To possible witness intimidation, to questionable defense arguments. 100 questions for and Andrew Weissmann. And later, served as an Impeachment Manager and on the january Six Committee. Congressman jamie raskin joins me live to discuss his reactions to the charges and what she is watching for next. For the third time informants, the former president of the United States has been indicted, arrested, and arraigned. Lets face, that we have become oddly familiar with how this all goes. There is the release of the indictment itself, helicopters falling blackest movies, and of course, the court sketches, all followed by a barrage of deranged posts on so there is a rinse and repeat feeling that starting to sudden. This one did feel different because it is different. Felt bigger because it is bigger. The indictment filed by Special Counsel jack smith this week detailed the ways in which an american president engaged in a criminal conspiracy from the oval office to subvert the will of the people. Of course, like any criminal defendant, trump is innocent of Proven Guilty there will. Be a trial, and his legal team will announce the defense. No matter how downs, this is the one historians will be talking about 100 years from now. Trump is now facing four criminal counts in this case, including Conspiracy To Defraud the United States, obstruction of an official proceeding, and conspiracy against the right of americans to vote and have their vote counted. Now, there will be a lot of political analysis and speculation about what this law means and the impact it could have on the race in 2024. Im here to tell you most of those predictions are a little more than wild guesses at this point. They made bear no resemblance to what we actually see in 15 months when the election rolls around. This is ultimately not about politics. It should not be talked about only through the political prism. It is not about joe biden, it is not about the republican or the democratic party, it is about a coordinated attempt to up and democracy itself by a sitting president. To quote from the indictment, its about a concerted effort to, quote, create an Intense National atmosphere of mistrust and anger, and road public faith in the administration of the election. Heres the thing, donald trump hasnt learned a single lesson, doesnt seem that way at least. Hasnt changed his behavior at all. Thats probably why the judge is that his or brain explicitly warned him, to his face, that its a crime to influence jurors or threat threaten anyone with information about his case. 24 hours after he was released on bond, he issued this message and all caps on truth social. Saying, quote, if you go after me, im coming after you. It did not go unnoticed. A few hours later, Special Counsel jack smith cited that threatening post in requests for protective order. Basically prosecutors are raising concerns that trumps gonna publicly share the evidence that they give to his lawyers and use his platform, Social Media Platforms to intimidate witnesses. That seems like a reasonable concern, unfortunately. Especially since trump posted another threatening message late yesterday, attacking former Vice President , mike pence. Who is a witness in the case against him. Of course, this is exactly what we have come to expect from trump, will do everything in his power to make this about politics and cast himself as a martyr, as the victim. He wants a public debate about who is for him, whose against him. He wants us to talk about his poll numbers and whether this indictment will strengthen or weaken his campaign. What he doesnt want is the discussion of facts. The truth, is what trump fears most is the facts. The facts will prove more stubborn than he is. He wont be able to spin, cudgel, threaten, or otherwise why is way out of this, he will lose control. He doesnt want to turn mine to the people who made this indictment possible or not joe biden or even merrick garland, their his own supporters. Not just republicans, but maga republicans throughout the indictment. Does not want us to talk about the Additional Details that jack smith may have. So, thats exactly what were going to do over the course of the next hour. Joining me now is ron klain, President Bidens former chief of staff and my former boss. Great to see you. Great to be back, thanks, jen. You have more experience in washington in every job there is an almost everyone. I think part of what we need to address here is, what is normal . Whats my . I want to start first with this post. Trump posted, if you go after me, i am going to go after you. Youre familiar with worrying about security threats. How concerned should we be about those type of posts . Ould w i think, as you discus, this is an effort by the former president to try to intimidate witnesses who may testify. As you noted, the witnesses in this case or not democrats, they arent trump haters, theyre people who are his closest advisors, loyal Vice President , mike pence, likely will be a witness in this case. Hes trying to intimidate people who know the truth, they want him to tell the truth. Is that normal . No. Its not normal. Its criminal on top of Everything Else. When you were reading this, i havent had a chance to ask or talk to you about this, you are the incoming chief of staff when this all happened. You are preparing to leave during covid, during a really hard time in our country. What did you think when you read the . I thought how close it came to succeeding. The indictment is a damning indictment of what donald trump tried to do to keep the American People from having their will in the election, trying to overturn the election, interfering, obstruct the lawful process an orderly transfer of power. I think its hard to read it and not think how close it came to working. That is the scariest thing of, all of all of this. The other question i never asked you about. During the transition, as a Spokes Person on the transition, you are the incoming chief of staff. I remember being worried the night before january 6th about Delay Tactics being used on the floor. But not about the level of violence or the level of security threats. What were you worried about at the time . Same thing i was worried, about an effort to delay and postpone. There was talk that Vice President pence was not gonna show up to preside. I wonder what that, omenta turned out to be true i did not think that a mob would break into the capitol and and the tabulation of votes. There were times on january six for i was fearful that donald trump would not leave the office and that joe biden would never be sworn in as president because they would not be able to resume the tabulation of electrical votes. Trumps former chief of staff, mike meadows, not mentioned in the indictment. There is speculation he is cooperating. You dont have any information on that. You did hold the same job. And what struck me is the chief of staff has access, so much access to the president , so much information. What kind of information or access to have four people are trying to understand this . A lot of access, a lot of information, are supposed to use it for lawful purposes. The question here, there is a conspiracy that developed in the white house. A conspiracy