And it might eventually and in a jail. In Fulton County the Sheriffs Office announced today the donald trump and all his 18 accused coconspirators will first be booked at the Rice Street Jail in Fulton County. A sheriff from Fulton County has said that dom trump will be fingerprinted and that he will be photographed and end up with a mugshot when he is booked at the Rice Street Jail. The sheriff noted that the deal was open 24 7 and all of the people indicted in what the indictment called Donald TrumpsCriminal Enterprise Are welcome to show up to their bookings at anytime. No appointment necessary. To varying degrees, donald trump has been given special treatment in each one of his previous arrests and arraignments. So far there has been no suggestion from the Fulton County sheriff, fani willis, that donald trump will receive special treatment this time in the booking and arraignment procedure. This is the one. This is the case that tells a story more clearly than any other Criminal Case against donald trump. The story of exactly who Donald Trumps and was when he was, according to this indictment, committing crimes in the oval office. This is the one that historians will use to tell the story of Donald Trumps conspiracy to overturn the 2020 president ial election. This is the one its screenwriters and perhaps playwrights will use to tell that story. If you read only one indictment of donald trump, it really should be this indictments. It tells a story the way well written history book would tell story, in clear, simple, chronological order, we getting with Donald Trumps lying speech at two a. M. On Election Night, quote, falsely declaring victory in the 2020 president ial election. Those of us watching that speech that time knew that donald trump was lying. Neither candidate could honestly claim to have won the president ial election on Election Night, given the number of still uncounted votes in the key states. When we watch that speech, it appeared to be one wrong trumps standard issue lies, which are perfectly legal. But in this indictment, on page 20, we discover that a week before election i Donald John Trump discussed a draft speech with Unindicted Coconspirator individual wine that falsely declared victory and falsely claimed voter fraud. The speech was an overt act in furtherance of a conspiracy. That speech at two a. M. Was, according disenchantment, the public launching of Donald TrumpsCriminal Enterprise. The second action in the furtherance of a conspiracy involved Rudolph Giuliani and Unindicted Coconspirator individual 2, the third action involved Unindicted Coconspirator individual 3, the fourth action involved Unindicted Coconspirator individual 4. There are a total of 30 Unindicted Coconspirators, some of whom were in the oval office with donald trump. That means of the Grande Prairie has evidence from Bernard Iron Coconspirators who are cooperating with this prosecution of Donald TrumpsCriminal Enterprise. Many of the fickle actors in georgia are Unindicted Coconspirators who were cooperating with prosecutors, and the rest of the Unindicted Coconspirators are being indicted for forgery in the first degree, conspiracy to commit conspiracy in the first degree, and more. What mike pence called a gaggle of Crack Pot Lawyers have all been indicted in this case. Lock giuliani, john eastman, kenneth chesebro, jeffrey clark, jenna ellis, they are each facing multiple charges in the furtherance of the conspiracy. The conspiracy called Donald TrumpsCriminal Enterprise. Rudolph giuliani is 79 years old. He is contemplating the possibility, tonight, of spending the final years of his life in prison in georgia, outside of the reach of a president ial pardon from the next republican president in United States. I first guest tonight, harry litman, and his legal column in the Los Angeles Times calls this indictment the most farreaching unpretentious response to trumps assault on democracy. Special Prosecutor Jack Smith is indicted on trump individually for much of the same conduct, described in the george indictment, as a Criminal Enterprise. Donald trumps last white house Chief Of Staff, mark meadows, does not appear in jack smith indictment. Mark meadows is the fourth listed defendant and the george indictment. Mark meadows is the first defended in the case to legally respond to the indictment by today Filing A Request in Federal Court to move the georgia case out of the Fulton County courthouse to the jurisdiction of a federal judge. The federal judge who will consider that request is steve see jones, appointed to the Federal Court by president obama. A georgia judge, who was randomly assign the case in Fulton County, is the newest judge in Fulton County, judge scott mcafee, appointed by republican Governor Brian Kemp to fill a vacancy and is now running for reelection to that judge ship in 2024 on the same schedule as the president ial election. Judge mcafee is a republican who was a member of the Federalist Society in law school. Judge mcafee surged as a assistant District Attorney under the supervision of fani willis, who was then one of the Senior AssistantDistrict Attorneys in Fulton County. We now have a four way race to a trial date in the for criminal prosecutions of donald trump. Managed to journey alvin bragg, the first to indict indict donald trump has it currently scheduled trial date of march 25th. Attorney bragg has said publicly he would not use that date to stand in the way of one of the other prosecutions of donald trump, which he recognized as possibly more urgent cases. Today in florida, don trumps newest codefendant in the espionage an Obstruction Of Justice case was finally arraigned. The two defendants facing criminal charges with donald trump in florida probably believe that there is virtually no chance of them being sentenced to prison even if found guilty in that case, because the judge in the case was appointed by donald trump. And he has in the past issued extraordinarily favorable rulings for don trump. And because there are no mandatory minimum sentences required in that case. It is fully within that federal judges discretion to give no prison time to any of those defendants, even if found guilty. The prospect of prison time is the strongest pressure in convincing coconspirators to cooperate with prosecutors. That pressure is virtually nonexistent, possibly in the florida case but that pressure is much much stronger in the georgia case tonight. With 18 codefendants of donald trump, each wondering how much prison time they could be facing in that case. None of Donald Trumps 18 accused coconspirators in georgia can just sit back and bet on donald trump winning the next president ial election and making that case go away because the president of the United States has absolutely no power to intervene in any way in the Georgia Criminal Prosecution of Donald TrumpsCriminal Enterprise. Leading off our discussion tonight is glenn hes fleming, Andrew Weissmann, former fbi general counsel, a professor in practice it nyu law school, and an msnbc legal and analyst, also harry lippman, former u. S. Attorney and former Deputy Assistant general, Senior Legal Affairs general for the Los Angeles Times. And gwen, let me begin with you on a point that we were working on last night and that is the question of mandatory minimums. In the georgia law, the rico law, there appears to be a mandatory minimum sentence of