After you. So, what the government has said is that, at this point, this becomes dangerous for them. They have got to give over evidence, and its for 16 pm 4 16 pm if donald trump uses his comments to the press what is go after you mean . Who is he coming after . Witnesses . People who are named . The government has says said, if the government were to im quoting now from the document that we are looking to just get we will have it in a few minutes. But this is what kyle cheney has posted. If the defendant were to begin issuing public posts using details or, for example, a grand jury transcripts obtained in discovery here, it could have a harmful Chilling Effect on witnesses, or adversely affect the Fair Administration of justice in this case. They have written a lot about precedent in these instances. So, basically what is happening is, the Trump Defense team has asked for all the information that they need to move forward with their defense. That is expected. The government has said, we need a little time to do. This because if we start handing this stuff over willynilly, your guy might start using it irresponsibly. Lets go right to harry litman, former United States attorney and former Deputy Attorney assistant general. Hes a Senior Legal Affairs columnist for the los angeles times. Also with us is paul butler, Professor Of Law at Georgetown University and an msnbc legal analyst. Gentlemen, i said i had plans to talk to you about some other things, which we will probably get to. But paul, lets just start with his. As people were listening to the arraignment yesterday, there was a discussion of a protective order. The government had always suggested this was going to be in place. What has changed now . What has happened that has caused them to make a reference to this Truth Social Posting of Donald Trumps . What has changed is that social media post, which was entirely consistent with the way that we have seen this criminal defendant act throughout all of these investigations. You know, when the judge the Magistrate Judge yesterday told trump to stay away from witnesses, that is really unusual in an arraignment, its almost certainly something that that Magistrate Judge would have feared with judge chutkan again. And these cases we know that there is going to be a racketeering case in fulton county. And in mafia cases, in gang banger cases, those kinds of orders, protective orders, are prominent. They are much more unusual in public corruption cases. But donald trump has demonstrated time and time again that that is the kind of process that he deserves. Harry, your take on this . Because not much that donald trump post catches my attention these days. I think we are all numb to it. But this was in bold print. If you come after me, i will come after you. And all week he has been saying things like, they are not really coming for me. They are coming for you. And im the only ones standing in between. It gets dark and dark with each post. What do the prosecutors think when they see this stuff . I assume they also are numb to it, and most of the stuff that dont from tends to post easing by most people is nonsense. Why is this not nonsense . Well, theres two things. Well, first of all, the prosecutors are moving for a protective order by the discovery they will give trump. They were going to do that correct. But theres two things here, first. Remember, this is the court that has heard the Thousand Plus defendants yes. Who actively stormed the capitol. Anybody, i mean anybody, who posted Something Like this would have a protective order slapped on them right away. So, they have got a playbook for people who are violent, et cetera. And they are going to impose it on trump. That is 0. 1. Point number two is, it is a first step. There might be three, there might be six, there might be eight, but it will make the court the court will clearly admonish trump here and it will just be, all right, if you do this again, mr. Trump, if you do this again and eventually the ones they may have is, you have got we are going to put you in jail for a couple of days. And that is something that obviously would be a total crazy situation for the country and for him. But what this means is, however many steps, they will give him a little rope, but he has just burned some of his rope, and now has that much left paul, the judge magistrate yesterday, as you said, most of the stuff she did was standard and by the. Book but these references that she made to not interfering and not intimidating, not doing those sorts of things who are we worried about here . Is this Jury Tampering . Is this Witness Intimidation . When donald trump says don trump says, if you come after me, i will come after you. Who is the u you. Its everybody. Discovery is the evidence that the government has collected, and criminal defendants have a right to that before the trial starts. So, it names witnesses. It name sources. From it, you can garner the governments investigative techniques. And all of those people need to be concerned, given i mean, this is