensperger find him 11,780 votes thats the clip we hear but the entire call lasts for about an hour. He is repeatedly pushing Brad Raffensperger, if you dont do this there could be criminal consequences for you. Raffensperger constantly pushes back, no, mr. President , we looked at that and the other thing. Because of the strength of that piece of evidence, not the entire case, there will have to be more evidence to prove the case, but the strength of that evidence that likely sent fani willis down this path early and she has built it appears a case around that. Im not aware evidence