The planet one. Im ayman, lets get started. But first, we want to begin with some Breaking News on Hurricane Hilary. The National Weather service forecasters are saying that that has just been downgraded. Hillary is now a category two hurricane, with estimated sustained winds at a maximum of hundred ten miles per hour. Rain and wind ahead of the storm are already affecting parts of [interpreter] county, that is the eastern part of san diego county. And riverside county, just north of imperial county. Those areas could end up bearing the brunt of the storms rain. The very latest from the National Hurricane center it continues to warn is likely. We are going to bring you quick updates throughout the night on the trajectory of that storm, and if we get any more news we will bring that to you as soon as possible. But switching away from Hurricane Hilary for a moment, and focusing tonight on some new developments and quite frankly, a new timeline in the Georgia Election interference case. This week, the disgraced ex president and several members of his inner circle were hit with Felony Charges in connection with their efforts to overturn the 2020 president ial Election Results in georgia. The Fulton County district attorney, fani willis, says that the Arrest Warrant has now been issued for all defend its, which have until Friday August 25th to surrender voluntarily. According to new reporting from nbc news, three senior Law EnforcementOfficials Say they expect trump to surrender no earlier than this upcoming thursday. That would be the day before that deadline. Arraignments are set to take place of the week of september 5th, with a proposed trial date of march 4th. Thats just one day before super tuesday. News reports that attorneys for trump or expected to meet early next week with the Fulton County district attorneys office, in order to negotiate the terms of the ex president s a bond package. News of that meeting comes just after trump canceled a monday press conference, you remain remember, he was supposed to unveil socalled evidence of fraud in georgias 2020 president ial election, setting the advice of his lawyers. Though, it doesnt look like thats happening. One look at his 41 count indictment, and you can kind of understand why trumps attorneys advised him to hit the brakes on at that press conference, if you will. Now, sweeping 98page documents really give us a most competitive look at how trump and his allies basically schemed to steal the election, including the quote, Criminal Enterprise that they built to do so. And at the heart of williss case is one specific georgia statute. The Racketeer Influence and corrupt organization, or as it is commonly known if you watch any movies or Law And Order episodes, rico law. It is a powerful tool that allows prosecutors to bundled together what may seem like unrelated crimes or events committed by a host of different people. If those crimes are perceived to be in support of a common goal. Its also ironically a law that helped a bolster the career of one of the codefendants in this case, Rudy Giuliani. I do think that the work in my office and other parts of the Justice Department have changed the definition of the problem of crime in america. Were going to attack it as a business, not just as individual crime. We followed up with some rico cases, and at some point in the future, i was the first one to use the racketeering statute, for public corruption. So, the very same law that helped the former u. S. Attorney for the Southern District of new york lockup mobsters and grab the National Spotlight in the process, could now very well land him behind bars. That that stain sense of irony hardly applies to donald trump. Former trump fixer Michael Cohen once said his xbox quote, used Mafia Type Tactics to battle foes and advance his personal agenda. And im sure you may remember trumps socalled perfect phone call with volodymyr zelenskyy, which he then the president asked ukraines leader, with a dialogue straight out of a monster movie, quote, do us a favor. So while trump has been compared to a mafia boss many times throughout this year, this weeks indictment as the new yorkers Susan Glasser points out, marks the first time anyone has done so in a court of law. And its this rico statute, along with several other factors unique to georgia, that really make williss investigation perhaps the most challenging legal case for team trump. See, if the ex president doesnt take back at the white house in 2024, that job comes with a huge perk for donald trump. He has the ability to pardon himself of any federal charges. At least, thats what most scholars think, but that is still debatable. However, that power does not apply to state crimes. In georgia, unlike in many other states, theres even an added twist. Its not up to the governor of georgia to actually issue pardons, instead, that power rests with a fiveperson panel. To make matters even more difficult for trump, the board only considers applications for pardons beginning at least five years after an individual has completed their sentence. Theres another factor that makes georgia so unique, and its one that trump may not like. Transparency in the courtroom. State law requires that cameras be allowed in judicial proceedings with a judges approval. And that means that over the next few months, americans from coast to coast could have the opportunity to tune in as the Sprawling Conspiracy case unfolds live on tv. So, if donald trump can attempt to run both for president and from his legal woes, this latest indictment in georgia proves there may be nowhere left for him