Glimpse into the defenses lawyers will make on the stand. Here is jonna lauro on meet the press. The defense is quite simple. Donald trump, president trump, believed in his heart of hearts that he had won that election. And as any american citizen, he had a right to speak out under the First Amendment. He had a right to petition governments around the country, state governments. Based on his grievances that Election Irregularities had occurred. He had every right to speak about the important issues that were taking place after the election. A technical violation of the constitution is not a violation of criminal law. That is just plain wrong. Except a technical violation of the constitution by definition is still a violation of the constitution. The constitution, in six different places, opposes insurrection and our constitution is designed to stop people from trying to overthrow elections, and trying to overthrow the government. Moments later, democratic congressman jamie raskin responded to lauro by making that point. He conspired to defraud the american people. Out of our right to an honest election. By substituting the real, Legal Process we have under federal and state law, with counterfeit electors. I mean, there are people who are in jail for several years, for counterfeiting one vote. If they try to vote illegally once, he tried to steal the entire election. And his lawyers up there are saying oh, that is just a matter of him expressing his First Amendment rights. That is deranged. That is a deranged argument. Deranged. That is how he described the actions of trumps lawyer. The person whos actually supposed to be the best equipped and sane person to defend donald trump. This, as trumps team has less than 24 hours now to respond to the Special Counsels protective order motion. Prosecutors want to bar trump from making public any evidence during the Discovery Phase of the trial, fearing that it could be used to intimidate witnesses. This, after judge tanya checkin rejected a request from trumps team to delay their response to that motion. Lo and behold, trump said that he will be asking judge chutkan to recuse herself from the case, on what he called very powerful rounds. Now, that seems like a sound legal strategy that is short to work. Attack the judge that is actually overseeing this case. Im sure this chaos is of particular interest to Fulton County a, fani willis, who, by all accounts, is likely to bring charges against trump for Election Interference in georgia, by the end of this month. Here is willis this week. Are you guys ready for whats to come in the next couple of weeks . We are ready. Willis says that she has read jack smiths latest indictment and says, nothing will change her plans to move forward. She also says there is no connection between her case and jack smiths. Also ready to go, the sheriff in Fulton County, patrick la bought. He said this week that if trump is indicted in georgia, he will not receive special treatment. He will be booked and photographed like any other defendant. Joining me now, maya wylie, former assistant u. S. Attorney and president of the Leadership Conference on civil and human rights. Tara, Lincoln ProjectSenior Advisor and former gop communications director. And hayes brown, writer and editor for msnbc daily. Great to have the three of you with us this evening. Miles, i will start with you. One of the points trumps lawyer is making is that trump truly believed he won the election. But in the indictment, we see time and time again, that he was told by mike pence, the u. S. Intelligence official, Justice Department leaders, state legislators, advisers, anyone who can get within earshot of the president that the Election Fraud claims were false. So, a, does it matter what donald trump believed, so long as he was trying to convince others to go along with his plan . And be, why does jack smith even have to entertain what donald trump believed at the time . We have to separate out the a little bit, but let me just say the bottom line here. His first of all, you can prove intent with all of the evidence that we are seeing in this indictment. In other words, any jury i would expect to hear it from the prosecutors to say, if he wants to convince you that he didnt know, after every republican he talked to from his campaign, to the republicans he appointed to be in his own administration and cabinet, to the republicans who have been his allies in state houses from the nevada, arizona, georgia, that all of these folks from his own party and in his own camp apparently hoping that he would win the 2020 election, all told him, repeatedly, over and over again, that he had lost. But he still believed it, i mean, thats actually a very common way of demonstrating the intent is to circumstantial evidence, where a reasonable person would go, oh, come on. There is simply no way. He was just shopping for the people who are going to agree with him. That is how i would expect it to play out, but that last in particular, the civil rights amount, the ku klux klan act, that is account where what you have to show is that your purpose was to block vote counting, was to take voices away from voting. Your purpose, everything this indictment says was the words directly in Donald Trumps mouth. With many witnesses, including now publicly, mike pence, his former vp, are going to and, are saying, yeah, he really didnt want those votes to be counted. In fact, in the indictment, there were that Donald Trumps own mouth. When hes having a meeting with mike pence. Really picking and choosing what argument he wants best, the one he likes best, its the one where mike pence could unilaterally, unilaterally, block the votes. Yeah, tara, your reaction to trumps increasing attacks on both jack smith and judge