We today uphold our solemn responsibility to ensure that everyone stands equal before the law. We have one set of laws in this country, and they apply to everyone their evidence can be tested in court and judged by a jury of citizen sdpgs we look at the fact, we look at the law and we bring charges. For the fourth time in as many months donald trump, the former president of the United States, is facing a criminal indictment. Good morning and welcome to morning joe. It is tuesday, august 15th. Lets dive right into the latest indictment for the former president. The charges are from Fulton County, georgia, where trump and 18 others were named in a sweeping 41count indictment targeting alleged attempts to overturn the states 2020 Election Results, Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney fani willis announced the charges just before midnight. The states role in this process is essential to the functioning of our democracy. Georgia like every state has laws that allow those who believe that results of an election are wrong, whether because of intentional wrongdoing or unintentional error to challenge those results in our state courts. The indictment alleges that rather than abide by georgias Legal Process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a Criminal Racketeering Enterprise to overturn georgias president ial election result. The indictment charged under georgias antiracketeering law accuses the former president and his allies of running a Criminal Organization, that Quote Knowingly and willfully joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of trump. District attorney willis said she would give all defendants until august 25th to turn themselves in and would push to go to trial within six months. The indictment charges trump with 13 Felony Counts and they are violation of the Georgia Racketeer Influenced And Corrupt Organizations Act or rico, three counts of solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer, two counts of conspiracy to commit false statements and writings, two counts of conspiracy to commit forgery in the first degree, two counts of false statements and writings, conspiracy to commit impersonating a public officer, conspiracy to commit filing false documents and filing false documents. Many of trumps allies were also charged with various crimes including trumps former personal attorneys Rudy Giuliani and john eastman, former Chief Of Staff mark meadows, former Justice Department official jeffrey clark, kenneth creaseboro, former members of trumps 2020 legal team, jenna ellis, giuliani, eastman, clark and powell are also allegedly coconspirators listed in special counsel jack smiths indictment of trump in the 2020 election case in d. C. Joining the conversation we have u. S. Special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay, the host of way too early, Jonathan Lemire, Eugene Robinson, former u. S. Attorney and senior fbi official Chuck Rosenberg, former u. S. Attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance and political reporter for the Atlanta Journalconstitution greg bluestein. Joe, this happened overnight. The indictment is almost 100 pages long, and some republicans were quick to jump in front of cameras and make ridiculous parallels to this. Well, its because theyre still playing the game of politics, and they somehow missed the memo months ago that this has turned from a political father said, a political charade into a deadly serious legal issue. Regardless of where the indictments are, so they can lie all they want, they can try to puff up smoke, they can talk about hunter biden as weve said before. Hunter biden will be judged. Hell be judged in a court of law, and hell be judged by a jury and however that jury rules will be how things are determined. So ted cruz and the rest of them can huff and puff and try to blow the house down but doesnt change a damp in thing about Donald Trumps future. It rests whether hes in jail for the rest of his life or a free man, it doesnt rest on truth social. It rests in a jury box. And thats going to be in four different jury boxes now. Joyce vance, your takeaway from what you saw in Georgia Last Night . Well, joe, its a broad and a sweeping indictment as weve all been discussing, something that im intrigued by is the appearance at least 89 times in the indictment of the phrase unindicted coconspirator, and prosecutors like chuck and me, when you see that in an indictment, you begin to wonder if theres cooperation going on because that suggests that the grand jury at least knows about these folks, may have heard from them and they appear in key junctures. Theres a mention of an unindicted coconspirator on january 6th and january 7 as Sidney Powell and illegally accesses Voting Machines in that friendly county that is republican controlled. Theres mention of unindicted coconspirators in white house meetings in late december when obstruction of the electoral count is discussed and its been difficult for prosecutors who have investigated trump to get Insider Cooperation in the past. Both in cases like this one that are related to the election and in cases related to his other dealings, he maintains fierce loyalty in those around him. If that bubble has burst and there are unindicted coconspirators who are cooperating willis may flip some of these folks indicted alongside trump and be able