Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240704 : vimarsana.com

MSNBCW The July 4, 2024

This is a moment in American History, the president of the United States is effectively being called in official court, as the head of a criminal enterprise. Theres been a lot of speculation about white house Chief Of Staff mark meadows who had not been previously indicted. And there was a lot of drama about his testimony, the various investigatory bodies and grand juries. And i think a lot of people thought that mark meadows is getting charged, that he is cooperating, its the president. Mark meadows is charged here as a number of Trump Lawyers. We saw Trump Lawyers named, or not named, but indicated as Unindicted Coconspirators in the federal indictment, the most recent federal indictment about trying to overturn the election results. Questions as to them not being charged but named as coconspirators. Here, they are charged. Giuliani, charged. Eastman, charged. Shes parole, shards. Clark, charged. , charged Sydney Powell, charge. Andrew weizmann has some interesting things to say. Can you bring him in . We cannot bring you in now. If he burris, i will h i had a direct sideline to the birth. As we are looking at this the other names that we are looking at here a lot of the names here thank you this is it. A lot of the names that may not be familiar at the National Level are Georgia State officials former georgia officials, and some Trump Campaign officials who are lower profile individuals. One name sticks out to me because that of course this woman i was describing moments ago, who somehow persuaded ruby freeman to meet with her at a Police Station in georgia, where she pressured ruby freeman that you must confess to voter fraud, trying to talk her into it, as if she was a friend when she clearly was not. We dont have the indictment. It is a 41 count indictment. There are 19 defendants listed. Former President Donald Trump is one of them. The first charge listed, count one on this 41 count indictment is the violation of the georgia rico act, racketeer influenced and corrupt organizations, which is a resident think, and also a specific think with a minimum five year prison term associated with it. It looks like the defendants charged under the rico act this specifically, or all of them, all 19 of them charged as being part of that Criminal Organization. As we await comments from Fulton County District Attorney fani willis, let us go to our nearly burst friend, andrew weissmann. And, do i think we can go to you now to get your first reaction on this indictment. Well, it does look like what we have is one indictment, not nine others to count. Although we dont know for sure. But it looks like this one huge indictment. But i think the main thing, if you are donald trump and his legal team right now, you have a cooperation problem. And this really goes to a point, rachel, you were making, which is theres so many people now who are charged, who cannot be federally pardoned. They are facing state charges. There is no ability to federally pardon them. Its going to be so necessary for donald trump to throw sand in the gears here, whether it is trying to remove fani willis, whether its trying to remove the case to Federal Court, whether it is claiming president ial immunity. The reason, i think, is gonna have to do that, even as it comes in the risk of Firing Jim Comey again, because hes trying to fire fani willis, is he needs to keep these people in line, because they are facing criminal charges that they cannot be pardoned for, even if he wins the presidency. And there is a slew of people, and these are so many of the names that we understood were Unindicted Coconspirators in the federal case that are now facing state charges. So this is a really Good Development if you are fani willis. But also if you are jackson, because this puts so much pressure on those people to make a deal with the government. So, that, to me, is the real sort of shot across the bow here not just because you have this, these really serious charges against donald trump, but you have so many levers to pull if you are at the state and federal level with respect to all these other people. And, andrew, we knew from open source reporting about how these investigations have gone forward, the kinds of witnesses they had called, the kinds of subpoenas they had issued, that jack smith and fani willis were covering some of the same ground, that there was a long detailed section in the federal indictment from Special Counsel jack smith that covered trumps alleged actions in georgia, as youve been pointing out, there was that list of Unindicted Coconspirators, which pointed some of the names we are now seeing in this georgia and augment, Trump Lawyers, who allegedly participated with him in those efforts. We have also had fani willis say explicitly that she did not coordinate anything with jack smiths office, that she and the Special Counsel at the federal level have not been talking to each other, either in terms of the investigation or in terms of coordinating actions, in bringing public facing actions like these, filing this indictment. Does that still seem both appropriate to you