Veteran Former Mueller prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, seem right there back at work Andrew Weissmann. We are teeing off his expertise and legal analysis in his msnbc podcast with mary mccord who is also with us tonight. That is right here on your screen prosecuting donald trump. Before we get in any further, i want to begin with an open question to you that i think is on a lot of peoples minds in all fairness, can defended trump get a fair trial with these primaries approaching . Great question. I would broaden that question out. I would say can the government and the defendant get a fair trial . The answer to that is yes, that is going to put a lot of pressure on the judge in the d. C. Case, in the florida case, in the manhattan case. Its remarkable that were talking about three separate criminal cases and maybe even another one. But its important to know that both sides are need her entitle to a fair trump affair trial. And ultimately what the judge needs to do make sure that a jury is able to turn all of that noise off and its going to try to turn that that jury heres whats going on in the courtroom and makes a decision based on. That its interesting, his lawyers we can get overly positive nostalgic about the system when it works, but you are reminding everyone both sides, fair trial. Actually, i think we can all agree in a non partisan basis, tuning out the noise, and whatever is in theyre focused on facts and evidence. That leads to an acquittal, leads to a mistrial, thats consistent, but lets look at this evidence. Absolutely. The hard part in a case like this where its so prominent and ive had to deal with it is the jurors Lesson Candidate who tries to get on a jury. And people say what you mean a jury was to get on a jury . I still wake up in the morning and i cant wait to do jury service. And highprofile matter that is the biggest concern that the government is gonna have in the judge is gonna have is making sure they weeded out those people. Because you want to completely neutral dispassionate jury. A really good example of that as the manafort case. The one juror at the trial who spoke said she was a maga republican, she had a red maga hat. And i love this. She said i left my hat in the car. House just a great symbolic way of saying i have an oath of office and i did my job. She voted to convict. She had a very cute line afterwards. She said let me give some advice to President Trump who is it present at the time. Paul manafort should not be pardoned. And she acted out of principle. That is what you are looking for, somebody who is if the government is not prove its case is going to say, you know what . Not guilty. Theyre not prove the case Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and they have the gonna do with the judge instructs. Thats so well put and fascinating. You talked about someone who shared the former president s 2016 campaign. Not. Nobody ballots turned to these trials investigations from three prosecutors and four probes, at least in your day, Hush Money Scheme that weve been following. Special counsel smith both overseeing the classified documents probe and the probe into the coup, and there is what everyone has been talking about lee recently, georgias d. A. Reconvening a grand jury in that long running into election interference probe. This is on president. I examined in fort jurisdictions that occurred before, during and after his presidency. The trials for at least some of these indictments will likely occur as trump is trying to win the presidency again during the campaign as were just discussing. And by election day, there may be at least one jury that has reached its verdict. If convicted and if the Republican Party were to stand by the unprecedented prospect of running a convict as its nominee, then the voting public will decide how much that is a factor for their choices president of november 2024. We are living through these unprecedented times. And its a challenge for prosecutors as well, with the most highprofile defendant in history. And the realities of an external voting calendar. Lets bring it congresswoman zoloft karen from california, member the january Six Committee. Andrew . Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us tonight. Happy to be here. So one of the people whos gone a lot of attention recently with the New York Times running a front page story as mr. Chesebro. I know that you as part of the january Six Committee deposed him or interviewed him as part of that committee and you were present for that. He seems to be well every but hes focused on mr. Eastman, he seems to be quite a strong participant in the fake elector Scheme Writing three different memos. I guess i want to start with since you are somebody who sat there and listened to him, what were your impressions for the substance of his testimony his, demeanor, what did you make of him . Well, i think hes a trooper lever. He wrote actually four memos, three that the committee had and one that we didnt outlining really the plot to overturn the election. You know, i dont know the man but he certainly was focused on overturning the election and i think my believe is he will be held criminally to account for that. So one of the things that you mention was this idea that the roads separate memos but the committee only had three of them. What is the reason for that . Is it because it was privileged, that somebody didnt turn over what they shouldve turned over to the committee . Because that memo that is referred to in the indictments, the New York Times seems to have been able to obtain it just recently, it seems to be pretty devastating if the reporting is cracked where mr. Chesebro really lays out this scheme as you mentioned to overturn the election, if that was the real goal of the fake electors scheme. How did the committee not have it . And i dont mean that because it