Pushing for a speedy trial,s others are asking to move venue to federal court, in washington d. C. And then thursday, Fulton Countys district attorney, fani willis, faces jim jordans deadline to submit documents about her case to congress. As weve reported, she is now the target in the investigation by their public and lead house judiciary committee. And then on friday, the dea will finally release the Special Grand Jury report. And, while georgia is just one of four pending trials for trump, his campaign for president carries on. That has many people on both sides of the aisle wondering if the 14th amendment can, and should, be used to bar trump from running. Here is what former impeachment manager adam schiff said about that, earlier today. Well you know, the 14th amendment, and Section Three is pretty clear. If you engage in action of insurrection or rebellion against the government, or you give aid and comfort to those who do, you are disqualified from running. It doesnt require for you to be convicted of an insurrection. It just requires that you have engaged in these acts, its a disqualification from Holding Office again. And, it fits donald trump to 80. Joining me now, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor she is a cohost of the hashtag sisters in law podcast, and authors of the watergate girl. Also with me, nbc news justice reporter ryan reilly. And also, former republican congressman charlie dent, of pennsylvania. He is the Executive Director of the Aspen Institute of congressional programs. Thank you all for joining me. Jill, i want to start with you. Secretaries of state have been some of the first to discuss the 14th amendment case against trump. But, michigans top Elections Official says its not really in their hands. Take a listen. The secretaries of state in various states, may make an initial statement. There are four qualifications, or, within the balance of our 30. The ultimate decider in this case is going to be the courts, and really the ultimate court to resolve this will be the United States supreme court. And in that regard, we hope that decision, however it makes its way to the, court comes sooner rather than later. So, talk us through the legal pathways for barring trump from the ballot. So julian, it seems like all of the federal people who have weighed in on it, as well as laurence tribe, but also judge and two professors. Have all said that the 14th amendment, Section Three, means, without any kind of fiction, or even indictment, that a person can be barred from running. And the first step is secretaries of state, who say, he cant go on the ballot, or qualify. So they get to say the first word in that. But, that will be appealed by anybody who is barred from being on the ballot. And so, it will work its way up the court system, and ultimately, Joscelyn Benson is correct, it will make it to the supreme court, who will have the final say on whether or not. But, it does seem like the 14th amendment is very clear, and was intended to keep any of the members of the confederacy from Holding Office, if they held office while they were engaged in the insurrection against the United States. So, i think that its pretty clear that it does bar them. And i am optimistic, on the other hand, you can imagine what could happen if the shooter on the other foot. There is going to be accusations, without foundation, of wrongdoing by democrats. The difference is that here, there is clear evidence. And that makes a difference, to me. And ryan, the Fulton CountySpecial Grand Jury wrapped up nine months ago now. So, why are we just getting the report now . And when we get it on friday, what are you going to be looking for, in it . You know, i think we need to see a Bigger Picture of what exactly they are looking at. Potentially some of the evidence that they looked at, revealed there. But, we have a pretty good narrative, seeking indictment already, about the activity that we are talking about. Here so, well its interesting to see how the grand jury went about that, a lot of this is already in the public record, whether the in the january 6th committee report, or whether it be in some of the indictments that have come out thus far. So, a lot of this did happen in public, just as with january six, a lot of this was documented by the people who were doing it themselves. So i think that while there should be some interesting components to it, i dont know if its going to necessarily shatter the narrative about what we already know. Because the facts that we already know, have been enough for people to go forward with these complaints. So, i think the biggest thing this week will be the trial, and when they are set for. Because, that can really have some big implications going forward, especially if those cases go for without trump, with some of his codefendants, that gives trumps team a little bit of a preview of what they could expect, when his case eventually gets to trial. But really, kicking the can down the road, i think is their overall strategy, from the trump team here, seeking to delay these as much as possible. And in the federal cases, they were seeking 2026, as their trial date. They ultimately didnt get, and he will go to trial in a