five years but there are indications that there is still discretion left to the judge to not necessarily impose prison time and that could be done through probation. What is the real mandatory minimum . Let me put it this way, is there a mandatory minimum of confinement of some kind in the georgia law that applies in this case . Last night you heard d. A. Willis say yes. Theyre wise. And the way i read that statement is, as a prosecutor, and again, this is very early in the stages. All defendants are it is until proven guilty. But if we get to the conviction of any one of the 19 for a rico charge my sense is that the dea herself will seek the mandatory minimum of five years in jail, not on probation. Now the way the statute is worded, it simply says no less than five and up to 20 years imprisonment. There are other statutes that indicate that can be, that term can be pro baited, and when there is no discretion, when imprisonment is mandatory such as in the georgia gang statute, the statute specifically says that. It will go on to say, and sentence cannot be suspended or pro baited. Because that language is absent from the rico statute i think theres a good argument that the five years could be served on Pro Gay Probation but as a prosecutor would make a recommendation about sending thing after a conviction, i think we saw that at least d. A. Willis believes that this is a time sort of case, time to deal would be appropriate. When, what we know about the judge who might be making this decision at the end of this case . This judge squat mcafee, he is the shockingly young 34yearold judge in this case, the newest judge in that county and he was a former as assistant District Attorney in fani williss office, but do we know much about how he might approach this . I dont know that we know much. He has been on the bench now for about eight months. He did starting january. He is a very lengthy Public Service career, so he has been a prosecutor both at the state and federal level. He has seen how various judges have organized their docket, how they have pushed council on both sides to resolve issues quickly so that you dont end up with bloated dockets or lengthy dockets. But this is one heck of a case to begin your judicial career on, i will admit that. Andrew weissmann, mark meadows is telling Federal Court that everything he did he did in his official capacity as the white house Chief Of Staff, and therefore no state court has jurisdiction over that conduct. What are the prospects of mark meadows pleading in Federal Court on that . I think its important for everyone to realize that what mark meadows did today is likely to be something that maybe all of the 19 defendants are going to win to seek to remove the case to Federal Court. What we saw two day could repeat over and over again. Why is . That because the judge will change the jury poor pool would change, and the trial would not be televised, absent the Chief Justice of United States making an exception and theres no evidence so far to suggest that would happen. The jury pool would be much broader than Fulton County. What would not change is that the District Attorneys office stays with the case and the state law still applies. Its just moving the case to a different venue. Donald trump tradition in a manhattan case, a manhattan Criminal Case, and it was rejected. But here the charge is a very different. It could be outright rejected because because its someone was committing a crime in engaging in a coup, and its not part of your official capacity, for that it is sent back to state court. There is certainly allegations here with respect to mark meadows that say that he did something really on behalf of the campaign. So that is not really part of his chief staff duties. You could end up with a split decision, with certain things stay state and certain things go federal. That could be with respect to each of the defendants who bake this motion. You could have a split decision. Its also a case that could go to a hearing where theres evidence taken, and the statute requires that unless its facially clear that it should be sent back to the state court. So this is going to be a very complicated issue. Theres going to be lots of litigation on it. I would say this is not a frivolous motion. I dont think i would rule in favor of it, but it is one that is going to be quite complicated for the federal judge. Lets just take a look at what the meadows filing says, for example, about one thing that he did. Its worth keeping in mind that in the history of the american presidency no white house Chief Of Staff, or no white house staffer at any level, as ever done what mark Meadows Council describes him doing here. Mr. Meadows went to a site in Fulton County where the Chief Investigator was conducting an audit of the results of the 2020 president ial election because, and only because, he was serving as Chief Of Staff. He wanted to report back to the president on how the audit was proceeding and told him the following day that the georgia officials were conducting their work in an exemplary fashion. Harry litman, thats one version of it. The Indictment Version of it is that he tried to intrude on a process of Vote Counting that does not allow anyone to enter that space and he had to be barred from entering, prevented from entering into the space where the audit was being conducted. The indictment says. And so when you are claiming youre just doing your job is the white house Chief Of Staff, and youre doing something in georgia, state where theyre auditing a vote, no one in the history of president ial staff has ever done, how does that claim standup in Federal Court, that you were just doing your job . Less well ventilated other things that he is going to try to say. It goes to the point of some possibility of possibly dividing the charges against him. But contrast this with trump and claims that have already been rejected, where he has tried to argue the same thing, in effect you can remove, if you are with in, if youre acting under the cover of your office, and judges have said i dont think so. Trying to foment a coup is not part of the office. It is a harder case with meadows. The points you raised, lawrence, seen Beyond The Pale anyway however you strike it, but a lot has to do with how you characterize his conduct and his lawyer terwilliger has adroitly tried to frame this as doing this Chief Of Staffy stuff, conducting calls here. And the circuit here has pretty liberal removal, that is it favors removal. So i agree with andrew, its not a straightforward motion. You could see his prevailing here. One interesting point arrays, you have 30 days to do our all and you would think trump in his Delay Strategy would want to wait until the end, and meadows here jumps begun innocence and speeds up the clock. There are other people as well, but trump, if you were really in control, would have won, and none of this to occur for 29 days and instead we are already off to the races with the meadows motion. A good case. Do each one of these defendants get their own day in Federal Court if they want it, making the claim that their case should be removed to Federal Court . It would only apply to those who were federal officers at the time that these acts happened. And again, lets remember, im a former Chief Of Staff and you have to think about what is the authority of the principle that you are serving. Again, whe