didnt do the job, i mean in terms of what happened at in terms of not being turned over to you . Well i dont know the answer, i dont believe it was any kind of privilege log, but we werent provided the memo. The other memos were similar but not as direct as the memo we did not receive. And i think its quite damning. This was an intentional effort to create fake electors and to overturn the election. To have the Vice President recognize them on january 6th instead of the real electors or to somehow send them back to the states when no stated asked for that. Its part and parcel of This Multi Faceted plots essentially a coup. One of the things that is come up lately is sort of a defense do sure that this was only seeking a pause in some way as if thats somehow a mini coup is better than a full coup. I was wondering what your take was on the side iitate is just a pause that is being sought. You have such deep experience in terms of being a congresswoman but also before that in terms of Law Enforcement. Whats your take on that defense . I think its ridiculous. For one thing, i understand Vice President pences publicly said it was not even true, he was asked to reject. And certainly that was even after the riot there were calls into the senate asking them to reject, to send it back to the states, that the states wanted them back. Thats overturning the election. To say that we are not gonna count the votes on january 6th as the Electoral Count act in the u. S. Constitution provides is overturning the election. You know, these people are grasping for straws. Congresswoman, given everything thats happening, want to show a key part of some of the testimony your committee gathered. Lets take a. Look in the days leading up to the six, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the Electoral Count. I dont care if they have weapons are not here to her. Me im the effing president , taking up to the capital now. It jolted the nation. We read that it jolted the doj. Im curious what we know now as many are waiting on even a possibility of a fourth indictment potentially a georgi, what you think the history should say about this committee. We mentioned your watergate experience. With no disrespect to the committee or congress, as andrew knows, well the Justice Department doesnt care much about what members of committees conclude, surmise or think even if its a coequal branch. Doj supposed to caroline about evidence if, it turns out to be leaked video, could be voluminous testimony like we just saw, could be independent reporting. It seems to me, im curious what you say, that ultimately the Special Counsel determined the, meticulous work this committee did, not his conclusions per se, were relevant if not determinative . Id say so. If you read the indictment, its basically the committee report. They did not indict on the Incitement Referral that we made and i think thats probably smart. Its complicated and if you want to get a conviction in a very clean manner, the other statutes are easier. But as Mitch Mcconnell said after the impeachment, practically and morally trump was responsible for the riot and although he did not vote to impeach because trump is no longer in office, he did point out that trump should be held accountable either under the civil law or criminal law. Thats whats happening here. Congressman, one of the things that the committee did when you are done with your work was turned over so much information to the public, not just doj but so everyone could see it along with your report which is really commendable so everybody can see the data for themselves. I did have a question, because there are certain transcripts and im not much of a nerd that i focus on this stuff. There were certain transcripts that were not turned over publicly. For instance, to senior people who worked for brad raffensperger, that wasnt made public. I think judge luttigs transcript was not made public as well. I want if you could tell us what that was, why certain transcripts were not made public . We had about four terabytes of data that is available under the gpo. Honestly, it was a mad scramble to get this report done in the closing days of december with members hunkered down in washington personally doing the editing. We did have a couple of Law Enforcement sensitive matters that we sent for review to both the white house and also dhs urging them to decide how the archives should handle these materials. And that was something we thought was prudent. I dont know that theres ever been another committee that has provided the information that this one did. Ordinarily, there will be footnotes but you never have the information that is footnoted. We put out virtually everything we had. We never coordinated with the department of justice because that wasnt our rule. We are a separate branch. But we gave everything out i believe to the public. Of course the department of justice cant rely on our transcripts. They have to do their own investigation and their own interviews and the like. But i think well laid at the evidence that was very important for them to reach their conclusions. Really stunning to hear that from the. On a serious no, he described the indictments partially the blueprint from the report is striking in your silverstone. On a lighter note congresswoman, we learned that tonight of the four or five people in the world who have tracked which the many transcripts were publicly released or not, one of them is here, so i just dont think a lot of people in the weeds like that. Congressman, good to see. Good to be seen and thanks for letting me participate. Absolutely, appreciate your time. Coming up, well be joined by andrews cohost on this prosecuting donald trump caucus, thats mary mccord for a large portion of tonights events. Were excited to have everyone. Were also gonna discuss the Criminal Intent issues and the socalled seinfeld