federal case next year, barring any unfortunate circumstances. But, i think overall, there is theyre just gonna be trying to delay this as much as possible, even though some of his codefendants are trying to step on the gas, and get this to trial as quickly as they. Ken and charlie, lets go from Fulton County to your old stomping grounds of washington d. C. House republicans are back, they are targeting trump prosecutors with their letter to d. A. Willis. And in fact, weighins and means chair now says the gop cant allow a Budget Crisis to jeopardize their work. Take a listen to what he had to say. If funding is installed, if there is a government shutdown, that would stop all of these investigations. That is absolutely the wrong thing. The American People deserve a government that is working for them, and we have to continue these investigations. How might this shape the negotiations on capitol hill . But look, every year at this time, around september 30th, the government needs to pass resolutions, to fund the government from september 30th, to sometime in the middle of december. If the Congress Fails to pass a resolution, then the government shuts down. And really, the congress then ceases to operate. Other than trying to get the government reopened. So, it would be very difficult for congress to conduct any business, other than, theyre going to reopen the government. So here Holding Hearings of any type, whether its on joe biden, or hunter biden, or anything else. That is going to have to wait, until they reopen. So, hopefully it will be a long shutdown. But if there is, one i suspect theyre going to be out of business on those investigations, at least and jill, speaking of a revenge, trump has barely toned down his threats on social media. He recently demanded an eye for an eye, in a Video Address for republicans. What would actually count as violating his bond, in Fulton County . I think a lot of people want to, know what does he have to do to get into trouble here . Its not just Fulton County. Remember, judge chutkan also warned him about threatening witnesses, or codefendants. And, im afraid that he is supporting the line. And, obviously, and the judge is going to be very careful, before stopping a candidate for president from commenting on evidence. But, its when he gets to the threatening part, when he starts threatening his opponent, but that doesnt count as a trial. Its only when he threatens a witness, or a codefendant, that he will be violating it. And then the question is, what can a judge do . Because really, there is very little, except for incarcerating him. And judges are not going to want to do that. A fine is not going to work. If it did, he wouldnt have a second Defamation Case against e jean carroll, by e. Jean carroll, rather. Because after the first sentence, and the find that he got, you would have thought he wouldnt have impeded the same defamation. But he did. So money, which he is raising from people who are making small donations, its not his money that is paying the fines, it is their money. So, it is not going to stop him, its gonna take something more then a fine to stop him from saying these horrible things. Charlie, president ial candidate nikki haley today, claimed trump is going to lose, if he is convicted. Take a listen. The American People are not going to vote for a convicted criminal. The American People are going to vote for somebody who can win a general election. I have faith in the American People. They know what they need to do. This seems to be the central gamble in the republican race. Do you think trumps rivals are betting the right way . Well i think many of his rivals have made a fundamental miscalculation. Its political malpractice, by not going after trump, authoritatively, and directly, the moment he was indicted in the first in new york. But, we can have a great debate, whether or not he is going to but i think its fair to say, as Chris Chrystia said, that this represents a terrible lapse of judgment, against the former president. The his judgment has been horrendous, his conduct which was quite clear, even if it may not be criminal. You know, paying the Hush Money Payment to a porn star, recklessly handling classified materials. Election interference in georgia, and of course all of the issues surrounding january six. So i think they are right to point out that trump is too great of a risk to be the republican nominee. I dont know when thats going to set him, or a lot of the republican base, when they see that this guy is clearly a problem, with independent and swing voters. In fact, i cant think of one independent who say, boy, these indictments are terrific, i think when you vote for that day. I dont think thats the way its going to work. Yes, the hardest elements of the trump base might think this is a terrific thing, but they are fighting the system. But, i think a lot of swing voters around this country are going to be repulsed by a man who has been indicted four times, and possibly convicted. So i think, is probably right. At some point, this whole dynamic might change. Its not changing right now in the primary, but it will certainly change in the general election. Well, lets see if this signals the beginning