to present a firsthand very detailed picture of this conduct to the jury that ultimately hears the case against donald trump. Chuck rosenberg, im curious, the defendants have ten days to, quote, turn themselves in. What might be different in georgia in terms of process . What will you be looking for there and overall, what stands out to you in this nearly 100page indictment . First, i agree with joyce, which is always a safe position, broad and sweeping indictment and the number of unindicted coconspirators, mika, as joyce referred to is telling. The other thing thats really interesting to me is that the feds took a very different approach to their Election Interference Case. Mr. Trump was the lone defendant in the federal case in d. C. With six unindicted coconspirators. Here he is 1 of 19 codefendants with 30 unindicted coconspirators. I dont mean to suggest one is wrong or one is right. They both may succeed. I suspect they will. A point joe made which i think is really important lots of people will say lots of things and folks like senator cruz, i dont mean to pick on him but he sort of volunteered. What they say has no meaning. There will be four trials unless he pleads guilty and that means there will be 48 people, four sets of juries, 12 people on each jury who will determine whether or not these charges are valid. Thats it. Its not going to be me. Its not going to be senator cruz. Its not going to be anyone else. We wont qualify for any of these juries, 48 people in four jurisdictions will decide. Prosecutors dont put words in an indictment unless they can prove it. So assuming they can prove it, mr. Trump is in a lot of trouble, so are a whole bunch of other people too. Thats one of the striking things about this newest indictment, the breadth and as joyce said, the sweeping nature and the number of those charged is fascinating and complicates the case but gives us rich details, something to follow in the months and perhaps years to come. Donald trump is largely running for president to stay out of jail. The bank shot, if he were to win, the three federal cases, the federal cases against him he can make go away and tell the Attorney General to stand down. He could even try if convicted already to selfpardon. Well see if that holes up in courts but thats the theory, that this, this is a state case. He cant do that. He cant selfpardon. He cant make it go away. Thats why those in trump world that ive been talking to for months know this case poses a particular danger, that the big lie, joe, could come and get donald trump here in a way that it maybe cant somewhere else. We cant emphasize this enough, the indictment paints trump as the leader of a vast, quote, Criminal Organization, which knowingly and willfully joined a consracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of trump, one of the members of the conspiracy a man once known as americas mayor, Rudy Giuliani, now part of this plot, a Criminal Organization for a man would once was president and wants to be again. Well, and from what ive been told and Just A Little Bit of reading and im sure others have seen this, but what causes even greater concern is he cant just talk to the governor. His supporters cant pressure the governor of georgia to pardon him, because georgias one of only two states where the governor does not have the power to pardon. That power comes from a parole and clemency board, Georgia State board of pardons and parole. So his situation even more complicated in the state of georgia if a jury of his peers find him guilty, then its not going to be as simple as just putting pressure on Governor Kemp politically or having kemps constituents do that because its one of two states where a governor does not have the ability to Pardon Somebody whos been prosecuted. Yeah, only ramps up the legal peril he faces and, greg, youre obviously the expert here on georgia politics. Talk to us about this racketeering charge, the rico charge which seems so powerful and potent here and for donald trump perilous for all the reasons we just outlined, theres no easy way out for him this time around. Yeah, thats what strikes me. This is not just a handful of indictments. These are indictments that allege a Criminal Enterprise involving 19 codefendants, 41 charges, 30 unindicted coconspirators, dozens of separate acts they it ranks from the highprofile cases weve talked about for years including the infamous phone call from donald trump to the Secretary Of StateBrad Raffensperger and includes lesser known issues, the folks who were accused of illegally breaching Elections Equipment down in Coffee County and the people charged with intimidating ruby freeman, an election staffer. Some of the names of the suspects of the indicteds defendants weve been talking about were months, years now Rudy Giuliani, john eastman, mark meadows, donald trump, of course, but some of them are relatively new to the stage and thats whats so fascinating about this case. So false statements and solicitation of high ranking officials, state officials, they talk about georgia, the Secretary Of State, the Speaker Of The House. Pushing them to violate their Oaths Of The Georgia Constitution and the United States constitution by unlawfully changing the outcome of the november 3rd, 2020 president ial election. Heres that phone call that everyone has heard a number of times. Today it