can stands a defense. The big show. A lot coming up with all eyes on all the probes including georgia. Well be right back. Right back. D i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Thats why i switched to dovato. Dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. No other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. Detect this most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. Dovato is as effective with just 2. If you have hepatitis b, dont stop dovato without talking to your doctor. Dont take dovato if youre allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. This can cause serious or lifethreatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. Serious or lifethreatening lactic acid buildup and Liver Problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have kidney or Liver Problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. Dovato may harm an unborn baby. Most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. Detect this i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. Ask your doctor about switching to dovato. We really dont want people to think of feeding food like ours is spoiling their dogs. Good, real food is simple. It looks like food, it smells like food, its what dogs are supposed to be eating. No living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. Its amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. The farmers dog is just our way to help people take care of them. Are you a new at t customer looking to upgrade your phone . Youre trapped locked into your contract for three years. Introducing the easy unlock. Bring your at t locked phone and tmobile will pay it off and give you one of the latest 5g smart phones free free your phone now at tmobile what do we always say, son . Liberty mutual customizes your Car Insurance. So you only pay for what you need. Thats my boy. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. dad we got our Subaru Forester wilderness only pay for what you need. To discover all of the places that make us feel something more. vo subaru is the National Park foundations largest corporate donor, helping expand access for all. So. I know you and george were struggling with the possibility of having to move. Hows that going . We found a way to make bathing safer with a kohler walkin bath. A kohler walkin bath provides a secure, spalike Bathing Experience in the comfort of your own home. A kohler walkin bath has one of the lowest stepins of any walkin bath for easy entry and exit. It features textured surfaces, convenient handrails for more stability, and a wide door for easier mobility. Kohler® walkin baths include two hydrotherapies Whirlpool Jets and our patented bubblemassage™ to help soothe sore muscles in your feet, legs, and back. A kohlercertified installer will install everything quickly and conveniently in as little as a day. They made us feel completely comfortable in our home. And, yes, its affordable. I wish we would have looked into it sooner. Think i might look into one myself. Stay in the home and life youve built for years to come. Call. And take advantage of defended donald trump is our no interest accused of deliberately committing election crimes. Indeed the word knowingly is used 36 times in that indictment describing Criminal Intent, pushing the conspiracy of election lies. It was fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing the Bedrock Function of the u. S. Government. The indictment lays out that evidence to show that trump knew his claims were false. When trump found out pence was not gonna go ahead with the certification, he says youre too honest. If youre on the other side of that statement he, said you be a liar. And during a Military Meeting with his military advisers, to the presidencys over, he said the idea, right is too late for us. Were gonna give that to the next guy. Also he secretly told others that when sydney powell was pushing her conspiracies about why trump really won, he called her crazy. How trump knew he lost, the preview of what might come star witness testimony a trial. He was looking can, you believe a lost this effing guy. The president says i think it couldve been pompeo, but he says words to the effect of, yeah we lost, well let that go to the next guy, meaning president biden. So he had said something to the effect of, i dont want people to know we lost mark. This is embarrassing. Figured out, we need to figure it out, i dont want people to know that we lost. So thats all pretty damning, and again thats from inside the team. Weve heard this defense that while trump doubly the election was stolen from him. This has been kicking around not so much about legal experts who noted the doj doesnt even have to prove that trump knew he lost, although they have that evidence is a told, is not any kind of legal requirement, its a variant of what this signed fathers calls the costanza defense. So whats on your mind. Jerry, just remember, its not a lie if you believe it. Which is technically true. What trump did or did not believe is not the point. You can believe that the bank has your money and you might even pass Ally Detector Test or not because of your own confusion about which bank you bank with where you put your money. That will not be a defense to robbing a bank or committing a conspiracy, for example conspire with other people to do so. A federal judge made a Point Take A Look at the recent evidence from this january six rioter. This was after he stormed the capitol. This is a photo that many people to, just telling himself he, was climbing a trial that he still to that day believe the election was stolen. Costanza. The judge found guilty and he said even if the defendant generally believed the election was stolen, that does not change the fact that he acted corruptly with consciousness of wrongdoing. Belief that your actions ultimately see the greater