it sounds like he is threatening violence or some kind of severe repercussion. If this werent donald trump, he would be in serious jeopardy of getting locked up in the trial. Because he sounds dangerous. In other words, if a mob boss said. This right . That we would all sort of know that, oh, wait a second, this is an intimidation. Yeah. Thats right. And again, trump has earned this kind of condemnation in his speeches and in social media outbursts. He consistently has targeted judges, prosecutors, and witnesses. And because he has not faced any real sanctions before i guess he has Felt Empowered to i will bet that judge Tanya Sue Chutkan shuts that down. Harry, i want to ask you about something. Because the post is vintage donald trump. Right . The all caps. The stuff he has been saying all week. But the Donald Trump In Court Yesterday was very different. I want to read from the new yorker, an article that came out. Its as, trump has always projected confidence and imperviousness. His oval office tenure was marked by a conviction that he could been the instruments of government to his will. But on thursday, he sat fragile and sneak in the defendant see. Trump is still the republican front runner for president but at the arraignment he did not seem invincible, protected by money, shame or rather, he appeared delicate, caught in the years of the law at the mercy of the government functions that he had once manipulated. Did you see that . Did you notice that yesterday in the reporting about donald trump, harry, that he stood up . He said you know, he said your honor to the judge. There was no trump nonsense in court. Thats right. And besides that, i noticed its in dozens of cases. Big shot bosses come in, and when you are in the defendants seat, it is minimized. And, of course, it is a loss of control. He had to wait around for a. While he got called mr. Trump. And i actually think these two events are probably related, ali. He is sort of freaking out at the diminution and humiliation of being just another defendant in the jaws of the, law and he strikes out. And i think this is a lesson in sort of going forward. Everyone assumes that all these actions only will serve to empower him, and make him politically stronger. But every time he walks in that courtroom, he is sort of lessened. He is made to seem smaller and not in control. And that is the worst thing possible for donald trump. I guess its also an argument for Donald Trumps team to make sure that there are cameras in federal court. But there arent cameras in federal. Court because it makes him look very different. Paul, there was somebody who has been at the other end of Donald Trumps ire for a long time. The speaker emerita of the house, nancy pelosi. She was on earlier. Today here is what she said about what she observed of him yesterday. I wasnt in the courtroom, of course. But when i saw his coming out of his car and this or that, i saw a scared puppy. He looked very, very, very concerned about the fate. I didnt see any bravado or confidence or anything like that. He knows. He knows truth, that he lost the election, and now he has got to face the music. Now, paul, he didnt face the judge who is going to be supervising the trial. Tanya sue chutkan yesterday, he faced a judge magistrate who is pretty firm with him. But lets just read a little bit about chutkan. Chutkan has delivered some of the harshest sentences to january 6th defendants and made her discussed and horror over the attack, clear lamenting the prospect of renewed Political Violence in 2024, and noting that no one accused of orchestrating the effort to subvert the election had been held accountable. You made a very good point, she told the January 6th RioterRobert Palmer at his december 21 sentencing, that the people who exhorted you and encouraged you and rallied you to go and take action and to fight have not been charged. The issue of who has or has not been charged is not before me. I dont have any influence on that, she said. I have my opinions. But they are not relevant. Paul, you know this judge. Tell me. So, again, on august 28th, thats the first hearing, she is going to be up and running shes given the magistrate three different dates for the attorneys to select their first appearance. And they chose august 28th, which was the last date offered. Now, they have to submit their proposed trial dates next week. And so, judge chutkan is likely to announce the date of the trial at the hearing in late august. Remember, the maralago case, the parties were not even asked about trial dates until their first appearance before judge aileen cannon. And she has announced that she has announced a trial date a few days after that. So, even before trump has set foot in her courtroom, judge chutkan is demonstrating her vast experience in managing a criminal courtroom. But ali, i dont think you could say that it is lucky for either jack smith or for donald trump, that judge chutkan was the randomly selected judge. It is fair to say, though, that it is lucky for the american people. Good