and will that now get complicated by the kind of crossover that you are describing, in which some of these lawyers charged at the state level may now want to cooperate with prosecutors . So to the extent that the charges are against people like Rudy Giuliani who is alleged to be an Unindicted Coconspirator, no. You may face federal charges and state court charges, but they seemed in line, theres just more pressure. Where we see there may be a real conflict is mark meadows. If mark meadows is cooperating at the federal level, well, he was just charged at the state level, or if he was given immunity at the federal level to give information. But he didnt admit to what he is, he has now been charged with at the state level. That is going to be some tension to bring these federal and state charges. Theres also the possibility that he didnt fully come clean to the federal investigators. And this will be some, a useful wake up call, as you might say, to him and his lawyer as to needing to face the music. And, rachel, three facts we have gleaned, rachel number one, weve heard a lot of Unindicted Coconspirators in the jack smith case. This has a bunch of people charged. We read that. The office has also listed Unindicted Coconspirators. Under Georgia State law, they are often referred to as individual with a number, or Unindicted Coconspirator, common, and then it will say that persons identity is known to The Grand Jury. So to build on what andrew was saying, its a very interesting process. Its interesting to learn about the people who cooperated, at least under duress, legal applications, testify to The Grand Jury. Second fact which is gleaned, there is multiple acts relating to the Rico Conspiracy that relate to access a voting data. We will discuss this tonight. Nicole was discussing it. Very striking, that gets beyond lying to investigators. Im reading here it says that an Unindicted Coconspirator, quote, unlawfully access that copied from Dominion Voting Systems Equipment in the Coffee County board of elections registrations office. It goes on to name others who did that, and it names and attorney associated with Sydney Powell. It says that happened in georgia, and it also makes reference to trying to get that on lawfully from the state of michigan. So that is interesting. And the third point i wanted to say, we talked about the intersection of this in other cases, obviously, she said shed moved independently. I see that this d. A. Takes a broad view of her ability to prosecute acts of conspiracy that like to other even sovereign investigations. We have seen here in this new unsealed indictment accusing Sydney Powell, trump lawyer, of lying to the january 6th Committee Congressional investigation. And that is an act, also cited here as an act to further the conspiracy. Its very broad. Also to your point im sorry. Lets let chris hayes jump in. Chris i want to ask the simplest dumbest question. Just to go back to andrew weissmann. What is so strange about this document, in comparison to the other indictments we have seen, because it is a racketeering indictment. That first page, i dont know if we can show it up, it is the State Of Georgia Versus and then it is, you know, the list of the 18 people. This is all in one indictment. Like, all of these accounts, all of these people are one single racketeering indictment, right . I just wanted to make sure that i understood that. We still dont know if the other nine people have anything to do with this, or what could be outstanding. But we think this is the comprehensive universe of the charges. And there are all bound together as a collective enterprise as under georgia racketeering law. It is certainly that this is one huge mega conspiracy under, lets say rico. It is really not clear that the other nine or anything related to donald trump, as rachel was saying, this could be just fraud cases, or other cases that The Grand Jury could here day in, day out. Let me just hear from the introduction to the indictment. Again, there is 19 defendants here, 41 Felony Counts listed. All of the defendants, including former President Donald Trump are charged undercount one, which is a violation of georges rico act, racketeering and corrupt organizations act. The introduction to the indictment says defendant Donald John Trump lost the United States president ial election held on november 3rd, 2020. One of the states he lost was georgia. Trump and the other defendants charged in this indictment refused to accept that trump lost. And they knowingly and willfully joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of trump. That conspiracy contained a common plan and purpose to commit to or more acts of Racketeering Activity in Fulton County, georgia. Elsewhere in the state of georgia and in other states. And then it describes the enterprise as follows. At all times, relevant to this count of the indictment, the defendants, not named defendants, unlawfully conspired in an effort to conduct and participate in a criminal enterprise in Fulton County, georgia, and elsewhere. Defendants Donald John Trump, rudolph giuliani, and then the big long list, Unindicted Coconspirators, individual one until individual 30, and