Brought into our system, explicitly by this Maga Movement is of course not accepting the. So trumps first impeachment was about trying to cheat, what he ultimately failed to do. Beat Joe Biden Fair and square. He was abusing, according to all the evidence we heard, he was abusing his power as a commander in chief, and his power in foreign policy, to try to cheat, because he was worried he would lose to joe biden. He had reason to worry that he would lose in a free and Fair Election he did and it predates the primary. Hes so freaked out by biden that well out of the primary is trying to take him out. Thats reasonable one. We know reasonable to was the very Fast Reaction to this horrific instruction which mcconnell in that brief moment, they said this was an insurrection, this was a crime. Mcconnell said the Justice System can hold him into account. And here we are tonight, with a grand jury returning every Request Indictment in georgia, and in a journalistic caution, we dont have the names yet. We will report them when we get them. But the grand jury has returned every Request Indictment in a trump election probe to steal one of the states. He would have to steal more than one to even get close. But to steal it, thats what struck me rachel about, you covered so many things but at the end, yes, in a democracy, winning is how you take control of the government. But in an unhealthy democracy, in which we clearly have been tested in, its not enough to actually, when you need a Justice System to enforce it. And the tail for me was always that, after i mean, Hillary Clinton did lose the election to donald trump. And people dont contest that, right . Even if you think that maybe, you know, donald trump got some illegal help from russia, whatever, like still, everybody recognizes that clinton lost to trump, even when trump won that election, he said the election was stolen correct. And he commissioned to investigate the popular vote. Because it was not a Fair Election, he said in advance it would not be. He said in advance of the 2016 election that he would not commit to accepting the results. When he won, he still did not accept the results. And what does that mean . It doesnt mean hes afraid he cant win. It means he once our government to no longer be decided by elections. He wants our government to be decided by who he says is empower, based on what he believes ought to be the appropriate results, and the only result that matters is the one that he chooses. And the accomplices is what endangered democracy. Mitch mcconnell nearly cried out after losing in 2020. He never comes around. He plans january 6th. Trump won texas by a lot. Texas did not need to pass a voter integrity law, but they did. I mean, the neighbors are the ones who made that so dangerous, not just trump the republican president ial Campaign Strategy no longer includes actually getting the most votes right. You know, whenever i hear Hillary Clinton lost to donald trump, its always worth noting she got 3 million more votes, as this is a country we are 3 million more votes isnt enough. And this is the only country on the planet because the founders had this idea that made a certain sense to them, back when they were 13 states, that you would have electors do this job instead of voters. And there were very few voters anyway. Most people couldnt vote. So they are nothing but an Electoral College strategy, which means they are never going to reach over into that middle of the field appeal that they always try to get to, especially after the nomination, that nixon principle of, you run right to get the nomination, and then you run left into the middle in order to win 51 . Thats over. None of them are even dreaming about winning more votes than joe biden. They have no plan for that. Well, their base was in a frenzy to make it possible to try and attack the center. They know what works. The crowd shows them what works. And the cycle goes on. There is no chance the Republican Party ever being able to track to the reasonable middle i mean, they are happy to live at the far right end of the field. And they keep the crowd there. But to be far right on policy is one thing. You know, that is something, barry goldwater, right . That is something that we have contended with a lot over the last several generations. To the against the idea that voting is what should decide who is in power in america is something that is way more off the rails. And that is really where we are. Although, the history of, you know, people trying to disenfranchise certain votes in this country extends back yes, but that is to win the majority of the votes that remain. If voting should not decide who is in power, then we are no longer a country who we thought we are that is what the Trump Movement is about. And that is even the republicans that weve all lauded. Liz cheney had a very Important Role in the January 6th Select Committee Working With Chairman bennie thompson. She hasnt been out there attacking the republican Election Integrity laws. There are 48 states that have passed Voter Suppression laws based on the lie that she held up there and used as a cudgel against trump and her own party for many months, very effectively. But she hasnt extended that to the Voter Suppression laws that have passed in 48 states. Right now, it is just after ten pm on the east coast. And all eyes remain on Fulton County, georgia. Any minute now we could see the actual indictments that we know have been handed up tonight by a grand jury in the election interference investigation there into donald trump and his allies. We know that Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney fani willis asked the grand jury to vote on ten indictments. We know