Unfortunately. Listen, lawrence, by monday is free and now apparently my april of the year 2026 is booked. Dont be surprised if it happens before that, alex. Okay, i wont be. Thank you, alex. Have a good show. Thank you. Imagine how terrifying donald trump, how terrified he has to be for him to follow the advice of his lawyers. Thats how terrified Donald Trumps tonight. For the first time. The breaking not surprising news of the night is that donald trump was forced to announce that he will not be having a special press event on monday to, as he put it, refute the 13 criminal charges against him delivered by a Georgia Grand Jury on monday. In a written statement tonight, donald trump said rather than releasing the report on the rigged and stolen georgia 2020 president ial election on monday my lawyers would prefer putting this, i believe, irrefutable and overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud and irregularities informal legal filings as we fight to dismiss this disgraceful indictment, therefore, the News Conference is no longer necessary, exclamation point. That statement is, of course, ally. There is no report. Donald trump has no. Report on trumps lawyers will not be putting irrefutable and overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud and irregularities in formal legal filings. They will not do that. Donald trump is charged in florida with turning lies about Election Fraud there into a criminal enterprise. Donald trumps Criminal Defense Lawyers are not going to mount a defense that says Donald Trumps lies were true. Donald trump has been terrified into silence by Fulton CountyDistrict Attorney fani willis. Another sign of how terrified he is of fani willis. Is what he said about her in that written statement tight. He called her a publicity and cain finance seeking dea. Never mind that no one in Human History has ever sought publicity more hungrily than donald trump, and no one in Human History has more voraciously polled socalled Campaign Contributions that of peoples pockets to finance his campaigns, his lifestyle, and now his criminal defense. But for donald trump to call someone publicity and Campaign Finance seeking as an insult is as mild an insult is donald trump has ever delivered publicly to anyone. This might mean donald trump is more in the control of his lawyers tonight. It might mean donald trump has turned a Corner Rhetorically Affair Criminal Defendant and that he will stop launching vicious, false, racist attacks on fani willis and on a federal judge in washington who is presiding over special prosecutor jack smiths prosecution of donald trump for some of the same conduct alleged mother george indictment. You could see today, when donald trump taped an interview for the Ultra Low Rated fox business channel, that he is, in trumpian terms, a defeated man. When a fawning host, who commands a regular tv audience, about one tenth the size of the audience watching this program right now, brought out Donald Trumps newest indictment in georgia, it was as much of a Softball Incident Item and question could be, and Donald Trumps response was what donald trump would call low energy. I thought we would just see what you had to say about that. Sure. Its a witch hunt. Its a continuation of a witch hunt. They want to silence you. They mean silence. I think they are sick people. I think they are people that have no idea how the world works. Donald trump rambled on. He never mentioned those sixth people again. He never said a negative word, or another negative word, about any of the prosecutors in the for criminal cases against him, or anything about the judges in two of those cases whom he has attacked viciously in the past. He was just a very weary version of his witch hunt bit. Donald trump has not spoken one word of defense in the case that District Attorney willis is now prosecuting. He will not speak one word of defense on monday or possibly any other day. Donald trumps Criminal Defense Lawyers were all far too weak and unprofessional to get him to stop saying poisonous, racist things about fani willis until she indicted him. And now we see fani williss indictment has landed on donald trump more heavily than any other indictment of donald trump. Fani williss indictment is the indictment that made donald trump shot up. And so on monday we will not be hearing Donald Trumps defense to the rico charge he is facing in georgia. We will not hear Donald Trumps defense to his famous phone call on January 2nd Of 2021 to georgia Secretary Of StateBrad Raffensperger. All i want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. That phone call got donald trump indicted for solicitation of violation of oath by a public officer. If it sounded criminal to you the first time you heard donald trump asking for those 11,000 votes, it sounded criminal to District Attorney willis, as well. Now donald trump is indicted for that request that the Secretary Of State violate his oath and committed crime for donald trump. But donald trump is also indicted on another count for that same phone call. That is the crime of making false statements to Government Officials in georgia, which the indictment says