of more aggressiveness, against trump from his rivals. Jill, thank you. Ryan, and congressman dan, good to see you always. Still to come, the former leader of the proud boys is about to face a judge, for sentencing. Wait until you hear how long prosecutors want to put him away for, for his role in january 6th. Plus, President Biden has strayed from saying Donald Trumps name. But thats about to change, according to new reporting. And later, the Breaking News in nevada. Tens of thousands are stranded in the desert, after torrential rains cut off roads. One person, has died. We will get an update from the scene. But first, to richard with the other big stories we are tracking this hour. On msnbc. Thank you julian. Convicted murderer who escaped from a pennsylvania prison thursday, was spotted in new surveillance video. Danelo was convicted of first degree murder, and was sentenced to life in prison. He was seen a mile a half away from the philadelphia area prison. He is considered extremely dangerous, police urge those with information to call 911. A big shape in ukraines leadership. Ukraines president says he will replace his defense minister, alexei reznikov, who is under scrutiny for mishandling military contracts. This is the first major change to leadership since russias invasion. Almost one and a half years ago. And, Jimmy Buffetts cause of death, now revealed. The Margaritaville Singer Songwriter died after a fouryear battle with skin cancer. An obituary on his website, said he continued to perform well receiving treatment, Jimmy Buffett was 76. Right after this. Break t after this brea hopping . You should watch your spending honey. Im saving with liberty mutual, mom. 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Week on thursday, former leader of the proud boys, will face sentencing for his role on january 6th attack at the capitol. Prosecutors are seeking more than 30 years in prison. Four of the proud boys have already been sentenced for their roles in the attacks, all of them receiving between ten and 20 years in federal prison. One defendant Dominic Pezzola who was accused of smashing through a Capitol Window with a riot shield. He was a filed after being taken away in handcuffs after raising his fist saying trump won. Ryan riley is back with us. His new book, sedition hunters, is out next month. Ryan, prosecutors are asking the judge to hand theo a 33 year prison sentence. Yet, the other four defendants have received senators have ranged from 10 to 20 years. Why do you think that is . What are you looking for in this hearing . Were not expecting to get that for 33 years, just because its how the judges have decided other cases. Of, course the really interesting thing about Enrique Tarrio cases, hes wasnt actually at the capitol on january six, he was arrested in connection with a previous event. There is these two events after the 2020 election in d. C. , including one in which he was burning of the flag, he actually ended up being arrested for just before january six when he came back into town. After he came back on that flight, he was at a Baltimore Hotel on january six, prosecutors say because of the role he played in organizing all of this and knowing what was going to happen he even filled the venue called premonition outside of the capitol in a spooky, motifs and the masked up. They think he was a major part of, this even though he actually wasnt on the battleground so the speak on january six itself. He was a key leader and. This, but just given the sound as a judge kelly has handed down thus far, target imagined him approaching that. Im very curious to figure out whether or not he ends of going above or beyond at 18 years. 18 years is the current record. There is a tie for that. One proud boys and one member of the oath keepers have both received 18 years in federal prison. Federal prison time is not the same a state time. You really only, have to serve 85. Theres only so much good timing can get. You get credit for the time you already served, but its real time, and so 18 years isnt much much you achieving of even if you are an obedient emit in federal prison. Lets go back to Dominic Pezzola for a second. Of all of the fans in the proud boys trial, he was the only one not convicted of seditious conspiracy. What do you make of that . What was interesting because he was not as involved in some of the preplanning as the other four defendants were convicted. So, you can sort of follow the jurys logic there that he was a route was brought in the last minute but wasnt in some of those cute discussions. Its always interesting when you see the story cases, because theres been such this talk about d. C. Juries cannot decide these cases fairly. Then, you see they make some really educated and well thought out decisions like this, deciding that, government ties proof beyond the reasonable doubt that these individuals committed acts of conspiracy. Really, that supports the prosecutions case on appeal, because it really shows that jurors were careful about what they were, and not just buying that prosecutors were arguing. Individualized decisions for individual defendants based upon evidence. It really boost the idea that jurors are deciding these cas