Concerned that evidence sought by his former fixer, michael cohen, and half A Billion Dollar lawsuit, could incriminate the former president. Michael cohen goes on the record, live, a little later. And must see tv. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett joins us live to make the case for Televising The Trump trials. All of this and more is coming up. And a good saturday morning to you all, im katie phang. We begin this hour with new developments in one of the several cases against the twice impeached, now thrice and dated, one term disgraced ex president. Overnight, the department of justice, seeking to have a federal judge impose a Protective Order on criminal defendant, donald trump. In Special Counsel jack smiths 2020 election case. The doj is concerned, rightfully, in my opinion, that trump will share sensitive and confidential information. And its likes to trumps own inflammatory social media posts in which trump appears to vow revenge. Its important to note that on thursday during trumps third and probably not last arraignment, the judge told him that bribing influencing, or retaliating against witnesses is a crime, and would violate his bond. To add insult to injury, last night, during his First Campaign appearance since the arraignment, trump went after jack smith again. Calling him quote, the ranged and a lost soul. Joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u. S. Attorney in alabama and professor of law, excuse, me at the university of Alabama School of law. And barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst, former u. S. Attorney in michigan, and Law Professor at the university of michigan law school. Both are cohosts of the hashtag Sisters In Law podcast. Good morning. Ladies, its so nice to have you here. Joyce, i want to start with you. Obviously, whats top of my mind right now is this motion for Protective Order. As we all know as former prosecutors, Protective Orders are not rare in cases at all, frankly. Especially in cases like this. But joyce, when it comes to the actual Immediate Response that we got from the doj, you bet Truth Social Post, the doj did it very clear in the motion that they have a concern about a quote, harmful, Chilling Effect on witnesses or an adverse effect on other administration of justice in this case. Whats the likelihood of success for jack smith on this motion for Protective Order . So, the Protective Order, as you point out, katie, is routine. And its very likely due to be granted. Jack smith makes a compelling point in the motion that this is just for starters. That, it can be altered at the request of either party, at anytime. But once this motion is in place, discovery can move forward. Everyone is interested, maybe except for donald trump, in the expeditious administration of justice. So, i think well see the judge granted this relatively quickly. Maybe with minor alterations. But nothing in here is objectionable. You know, the marquee moments in this motion, faux, is the inclusion of trumps Truth Social Posting, where he makes what can only be seen as a threats. This is someone whos ego is so small he undoubtedly felt challenged by the federal judge who admonished him in court, that he couldnt commit any additional crimes if you wanted to stay out on a pretrial bond. So, this is his efforts to our response. And now, jack smith is showing him people call him on these responses. Thats donald trump, citizen sharp, a defendant, can no longer violate the law as he wishes to. He can no longer threaten people On Social Media. I think this is a long overdue moment. You know, barb, in fairness, there was a Statement Issued by a trump spokesperson that said that Truth Social Post everyone s on the screen was the quote, definition of political speech and was in response to write notes, et cetera. You know, barb, i just want to talk to you about this. One of the arguments or defenses thats been kind of, i say test ballooned by trumps legal idea, is this idea that chuck smith is going after him for free speech. Is this in, anyway, if this Protective Order is granted, is this, in any way, curbing Donald Trumps ability to exercise his right to free speech . That is such an excellent point, katie, but jack smith is not asking for here is any sort of gag order on donald trump. What theyre instead asking for is that he not be permitted to share any of this discovery material, or talk to or about the witnesses. You can imagine jack smith says is he wants to provide early discovery to donald trump. Sometimes, in a Violent Crime case, when youre very concerned about a witness safety, but law does not require prosecutors to turn over witnessed eight months until after the witness has testified in trial. Most judges want you to turn it over early. In this, case to move things along, jack smith said i want to turn over all these Women Statements right away. You can imagine donald trump, when he has a witness statement by hypothetically, a mark meadows or Somebody Else who was in his life, its not testifying truthfully against donald trump. We can imagine donald trump, On Social Media saying, just found that mark meadows or whoever it is fill in the blank has betrayed me. He is putting out the bat signal to all of his supporters everywhere, the kinds of people who answered a call on january six, to now target mark meadows, or whoever that witness may be. So, this Protective Order is designed very narrowly to protect the people who will be witnesses in this case, and to allow the integrity of the process to go forward. Joyce, another one of the alleged offenses we can reasonably anticipate from donald trump is this idea of reliance upon Legal Counsel. We also heard the Trump Defense team indicate he was listening to quotes, and esteemed Constitutional Styler and john eastman, putting aside i dont think a Steamed Constitutional Scholar Brits were john eastman, but you know, thats one of the possible defenses here. Were all lawyers. How feasible do you think this defense could be advanced . I want to make sure its clear our readers understands, reliance on advice of counsels and Affirmative Defense. So, what would it take, joyce, for donald trump to try to prove about Affirmative Defense during a trial . Right. So, the last part of your question, katie, is a very savvy question. Donald trump would not be able to put any of his lawyers on the witness stand that trial, because theyve been identified as coconspirators. They would have Fifth Amendment privileges against Self Incrimination. So essentially, you only way he could make out this Affirmative Defense would be by taking the witness stand himself. Which is, of course, fraud. Even if he were to do that, though, this defense is a nonstarter. And let me make an important point here. Not every argument that donald trump will make in the course of this trial will be a bad one. There are meaningful arguments that can be put forward. The defensive advice of counsel, reliance on, it is a legally recognize defense. But it does not fit the facts here. Because donald trump was out making these claims and putting these plans in motion before Rudy Giuliani really brought this secondary team of lawyers and. He was already out ahead of