chutkan . Its surprising, but its not surprising. We see him go after every Single Person that stands in his way, and he does it in a very ugly, racist, demeaning, vulgar way. Its no surprise that hes doing it now, but at the same time, you also have to wonder just how insane you must be to not recognize who it is that you are going after in this moment. Yeah, donald trump is completely unhinged and as we watch his behavior, this is the behavior of a scared little boy. It is clear, because the way he lashes out, he only does this when he is, he feels like hes not in control. So, he can go ahead, he goes ahead, he lashes out, he insults, he puts on these crazy on hinged ranch on his truth social network. And really, he is, because he is so afraid of jack smith, you know, jack smith is the Polar Opposite of donald trump, and he knows it. Trump isnt ignorant, gelatinous fool, and he isnt disciplined, he is maniacal, hes a malignant narcissist. All the things that jack smith is not. Jack smith is disciplined, hes focused, hes sharp. And guess what . Hes in control. So, whenever donald trump starts to do this, we know that its just a projection mechanism. Because he doesnt have anything else. This is what fuels him and it really, we take a step back and look at the things that donald trump has tweeted out, has said, has said publicly, this is a sick individual and you have an entire Republican Party that is making excuses, using these spurious constitutional excuses for his behavior when their lives were endangered, based on his behavior. And they are still defending him. He is a National Security risk, they know it. Hes a threat to our democracy, they know it. But they dont give a darn because they want to be in power and they are cowards to stand up to it. I think that that is incredibly infuriating for all of The Americans who are not part of this Personality Cult that follows donald trump. That it is an insult to us, as americans, that these people are trying to feed this bs to us as if we didnt see it all happen. As if we are not watching it happen right now. There has to be accountability and jack smith and his team, and judge chutkan, they are all going to make sure that, under our laws, we are still a nation of laws, that donald trump is held accountable to this. And its about time. Hey, speaking of judge chutkan, the government is expecting a response from trumps team monday at five pm eastern on the motion for a protective order, after that request for an extension was denied by the judge. At this point, what kind of rebuttal could they have left . I mean, i am always fascinated to see the legal document that the trump team actually put out there, because when you look at them, theyre often so shallow and so politically based, that its almost laughable. Trumps lawyer, who was on earlier today, who was talking about the technical violation of the constitution, lauro, he went on to say that, you know, the fact that you cant charge trump, based on this, it goes back to decades worth of cases and laws, and i really doubt that any of those will come into play. Any of those supposed laws, the supposed precedence that he is fighting, will come into play in any of the legal documentation moving forward. So, im very excited to read this defense, saying that, oh no, we cant guarantee that the former president wont say these sorts of things that theyre trying to say. It is going to be a fun read and im very excited to see what chutkans response is going to be, because she has shown already that shes not willing to play with these delays, these Delaying Tactics that we have seen. This is another one. Another one is going to be the attempt to try to get her to recuse herself or change of venue. Why change venue . It all happened in washington, d. C. It is all a delay tactic and or an attempt to push the politics of it out there, because trump knows that the only way for him to get out of this, at this point, is for him to win the presidency again. So, he wants to make fewer legal arguments and more political ones. I was going to say, i know what you mean by saying its going to be a fun read. But to taras point that, you know, with their attack on our democracy, really, its not fun and games to see them kind of enter these terminologies into our lexicon. You know, we had alternative facts with Kellyanne Conway and now with this lawyer, we have a technical violation of the constitution. That is breaking the law, for people who are out there who have think, like, we are the Law And Order party. When you are violating the constitution, you are breaking the law in this country. Maya, let me shift gears to georgia for a moment. Its been reported that fani willis may use the rico statute, which is a method used to actually target organized crime. One, that the District Attorney has used actually many times before. Some experts say that the statute might be stretched in Donald Trumps case. Your thoughts on what is the best approach here . Well, look. You know, i expect, first of all, that we might see many different types of accounts. So, there is enough fraud, theft in the state of georgia and in addition to that, you know, she has used it successfully in the state and remember that one of the tools that the rico statute gives is the ability, essentially, to show, no, you dont have to show theres a criminal enterprise. You dont have to show that there is the existence of something, although in this case, there is. There is a campaign, theres administration, there is the relationships among the group of people. But at the same time, you know, what you have to show to theyre acting in concert to do something, to do something that is a shared purpose. I think just as we have seen it in the indictment in d. C. , you know, the facts are the