the grand jury approved all ten of those indictments. We have no idea whats in those ten indictments. We do not know who was indicted, how many people were indicted, on what charges, or how many counts . About one hour ago, we saw those ten indictments delivered to the presiding judge, the Fulton County judge robert mcburney. For what its worth, he is a republican appointee to the bench in georgia, appointed in 2012 by republican governor david diehl. Judge mcburney appeared at his desk to scan through the indictments and then sign off on them. We also that live on camera because this is a state court and you can have a camera there. The documents were than hand it from the judge back to the Fulton CountyClerks Office. And we hear from the Clerks Office that they are now processing those indictments. Thats important because thats the process that needs to happen tonight before those indictments are released to us and therefore to you. We are told that the processing could take anywhere from 1 to 3 hours, but it was about an hour ago that the Clerks Office got those documents. Once the indictments are processed, we expect that we, and all of, will be able to see them. We also expect District Attorney fani willis to hold a Press Conference at some point after that, whether that will be tonight as this evening turns into this late evening, or whether that will be tomorrow, we dont know. But you will learn as soon as we know. Joining us now is former fbi General Counsel and lead prosecutor under robert mueller, andrew weissmann. Andrew, what have you seen tonight that we might not have noticed yet . Well, i hate to complicate things. But it also could be the case that although there were ten indictments, which we have seen pretty clear from the cover page we saw. I am not sure it is necessarily the case that all ten are related to the trump investigation. So, again, im not saying that i know one more the other, but it is just worth mating noting that could be the case. And of course, as weve been talking about that, just because its ten indictments, or even if its one Trump Indictment does not mean that its one defendant. You could have many defendants in a case, obviously we have seen three. In florida. And one in d. C. But there could be many here as the Circuit Court indicated. But i do want to make a point, to pick up on something that nicole said about sort of the fact that this is sort of trumps worst nightmare, not just because he is facing criminal charges, which for any of us would be a nafta, it is that this is a place where the courts have really held up so far. You know, one of the things that trump could take away from something he did wrong was actually going to court to try and challenge the election because some of the best evidence in the January 6th Case would be that he lost over and over and over again. And all the court said no. And so, here, he now has four, you know, it seems like at least for criminal cases. And his strategy is to never have a sort of trial where the public gets to see the evidence, where there is a place where facts and law matter. And he is avoiding, essentially, this sort of faulty made him go into court because he operates in this world of all spin, all what i tell you is the truth. And this is a place where so far the jury system and the judges have, you know, by and large, acquitted themselves very well. But its one of the last bulwarks that we are seeing in place against, sort of the movement that trump is spearheading. Andrew, as people who work in this business, we are all very much in favor to there being cameras and reporters as much Public Access to a public proceedings. Ari was axing eloquent early on about whats great to be able to have a camera there, and watch the judge working, and process those indictments. As somebody who has been a prosecutor, a very experienced prosecutor in the federal system where there arent cameras, what should we know about both the upsides and also the downsides of having televised proceedings, how that might change or affect the way that the proceedings happen, or whether it introduces any new risks for the country . There is no question its not an unmitigated plus. Nothing is a black and white. When you are concerned about witnesses, and god knows there is enormous reason here to be concerned about witnesses. We hear the former president day in and day out attacking them. And it only takes one rogue person, actor, and unfortunately we have seen that happen. And so, that is the real downside. Now, of course, that could happen without them being televised. It could happen with just that being released. But to aris point, there are obviously huge benefits if you need to sort of try and figure out how to heal this country. If you think about what the January 6th Committee did, that is something that a public trial can accomplish in a way that just reading something i mean, to me, i think of this as the Mueller Report diversity January 6th Committee. People taking their information in different ways. I am an old, nor the guy. I can read the 400 pages. But thats not how everybody takes in their evidence. But, again, i guess they want to complicate something which although it is true that georgia has this history where it would not be unusual to have a public trial, one of the things that we are surely going to see if donald trump is indicted in georgia is that he is going to seek to remove the case to federal court. He tried to do that in manhattan. That failed. The federal judge there said no. It would be a very similar legal argument. But the facts are different. So, one of the things that could happen is if the case is removed to federal court, you will have the same prosecutors. They