to hide. Here to discuss all of this, david henderson, Civil Rights Attorney and greg bluestein, political reporter for the atlanta journalconstitution. Hes also a political contributor. And michelle goldberg, columnist for the New York Times and it and msnbc political analyst. All three great friends of the show, great to have you back. Its quite the week, both politically and legally. Well start with the legal stuff. David, breakdown for us how rico was used for this, and why the use of the statute could make this case the ex president s force indictment, and by some assessment, the most damaging one. I do think this is the most damaging one. I think the primary reason is because of fani willis herself. And i say this because she is going after former President Trump the way that prosecutors typically go after defend. It it basically says for the good of the country, we have fully in Fulton County, if you create a Criminal Enterprise and youre stealing, i dont care if its Stealing Test Scores for teachers, i dont care if its a gangs involved in violent activity, if youre trying to steal an election, i am coming after you. And its almost like having all six infinity stones, because it gives her an incredible amount of power inside the courtroom. The january six proceedings, and if your lawyer like me, youre thinking this evidence is overwhelmingly bad. But how are you going to get you talk about it all in the case. A lot of it isnt admissible. But fani willis said it best herself, the rico statute allows you to tell the jury the entire story of what happened. Whereas over acts like Giuliani Attacking Ruby Freeman and shaye moss would normally be inadmissible, in a rico case, you can talk about all of it. And the reason thats important is because a jury doesnt need a good case, a jury needs a bad guy to convict. And there are an infinite number of ways that you can prove the former President Trump is exactly that when this goes to trial. Really quickly, david, how does this play out with 19 defendants . Obviously the 19 or not going to be on trial at once, or they . Well, fani willis says she intends to try them all at once. And i have to be honest with you, ive never seen a case like that before. I treat Child Advocacy and i never tell my students, try a case by yourself. Always get your mom there if you have to take notes with you. That means youre talking about 19 defendants, 38 lawyers, thats 57 people. And 19 people objecting at any given point in time. But this takes me back to my original point, shes treating him like any other defendant, and her expectation is that shes going to squeeze people, people will flip, there plead, will drop out before this goes to trial, so that number will get lower down. So, to davids point about the fact that fani willis is really coming at this hard with the racketeering charge, this isnt the first time shes used this expensive law in georgia. She is widely considered an expert, shes even brought on somebody whos even more of an expert or consider to be more of a rico expert. How does the d. A. s history play into this specific case with this law . Yeah, shes telegraphed that she would seek rico charges from the very beginning, including xi brought out our eco expert, but she herself is a rico expert. About a decade ago, she brought rico charges against a group of School Teachers and administrators that were perpetrating an Atlanta School cheating scandal. And was successful in it. So she herself has used rico charges to go after street gangs, to go after cheating teachers. And now, potentially, after the former president. So she is kind of honed this craft over the last decade, and has the expertise in office to be able to pursue these charges. Michelle, as i mentioned, donald trump over the years has been often compared to a crime boss from people like Michael Cohen, from people that have observed him and the way he talks, even the way that he operates, doesnt write things down, takes a step back, other people fall for him. What does it mean for someone like trump who has spent his entire business and political career behaving, speaking like a monster, to be essentially called a mob stir in a court of law . I think thats why this indictment was so clarifying. And dare i even say so satisfying. Because we see trump indicted obviously three times before this, but to have trump and his operation, forthrightly referred to as a Criminal Enterprise, which hes always run his political career as a political enterprise. He ran the white house in many ways as a Criminal Enterprise. But there is something of affirming after having watched this kind of avalanche of lies and corruption and scandal and s kind of an anti authoritarianism. To have somebody call it what it is has been such a relief. And i think for trump, even these put aside the very real possibility that he could spend the rest of his life in prison, and adjust the fact that he is going to have to sit there every day, in one courtroom after another, somebody whos never been able to sit still, somebody who kind of cant has no attention span, who has never been able to be undistracted for any length of time. Day after day he is going to have to sit there on television probably, in the case of georgia, listening to the evidence against him. Its as if he had to sit through the January 6th Hearings. And i think its so important that the January 6th Hearings, we saw the effect not just david spoke about a jury. But in terms of the populace. We saw the effect that the January 6th Hearings had on the american population. And now we have an opportunity to recapitulate