was, quote, An Act Of Racketeering Activity. The sentence, this was an act of racketeering it to activity, appears 34 times in the indictment. The indictment lists 13 important lies that donald trump told in that same phone call to Secretary Of State raffensperger in further ands of the conspiracy. On monday we will not hear Donald Trumps defense of any one of those lies. And Donald TrumpsCriminal Defense Lawyers will never be able to defend those 13 lies. Donald trumps Criminal Defense Lawyers will not dare to suggest that any one of these 13 lies is true. Donald trump has been indicted on multiple counts of making false statements to georgia officials. The following 13 lies listed in the indictment amount to only one of those counts of making false statements to Government Officials. Here are those 13 lies. Anywhere from 200 and 50,000 to 300,000 ballots were dropped mysteriously into the roles in the president ial election in georgia. Thousands of people attempted to vote in the president ial election in georgia and were told they could not because a ballot had already been cast in their name. 4502 people voted in the president ial election in georgia who were not on the Voter Registration list. 904 people voted in the president ial election in georgia who were registered at an address that was a post office box, that ruby freeman was a professional vote scammer and known fraudulently awarding false ballots in state farm arena. Close to 5000 dead people voted in the president ial election in georgia. That 100 and 39 of people voted in the president ial election in detroit. That 200,000 more votes were recorded than the number of people who voted in the president ial election in pennsylvania. The thousands of dead people voted in the president ial election in michigan. That ruby freeman stuffed the ballot boxes. That hundreds of thousands of ballots had been dumped into Fulton County and another county adjacent to Fulton County in the president ial election in georgia. That he won the November 3rd 2020 president ial election in georgia by 400,000 votes. The indictment says, this was An Act Of Racketeering Activity and an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. We have much defended news to consider in this hour, including his lawyers asking for a threeyear delay in the washington d. C. Trial objects myths indictment of donald trump for his activities leading up to and on january six, trying to over throw the president ial election, and although dont trumps not offering one word of defense in any of the criminal cases against him now, Rudolph Giuliani is trying to defend himself with pride Public Comments on his radio show in which he repeatedly refers to georgias Secretary Of State, Brad Raffensperger as georgias Attorney General, for whom Rudy Giuliani expresses his unbridled hatred. Here is small sample of Rudy Giulianis defense. Hes taking First Amendment statements and advocacy by lawyers are turning it into a racketeering case. I know rico. Rico is a friend of mine. I come from brooklyn. You know . I come from a place thats realistic. Knows how to ferret outliers. We will hear more of the giuliani defense later in the hour, but we begin our discussion with the consideration of why the Trump Defense in the georgia case has gone completely silent. Leading off our discussion is andrew weissmann, former fbi General Counsel and former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of new york. Hes a professor of Nyu Law School and cohost of the prosecuting donald trump podcast and the msnbc legal analyst. Gwen Keyes Fleming its also with us, a former District Attorney in dekalb county. And former prosecutor in georgia is joining us again tonight. Andrew, lets begin with you, since you have been helping us cover all of these prosecutions of donald trump. It is so uncharacteristic of him to get hit with this indictment own stock all of the previous reactions that he has had to all of the previous indictments and that he just randomly has. Now we see the lawyers convincing him or him claiming the lawyers have convinced him to shut up about it on monday. Who knows how that really happened. He had nothing to say on monday anyway. This may be temporary. It may all explode tomorrow. But today is a different day for donald trump. I had the exact same reaction. It is the fact that he has for criminal cases that cannot be easy. That has to weigh on you. I think its something more. Of course he wants to try his case in a place where, in the court of Public Opinion and not in the court of law, where facts and law matter. But there are two big things that are coming up. In the georgia case and in the d. C. Case the judge is going to be deciding when is there a trial date. D. C. In particular, thats going to happen on august 28th. When the judge said essentially, you keep doing this its going to be a factor in why its going to be sooner. So thats one reason that he may be putting a muzzle, it least temporarily, and the other is, and this is where we have experts on the show better than i, if hes out on bail, three cases soon to be four cases, in georgia in the statute requires that a judge find that he is not a risk of