same and in fact, the georgia section of the federal indictment is the largest of the second by any of the stakes. And when you think about it that way, you think about the strength of that particular state, that is the evidence that we know that fani willis is also looking at, in order to apply for her own statute. So, its not a weak case, by any stretch of the imagination, and she can charge the Election Fraud as well. Hey, tara, trump tried to have this investigation halted through the court. Those efforts have all been rejected, but what does it indicate you that hes tried so hard to stop this case from proceeding before a decision has actually been made on to whether or not he will be indicted . Well, hes tried to skirt responsibilities his entire life for his wrongdoings. Its a professional scott law, so this is his m o. He has been involved in thousands of cases. Hes a vexatious litigant, so delay, delay, delay. Its further delay of accountability for him. So, plus, he also knows that the strength of these cases, they are pretty strong. And he knows it. And he is running scared. What we often do not talk about with this are the people who suffered at the hands of this scheme. What about ruby freeman and her daughter . And what happened to them. And theyre powerful testimony during the January 6th Committee . Because of this scheme and the lies that were told on behalf of donald trump and giuliani, all these other people with these ridiculous claims of voter fraud, which didnt exist. What about all the lies of the Police Officers that suffered on january 6th as a result of Donald Trumps behavior and this incitement of that insurrection . What about the four Police Officers who committed suicide after january six who responded to them and their families . And how the republicans and trump have been so disrespectful to their effort, to the officers that responded that day, to harry dunn, to michael fanone. Do all the others who have been bremen off to speak out, . There have been so many lives that have been shattered and impacted, and careers impacted because of what this guy has done and the enablers that continue to give him cover. Its about time that they pay a price for this and if its not georgia, then its going to be jack smith or maybe its going to be everybody. But if anything, its got to be at the ballot box because donald trump is going to be the nominee. Ive got news for folks. None of this is going to matter to the republicans and that is pretty shameful, a sad State Of Affairs for that party. Hayes, you know, one of the interesting things about the georgia case is that there was this journalist who happened to stumble upon the December 2020Fake Electors Meeting in georgia, who will provide testimony, i believe sometime this week. Hes the first witness whose name has actually surfaced in this case. Its clear that even as willis is about to bring charges, that she is still investigating. Theres still more details to be uncovered here. Yeah, absolutely, and whats fascinating about that is just how much of this was carried out in the open. Like, i guess the one of the only people who have been there as a witness to see what was going on with these electors, but they were talking about this openly. In the post election period, they were talking on the day that the electors, the real electors, were casting their electoral votes, december 14th, 2020. It was in many publications that these alternate electors were also meeting. Whats fascinating reading through jack smiths indictment is that the trump team was willing to lie to their own people about what the role those fake electors were playing would be in their schemes. So, the fact that fani willis is still pulling together even more evidence related to this scheme, related to how dedicated the idea was that yes, we are going to change the results of the election, to make sure that joe biden does not get these electoral votes, that is powerful. I think that its fantastic that shes still trying to make this case even more airtight. With all of the evidence and we early have that shes already gathered, a full special grand jury panel who heard evidence report and the fact that shes still trying to really nail down as many details as possible, i think that speaks well to whatever case actually comes forward to trial in the future. All right, hayes brown, tara step my, maya wylie, thank you to the three of you for starting us off tonight. Greatly appreciate it, as always. Coming up, i will be joined by the former lead investigator, the january 6th select committee, to discuss how jack smiths indictment vindicates the work his team did. But first, Richard Louis is here with the headlines. Hey, richard. Hey man, very good evening to you. A Train Derailment in pakistan has left at least 30 people dead and at least 80 injured. Ten cars of the Hazara Express went off the tracks. Many passengers were trapped between overturned cars. The countrys Minister Of Railways says, the crash could be due to sabotage or mechanical fault. An investigation is underway. Ukrainian officials are saying, a russian guided air bomb hit a Blood Transfusion Center in ukraine saturday, killing two people, and injuring for. Ukraines president says, the attack was a war crime that, quote, says everything about russian aggression. And the u. S. Womens soccer team is now out of the world cup. They lost to longtime rivals, sweden, in the round of 16 in the penalty shootout. Though it is the worst finish for u. S. Women, they remain the most dominant team in womens world cup history. More ayman with Ayman Mohyeldin right after this break. H Ayman Mohyeldi right after this break right after this break subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with School Supplies students need. We