that, for people to remember just what he put this country through. Thats such an important point as well, because he plays so much to the public audience. Not specifically to the court, so itll be important that that is counter waited by the fact that the American People will be able to see directly for themselves the case made against donald trump. David, let me ask you just from a legal strategy here, in the dojs election interference case, trump is the only one facing charges in georgia. That is not the case, and because he cannot pardon if he is elected, or if a republican president s election in the cycle, this cannot if they do get convicted. Could the stiff penalties associated with rico incentivize these defendants to cooperate in this case, unlike perhaps in another case . Perhaps like in the documents case, where you have walt nauta and others that are codefendants . Hers absolutely. And this builds on rachels point. There are a number of different Pressure Points this case is going to place on people, that our federal prosecution would. Not the least of which is not only are you looking at time, but youre looking at time in the state pen. That tends to make people have an awareness, other types of incorporation , i think the picture gets complex if you think about it, because so far none of these charges have gone to trial very quickly, and they take an incredibly long time to try. The case against the teachers with the test scores such a record in georgia, it lasted for eight months. So the real issue is not simply whether or not former President Trump is reelected, whether he can pardon himself, but can also make the argument that look, i cant be tried up in a trial that is going to last up to a year, which is more realistic, while im running for president. And i hate to say it, but i think he has a chance of succeeding with that argument. The flipside is, he is running for president , to raise money to pay his lawyers. If he is not reelected, i dont know how he can continue to pay these legal bills for any period of time, considering this case and all the legal battle hes fighting, because however that bill is now, its going to be eclipsed once we actually start getting to trial. Because lawyers cost a whole lot more when youre in court. The grift continues. Greg, let me ask you. You follow georgia politics a lot more than i do, but everybodys been following georgia politics the last couple of years. Youve got some new reporting on how brian kemp, the governor down there, and other Top Republican officials, theyre brushing up calls from Trump Supporters to i think that most americans would find that to be egregious just by looking at it, changing the rules just for trump. But what or the ex president s supporters asking for, and how is the governor responding . Yeah, theres such a high bar in georgia to issue a pardon. First of all, as you mentioned earlier, the governor doesnt have the right power and then to be eligible, you have to have serve your complete sentence and then wait five years and then be in good standing. So that means that even if there was some sort of power to pardon trump here in georgia, you have to serve a sentence and wait five years. So it already calls to review theres pardons, first of all, we take s, and the governor ands said they have no appetite for this. Theres also a separate call for a special legislative session to review fani willis and potentially try to sanction her or oust her from office. And again, key Republican Leaders in the Georgia Legislature and georgia government say they have absolutely no appetite for that either. In fact, there is a State Senator who made that call, who signed a petition, and as of right now theres only one lawmaker on the petition. I have to ask you, we were supposed to hear from trump on monday at that planned press conference, where he promised to produce irrefutable evidence the 2020 election was stolen. Him and mike lindell seemed to be the only two qatari people pursuing that. The ex president has now canceled those public remarks, and the release of this socalled report. Why do you think he is finally taking the advice of his lawyers, and how long do you think this behavior could last . Well, look. I think we saw one of his former lawyers on television saying that he is going to give the prosecutors more evidence, with this is going to be another overt act, when he shows up for this press conference. And so, look. I dont think we could say how long hes going to take his lawyers advice, because he is such an impulsive figure. He is going to be on debate stages, its really going to be able to refrain from either intimidating or suggesting that mike pence, a probable witness against him, not testify . Is he really going to be able to go however many months without breaking a law or at least rubbing right up against the edge of it . Hes never done that in the past. But i think the fact that he canceled his press conference, a, is a sign that there was nothing there to begin with, which was obvious, but also that he has at least momentary grasp of the seriousness of the charges against him. All right, michelle goldberg, greg bluestein, david henderson, thank you to the three of you for starting us off tonight. Greatly appreciate your time and your insights as always. Ahead, were going to continue the conversation with an important keep Donald Trumps georgia case out of Federal Court. One of the men making that plea, former deputy u. S. Attorney general donald ayer. He joins me live next to make his case. Mak his case his case tourists tourists that turn into scienti