will go with the case. The procedure that the federal Court Follows will now be the close courtroom. So that is we we really cant bank on the facts that we know that the georgia case will be heard publicly, because that would be a real knock down drag out fight over the venue because it will change, not just the cameras in the courtroom, it will change the judge on the case, it can change the jury pool, it can have a white effect on a lot of procedural issues in the case. Andrew, one of the other complications of televising is the issue of sequestering. It joey may very well be sequestered, in these cases, or in all these cases, and televising increases the likelihood that they would bump into coverage of the trial. Bum into coverag e of the trial on television when they are back at their hotel rooms. The other bit that interests me more, which strikes me as a more challenging complication in many ways is the sequestering of witnesses which is very common in trials, and its something that jack smith, for example might want. He might want to sequester all witnesses were no witness can be in the courtroom listening to the previous testimony of other witnesses. Televising seriously, it seems to be a complicated possibility, on the effect anyway of Sequestering Witnesses, including in this georgia case. Well, i think thats true. Again, that goes into a balancing. And if you think that our democracy right now is at such a crossroads, the pluses of having a public trial do outweigh, i think, those issues. I do think for jurors, its gonna be, whether its televised or not, it is going to be extremely important that the judge has firm control over the jury and how, what kind of evidence they seek from that side of the courtroom. I think the issue of Sequestering Witnesses is one where that particular role always seemed a little bit odd to me because when the rule was basically dont be in the courtroom. There was no rule that you could be told what happened in the courtroom, when you could not read what happened in the courtroom. And obviously when you do that and you are a witness, you could be crossexamined on it. Just say we are exposed to what happened. It might be a particular issue. The remedy is you could be crossexamined on what you saw and what you heard and what whether it affected you. I would put that in the balance that would be a lesser issue. I still think, and this doesnt take legal expertise, i just think the idea of having a public forum for all of this, when you have so many people with so much distrust of the information they are getting, and the validity of it, being able to see it and here at the same way, i think, the January 6th Committee was a sea change for so many people, frankly people on the left and the right, as to how they were thinking about what happened on january 6th and what kind of accountability was needed. I think theres a hope that thats what these trials could bring. Andrew weissmann, thank you. Dont go anyway. You know youre not allowed. Im just gonna voice it here for the record. Joining us now from outside the Fulton County courthouse in atlanta is nbcs blayne alexander. Blayne, i obviously, we are awaiting the public release of these indictments. Youve been following this case since the investigation began. Whats your perception of the latest right now, your immediate expectations for this evening . Rachel, i most struck by the fact that this timeline was sped up. There were two witnesses that we know of that were set to testify tomorrow. So the fact that they were called seemingly in the middle of the day out of the blue, to say, hey, we know that we told you come on tuesday, come here right now and testify. It is striking to me. And it tells me that the d. A. , for whatever reason, wanted to get all this done in a single day. You know, the guidance that we have received all along, and what we thought, when you talk about a case that has an investigation thats been going for more than two years, is that it would take multiple days, at least two days, to present this sort of case before a grand jury. And thats apparently what was initially planned. So this time to get it all done in one day is certainly an interesting to me. Of course, i want to see what is in those indictments. You know, we dont know what that looks like. We just know when the grand jury return. But we dont know if its one long indictment, multiple indictments, as it pertains to the case against trump and his allies. We just dont know exactly what that looks like. I do think it is interesting that, you know, you heard from george chidi, he was the journalist who was subpoenaed in all of this. And he said that he never actually had to go in there and testify. So that certainly signals that the d. A. , her team, essentially thought that they had all they needed in order to go ahead and put it to a vote and get a true dilemma charge, rachel. And in terms of how this evening is likely to go obviously, blayne, it is the Clerks Office that has these indictments. And we expect that one that is from whence we receive the. That is when the office we release this indictment to the public. Weve also been told to expect that fani willis will make remarks, that you will stick to the press and therefore the public, about these indictments do we expect for sure that that would be this evening, even if its quite late when the Courts Office finished processing these documents . Office f inished processing these document i think thatse possible, rachel. Im watching two places to find out whats when is the Courts Office, but number two, any sort of release from the d. A. s office. Even if they put out some sort of Press Release or some sort of notice, those two place