to not let the will of voters be the conspiracy to stop the lawful process of the transition of power. The question, is who is involved in that conspiracy . White house chief of staff, your job is to learn the conspiracies going on and stop, it keep it away from the president. Instead, it appears the president himself, with the help of his closest aides, had this conspiracy, executed this conspiracy, as i said, nearly succeeded in that. One of the things that was also striking, even more so if he worked in the white house, trump basically went around the typical legal advisers, the acting Attorney General, white House Counsel, mike pence described the team of lawyers he went to as a crack pot lawyer, to mike pence. However normal is that for a president to go outside of the Attorney General, the white House Counsel, and others . It gives Crack Pozzebon name. I think what happened here was ridiculous. Obviously, an effort to break the law. Bill barr was Donald Trumps handpicked Attorney General. Put him as Attorney General when he forced out Attorney General sessions. And then bill barr was the Attorney General. Bill bowler told him there is no basis, had a giant falling, out barr resigned. And then he put acting Attorney General, that person told him, basically, the Justice Department has no rule here. You have to have a legal challenge to it. Legal challenge field cause theres no basis for. And then trump ignored the legal advice whos getting from his normal legal advisers. The white House Counsel excluded from meetings, trump brought in these people who are part of his conspiracy to try and overturn the results of the election. There is nothing like this thats ever been seen before. The other thing that struck. We certainly werent and, there although we were on the transition. The Vice President claimed he didnt know about the electors plot. Youve been the chief of staff to a Vice President and president. I dont buy that. I mean, im interested in white your gut instinct was to that . Hard to know what they did or didnt tell mike pence. They were clearly trying to pressure mike pence to do something yet no Legal Authority to do, which is to stop the counting of Electoral College and overturn particular electoral votes. Something that no Vice President has ever done before, theres no legal basis to do it. And others also rejected this possibility. Al gore, 2000, presided over the Electoral College tabulation, resulted in him not being elected president. The Vice President , its an unfortunate and hard task, its common. Pressuring pence not to do his legal duty. Didnt have the Legal Authority to do what he did or didnt tell, we just dont know. One of the debates out there, whether there should be cameras in the tre is an argument for tt for transparency purposes. Youre the chief of staff trying to settle the country. What do you think of cameras in the courtroom . Are you for it . Id be ford in this case. First of all, i generally favor cameras in the courtroom. I think the judicial process should be more transparent. You know, i think we have cameras in congress for proceedings. We should have cameras in the courtroom generally. I think, specifically, here, given the crimes that are alleged, an effort to essentially overthrow the government, the public has the right to see this trial. The Public Confidence in the trial will be critical. I would ask you to put your Senate Judiciary chairman had on for a second. As i understand it, chief Justice Roberts would have to decide that cameras could be in the courtroom. Is there anything that the senate can do or the Judiciary Committee can do to compel that to be the case . The congress could pass a law requiring cameras, requiring all Federal Judiciary Proceedings be televised i. Dont think thats gonna happen. The decision will rest with the chief justice. I understand the competing considerations here, i think its a special case. I think there should be televised access to the case. Youve known the president for so long. Came in at such a difficult moment in history. Part of the impact of trump questioning the outcome is that an overwhelming majority of republican voters, still, to this day, dont believe President Biden was legitimately elected, despite court cases and everything. How do you think . Do you think he bears the scars of that . I dont think he bears the scars of that. Look, look at the job President Bidens done in these two years. Hes worked with republicans, work even with mitch mcconnell, even closer to get things done. Hes worked with Kevin Mccarthy to get the Debt Limit Situation navigated this year. Hes passed Bipartisan Legislation, bipartisan infrastructure bills, Bipartisan Legislation temperance, bipartisan gun control legislation. Hes been able to work with republicans on capitol hill as much as theyve been willing to work with him. Hes gone the extra mile. , so i think hes done everything he can to be president for all americans. One more thing, look at these bills he passed, these bills have Major Investments in clean energy, infrastructure, and all the studies show most of the money of those bills are going to republican states. Massive job creation. Some taking credit for. Some of taking credit, voted against a. The point, as hes a president for all americans, tournament this country better in every one of the 50 states, no regard to politics. I think thats who joe biden is. Its what he was collected to do. Its what he has been doing as president. I think people can now see why i can disco talk to for ten minutes before briefing and all the things i need to know. Thank you so much for joining me. Things are having, we appreciate it. Coming, up you dont have to be a lawyer. Im not. To understand how ridiculous trumps legal teams defenses are in this case. Were gonna go through some of their favorite arguments one by one. Plus, to the trump allies who are calling this whole thing a political witch hunt know how much of the evidence in this case came from trump allies . And later, a look back at the work of the january Six Committee and the look ahead to this trial is Congressman Jamie Raskin. Were Getting Started today. We will be right back. L be rightac bk. Rything and now theyre slicing their deli meats fresh. Thats why this qb profers the new five meat beast. And this qb profers it. And if we profer it. We know youll profer it too. Are you trying to outspokesperson me . Maybe. Want a smarter way to mop . Introducing the new swiffer powermop. An allinone Cleaning Tool with hundreds of Scrubbing Strips that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. Mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop. After advil dual action back pain. Yo uh ha ha [dog bark] what . My back feels better. Before advil. New advil dual action back pain fights back pain two ways. For 8 hours of relief. 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Okay, for full transparency, like most of you watching, i am not a lawyer. But you dont exactly need to be avid to recognize that the arguments by trumps legal team dont exactly hold up. I mean, they appear to be three things pretty focused on, repeating over and over. And each of them feels worthy of some scrutiny. Stick with me here. We are g