takes very significant meaning. Take a listen. I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, i need 11,000 votes. Give me a break. So, look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. Theres nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that youve recalculated. Jonathan lemire mentioned the harassment and intimidation that took place, thats on page 17. Also creation and distribution of false Electoral College documents, the false documents were intended to disrupt and delay the joint session of congress on january 6th, 2021 in order to unlawfully change the outcome of the president ial election in favor of donald trump, similar schemes were executed by members of the enterprise in arizona, michigan, nevada, new mexico, pennsylvania and wisconsin. Gene robinson, sweeping to say the least. Absolutely sweeping and, you know, that phone call we just played with Brad Raffensperger, weve all heard it a million times, it features in the indictment that special counsel jack smith brought, but i think it is absolutely wrong to say that fani willis, the Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney is replowing ground that jack smith has already plowed. In fact, this goes much deeper, and its so much more granular and it details the alleged actions not only of donald trump but all those coconspirators, and in just again granular detail talks about, for example, the interference with ballots and Voting Machines in Coffee County, the intimidation of ruby freeman and shaye moss, the attempt to ruin their lives basically and it holds accountable not just donald trump but the others who helped in what fani willis has alleged was a corrupt enterprise of racketeering to steal the election and to deny millions of georgians their vote. I think there is great worth in this indictment just for the detail it puts out there and perhaps we dont need a similar indictment in every single state where he did this, but im awfully glad we have it in this one because we see exactly how this im just going to call it this evil scheme worked. Yeah. Well, you know, its very important what you just said, fani willis did far more than just replow the ground that jack smiths already replowed, another big difference in this, mika, is the fact that Andy Mccarthy in the New York Post yesterday afternoon before the indictments were coming down, he talked about the strengths and weaknesses of each case like a lot of people said the manhattan case seemed to be very weak but then he said then he said the documents case was the strongest case because its just all there black and white, yeah. Like Jack Goldsmith also said in last weeks chilling oped in the new york times, those are actions donald trump committed after he was president of the United States, and theyve got him dead to right there. He had no right to steal the documents. He stole the documents. Theyve got the testimony. So, thats the tightest case, and then it was very interesting when talking about The Georgia Case, he said fani willis actually has some advantages over jack smith because jack smith, hes got trumps abhorrent conduct but he doesnt have statutes that fit quite as tightly. In georgia, fani willis charged the former president under statutes specifically drafted for this sort of activity, so far from sort of going over again what jack smith did nationally, she actually has more relevant statutes to the improper, possibly illegal conduct of donald trump, because of those georgia statutes, and, therefore, thats why Andy Mccarthy, a very conservative journalist said other than the docs case, The Georgia Case is the strongest because its on a state level for a state who actually anticipated in the future behavior like this and they have specific penalties for that behavior. A lot of people were asking why is this taking so long . I mean, whats going on in georgia. When you look at this and read this, what shes describing is a Criminal Enterprise, she calls it the enterprise and were talking about and ill continue page 18 solicitation of high ranking United States department of justice officials, solicitation of the Vice President of the United States, and unlawful breach of Election Equipment in georgia and elsewhere and it goes on to describe the coverup and to katty kay, jonathans point, this is georgia, he cant run, he cant hide, he cant pardon himself and he cannot avoid going to jail if convicted of these charges. Yeah, which is why The Georgia Case has been the one that always worried people in trump world that ive been in contact with over the last 24 hours. Even if you wong the election potentially, he would still have this hanging over him, you know, the sequencing of all of this and would love to get joyce to weigh in will be fascinating. Does the january 6th case go first, the federal case . Its simpler, one defendant. If that then were to push The Georgia Case to when, to after the campaign has all been concluded and election day and then if trump were to win in 2024, then what happens to The Georgia Case . Does it wait until after the presidency or would fani willis be able to bring The Georgia Case to trial while he was president and if he were convicted then what happens because he cant pardon himself . There are still a lot of questions we still have around the sequencing of this so i dont know. Maybe joyce could weigh in on that because