this. You cant rely on the advice of counsel if your counsel or your coconspirators. In a criminal prosecution, that is perhaps one of the reasons we see this inclusion. And ultimately, the defense here simply doesnt work for trump, although in other cases, it is a legitimate one. Barb, ive got less than a minute, sadly. I do want to quickly talk about that upcoming august 28th date. Judge tanya tonkin, excuse, me saying youve got to come to the table with dates for proposed trials. I wrote a piece that i got a little bit raised on, but i just want . People to understand the realities of trial scheduling. What are the realities of this case. Im talking about this january 6th case going to trial before November Of 2024 . I think its absolutely reasonable to give this case trial before the member 2024, but i think a lot of people are expecting a child with 70 days. It says the trials are right to trial in 70 days, but is the defendant himself who wants more time. The public also was the right to us to be the trial, because as time goes on, memories fade. Witnesses you come on available, so, there is an interest in a speedy trial here. I imagine there will be some kind of compromise and its the judges stop to make sure that those interests, the defendants, who Process Rights In The Public right to a speedy trial, are satisfied and absolutely can be done by having a trial maybe next summer, next spring, next fall. Certainly, before November Of 2024. Joyce vance and barbara mcquade, i always love it when you guys take the time to join me. Thanks for getting us started this morning. And coming up later, running from the law. Our friends of the show, alien muscle, inspect to explain why he says trump will either be the 47th president of the United States or spend the rest of his life in prison. You dont want to miss that. But first, destruction 2024. Donald trump could spend more time in courtrooms than on the Campaign Trail. So, is this a real chance for any of trumps challengers to pull ahead of the pack . Our saturday morning power Political Panel goes indepth, straight ahead. 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You guys have no idea how good youve got it. How old are you . Like, 80 . Back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. We dont get scared. Oh, really . Mom can see your search history. Thats what i thought. Introducing The Next Generation 10g network. Only from xfinity. Donald Trumps Campaign calendar is on a Collision Course with his courtroom calendar. He was in montgomery, alabama last night for his first event since pleading not guilty to his third indictments. Boasting that he needs one more indictment to close out the election. And Republican Voters dont seem to care that their courage frontrunner is otherwise drowning in unprecedented legal waters. Eight Reuters Ipsos poll taken after the latest indictment has trump leading florida governor, ron desantis, by 34 points. Meanwhile, trumps political rivals are crisscrossing he states of iowa and New Hampshire as they get ready for the caucuses and primaries that are less than six months away. But that doesnt seem to be making a difference, just asked desantis who has the experience of in a bit of whiplash yesterday. Desantis finally admitting trumps claims of a stolen election were bogus. But recently, i mean, within the last day, he had this to say about the quote unquote deep state. You now, where are going to have all these deep state people, you know, were going to start slipping throats on day one. And be ready to go. I cant believe people are clapping for that. Joining me now is our saturday morning Political Panel, florida for florida congressman, carlos curbelo, and democratic pollster, fernando monte. Both are msnbc political analysts. Gentlemen, its always a pleasure to have you here. Carlos, im gonna start with you. We just have that sound from desantis but he did admit that everything was focus in terms of what trump has claimed. Is this a new honest ron desantis, even though he was quoting trump voters for a while . This is a ron desantis who is understanding the strategy that he had adopted wasnt working, and was never going to work, katie. You cannot beat someone by following them. You cannot beat someone by constantly admiring them and praising them even once so many people know that person is lying. So, desantis is finally realizing, im going to have to distinguish myself a little bit from donald trump. Im not just going to be able to follow him to win the nomination. Desantis has used the trump playbook in the past. Thats how he became governor of florida. The problem this time is trumps standing in his way. So hes going to have to use another playbook, and i think hes starting to realize that. You know, fernand, lets go into your space. That new york time releasing a poll this week both been pulled before the arraignment that happens. Donald trump commanding and opposing lead, but by friday, eight new Reuters Ipsos poll conducted after that third indictment showed that he increase that lead by three points. But pence, pence moved up five points, and desantis tumbled over ten. Fernandes, the gop officially become the party of no law and no order . Well katy, thats been the case for at least five years, from my looks at it. Look. The fact of the matter is this is not Donald Trumps nomination. The best thing that has happened, ironically, has been these indictments. In his Cult Of Personality base, hes able to play the victim. Hes doing that strategically, deliberately, and thats why you see him increases numbers. That 34 point lead basically renders ron desantis, also ran desantis, his candidacy, i believe, is now over. And you are looking at who else might emerge. It might be tim scott. It might be nikki haley, it might be vivek. But were gonna look at Somebody Else, for all intents and purposes, donald trump has the locker head locked on to this. Hes going to take it away from them. You know carlos even pence, though, was able to fundraise. Pretty effectively, off of this latest indictment. But last night, he had a town hall. He got booed. He got booed and called a traitor. I know the question that a post you regarding ron desantis. Is there still some merit and value to the idea of Courting Market Trump Voters . Should mike pence actually take a place out of that desantiss new playbook and say no, im definitely going to distance myself from donald trump . Look, katie, i dont know if that strategy is going to work. Its the only one that can work. Donald trump is a chronic and compulsive liar. The only way you can hope to beat him, and it will be tough, because a lot of these voters are so committed to him, but the only way you can hope to beat him is with the truth. Its by telling people, this is what actually happens. In 2020. This is what happened on january six. We dont want to go back to that. Republicans, we want to win in 2024. This is not donald trump, the candidate, who is most likely to help us. When that is the only strategy. Thats the only way. But these candidates are driven by their fear of trump and the maga base, that they refused to say this. The longer they refused to say it, the longer theyre going to be lagging in the po