point. Can i say thing, ali . Yeah. She will look him in the eye and say, not in my courtroom, mr. Trump. She will humiliate him, like a disobedient schoolchild. Its going to be a bad for day for him, august harry, as you have seen based on his behavior yesterday, do you think he is going to be a different guy in court . Because he cant manage being ten minutes out of court because he cant get in front of a camera, or post something to his truth social that is inflammatory. But he managed to keep it together for the time that he was in Court Yesterday. Is that the donald trump we are going to see . Yeah, its going to have to be. He is going to have to just take it. And he will take it. Yeah. So, once he leaves court and as i said before, he is One Step Closer, maybe many steps, but One Step Closer to a treatment that he would be a nightmare for him. Guys, good to see you as always. Thanks very much and thanks for rolling with me on this Breaking News that weve got tonight. Paul butler and harry litman coming up, the latest federal indictment of donald trump this week was yet another reminder that the lies told about our 2020 election had real and devastating consequences for those people brave enough to do the right thing and tell the truth. There is more on that coming up next. A lot of threats, wishing death upon me, telling me that i will be in jail with my mother, and saying things like, be glad it is 2020 and not 1920. The things you loved doing. Before your asthma got in the way . Get back to the things you love. With fasenra. Fasenra is an addon treatment for eosinophilic asthma. Having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. Fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils and helps prevent Asthma Attacks. Fasenra is 1 dose every 8 weeks. Fasenra can help patients to breathe better. Most patients did not have an Asthma Attack in the first year. 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A house full of screens . Basically no hiccups . You guys have no idea how good youve got it. How old are you . Like, 80 . Back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. We dont get scared. Oh, really . Mom can see your search history. Thats what i thought. Introducing the next generation 10g network. Only from xfinity. Five. Its happening, isnt it . Four. Three. Two. One. The state of arizona is referenced in Donald Trumps latest indictment 42 times, with one Arizona Republican providing evidence against donald trump and his coconspirators. But, of course, there are also plenty of republicans in that state loyal to donald trump. Its basically a tale of two Arizona Republicans. There is kari lake, the failed governor terrell candidate who continues to spread Donald Trumps election lie and shows absolutely no sign of stopping. We dont have to impeach him because he really isnt, in my opinion, and many others when you look at the evidence, the true president. Why dont we decertified 2020 . That was kari lakes response to Donald Trumps arraignment yesterday. Then there was the former speaker of the Arizona House of representative, the republican rusty bowers who refused to Donald Trumps calls to overturn the 2020 election. I swore to the constitution to uphold it and i also swore to the constitution and the laws of the state of arizona, and this is totally form as an idea or theory, to me. Donald trumps latest federal indictment details the alleged pressure that was put on rusty bowers by donald trump. Quote, on november 22nd, eight days before arizonas governor certified the ascertainment of the states illegitimate electors based on the popular vote, the defendant and coconspirator one, whom we know to be giuliani, called the speaker of the house on a House Of Representatives and made knowingly false claims of Election Fraud aimed at interfering with the ascertainment of and voting by arizonas electorates. According to the indictment, and to rusty bowers testimony before the january six committee, he asked Rudy Giuliani for evidence of Election Fraud. But never got it. My recollection is that he said, we have got lots of theories, we just dont have the evidence. And i dont know if that was a gaffe or maybe he didnt think through what he said, but both myself and others in my group, the three in my group and my counsel, both remember that specifically and afterwards we kind of laughed about it. Rusty bowers was censured by the Arizona Republican party after that testimony and he lost his state senate primaries. It is also subject of harassment and intimidation by trump supporters, and hes not the only one. Election deniers may have lost their races in 2022, but in the runup of the midterm elections, reuters reports that just in one county in arizona, quote, between july 11th and august 22nd, the Maricopa CountyElection Office documented at least 140 threats and other hostile communications, the records show. Quote, you will all be executed, said one. Quote, wire around their limbs and tied and dragged by a car, end quote, wrote another. Joining us now is the