flight, not in the danger to the community, and does not pose a risk to obstructing justice or interfering with witnesses. I know in d. C. Judge chutkan is going to be focused on that like a laser. No prosecutor, no judge wants to see a defendant inciting violence and trump has a long history. Those i think are the constellation of reasons why we may see, for at least a short time, a more muted donald trump. Gwen Keyes Fleming, andrew tease these up for georgia expertise. That georgia mandate on judges, on leaving people out on bail, have the guarantee that they want it any way interfere with witnesses. Thats a serious problem for donald trump in georgia already. Just this week, when the former Lieutenant Governor in georgia was publicly dont to be on his way to testify to the grand jury, donald trump publicly said he shouldnt do it. He publicly said, in writing, that a witness subpoenaed by fani willis should not show up and should not testify to the grand touring. It is so rare for a judge to have that information. There is the way he said it. He said jeff duncan will be testifying before the Fulton County grand jury. He shouldnt. Gwen, this is the kind of thing that a judge would have to take very seriously in georgia, on the issue of Donald Trumps continued freedom in this case. But do you think that specific georgia law is part of what might be controlling Donald Trumps behavior for, who knows, at least 24 hours . I think the only person that can really answer that is the former president and his lawyers. Again, when we get to the issue of bond, not only is the dea going to be able to put forth an argument as to whether she thinks any of the defendants should be held pending trial. But obviously their Defense Counsel is going to present the alternative view. This is going to be something thats going to be up to judge mcafee. Im sure he and his clerks and team are watching and seeing much of this documented evidence. But those decisions are going to rest on his shoulders. We will need to see how he evaluates them. Amy lee copeland, one struggles to imagine what any, anyone could seriously say in Donald Trumps defense at a monday event, which is why i read just that one page of the indictment, which contains 14 lies told in the famous phone call to Brad Raffensperger, lies usually get ignored by us and our coverage of the phone call because were just stuck on the solicitation part of it, which is the get media levin thousand votes. But if you are defending donald trump against this accusation of this being a criminal enterprise, you have to take on each one of those grotesque lies in those 13 lies in that phone call. I just dont see where the Trump Defense begins on material like that. Well, it wasnt it wasnt absolutely perfect phone call, lets begin with that principle. Beyond that you make a point, right, because thats what trump has said about it. Just one adjective. Perfect. Okay, thats fine for his rally audience. But to take it on as a matter of evidence with those 13 lies that is in the indictment, how do you do that . How does a Defense Lawyer look at the 13 lies in the indictment in that charge and come up with a response to it . It is going to be a very difficult Uphill Battle for this defense team. Theyre off to a good start if they can get their client to stop talking and start making things worse for himself. They have got to play the hand they have been dealt. They cannot change the facts, they cant change with their client said. They might be showing or trying to show that it doesnt matter. But theyre pretty bad when you read them all in succession. Its quite a conglomeration of things that mr. Trump said to the Secretary Of State. And andrew, hes using those 13 lies to support the criminal solicitation of give me 11,000 votes because of all of these lies im telling you about other votes and about ruby freeman and all of that. I think if they didnt have this problem of his continuing to talk is amy talks about, what you would say here if you are Defense Counsels i had lawyers telling me this is what happened. I had people doing this data collection. I was relying on things. So even though i may have been wrong, i wasnt knowingly lying. Its not enough that he was just saying it and he was wrong. It has to be with knowledge, intentionally, at the time. The problem is, one, if youve got all of these things, to, you have no underlying facts to support it. Thats why were not going to actually see this press conference on monday. And then, if it was really true, why is he threatening Brad Raffensperger with Criminal Prosecution . I mean, that, to me, is the best part of this. Its like the combination of saying i need you to find just the number that will let me when, and if you dont do it you understand i am the president of United States and you are playing with fire. I just think that constellation could make it really hard for a Defense Lawyer to mount a defense. Were gonna have to squeeze in a commercial break right here, and what i want to come back to when we come back is the conflict on this very point, the donald trump now has with mark meadows. Mark meadowss lawyer in his first filing in this case to try to rem