others known or unknown to The Grand Jury, constituted a Criminal Organization whose members and associates engaged in criminal activities, including but not limited to, false statements in writings, Person Eating A public officer, forgery, filing documents, influencing witnesses, computer theft, computer trespass, computer invasion of privacy, Conspiracy To Defraud the state, acts involving threat and perjury. The Criminal Organization constituted an enterprise that is defined defined in George Acosta group of individuals that is associated associates of the enterprise had connections with one another and with a criminal enterprise. And the enterprise constituted an ongoing organization whose members, associates, functioned as a continuing for the common objectives of the enterprise. The enterprise operated in Fulton County, georgia, elsewhere in georgia, and in other states, including but not limited to, arizona, michigan, nevada, new mexico, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and the district of columbia. If you are following along at home, yes, thats the list with all of the Fake Electors. The enterprise operated for a period of time, insufficient permanent members and associates to pursue its perspectives. Can i follow on that, rachel . I made a note to the similar scheme. And on page 21, if you are following along, to 23, there was a detail of all the efforts that trump and meadows made in other states with Fake Electors, pennsylvania, arizona, michigan. And at the end of each one of these descriptions of the ways in which trump and his team tried to tamper with what was happening in those states, the indictment says this meeting was an overt act to further the conspiracy. I think we still have you, andrew weissmann. The idea that they are citing the actions of trump and giuliani and meadows, as well as jenna ellis, in states that are not giorgio, as acts in further instance of the conspiracy. What do you make of that, in terms of casting, as ari pointed out, just in terms of election interference, and drawing it all back to the conspiracy in georgia. You know, fani willis about a week ago said, you know, she likes the rico statute because it allows you to put before the jurors a whole story. I had the same reaction when i was a Prosecutor Doing organized crime cases, that it allows you to tell the whole story. And here, i picked up the exact same stuff because i was immediately looking for mark meadows. And he is throughout this. You know, theres a separate account at 28, which is the Brad Raffensperger call, where it is donald trump and mark meadows. But mark meadows has numerous acts in furtherance of that larger Rico Conspiracy. And she had told us that she was going to be interested in whats happening across the country. And it makes sense. If you are a georgia juror, youre gonna be thinking, why did it just happened here . Doesnt make any sense. Why would you just do that here . So she wanted to tell the whole story. As she said, she thinks jurors have common sense. They want to hear it. And thats what she did. N se and then, the design of e Criminal Conspiracy, it helps what they are trying to do in georgia, if they can first do it in arizona. If they can do it in other states, and there are several other states mentioned here. I was wondering the same thing, alex, as soon as i thought. Its its in many different sections of the indictment there talking about things that these people are doing in relation to nevada, for example, pennsylvania. But if they had succeeded in any of those things they were trying to do in the other states, that would help them succeed in the conspiracy that they were running Full Throttle in georgia, which is described in of course the most detail here. There is the final charge in the indictment, which is a Perjury Charge. And it is the only one, as far as i can tell, this Perjury Charge against Robert David Chilly in testimony to the Fulton County Special Purpose grand jury. And he is charged with lying in effect about the Fake Electors scheme that he was apparently involved in, according to this indictment. Thats the only perjury indictment, Forgery Charge that seems to be coming out of the original grand jury in this case, the Fulton County Special Purpose grand jury. And also just to note, all of the charges against donald trump, every one of them, mirror precisely that document that came out earlier in the day today. And in the exact order, and in the exact title, that document that became public and then disappeared. One of the things that is not detailed in here, that we havent heard much about in the other probes into this period of time in this state is the unlawful breach of Election Equipment in georgia, and then interestingly, it says and elsewhere. Indictment says this on page 80, members of the enterprise, including several of the defendants, corruptly conspired in Fulton County, georgia and elsewhere, to unlawfully access Voting Equipment and voter data. In georgia, members of the enterprise stole data, including ballot images, Voting Equipment software, personal voter information. The stolen data was then d

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