Coconspirators. Well, today, everyone can see every moment in this courtroom. You can see it with your own eyes. This is the very first Pretrial Hearing for the Georgia Rico Case against defendant trump and others. As a matter of history, what you see unfold here, what unfolds minute by minute is the first time trump is seeing inside a courtroom where trump and his defendants will stand inside a trial to overthrow an election, to abuse power to hold on to power, illegally say the prosecutors. Well put this back up here. When you look at this judge, when you look inside the courtroom, this is where these defendants will be judged. At times what you might see might remind you of any other courtroom in america. People standing and sitting for the judge, the Bailiff Keeping Order in the corner of the room. The judge going through papers. Sometimes what we might see will be at times repetitive or dry. Yet what you are looking at is where these individuals will be judged for their roles in the racketeering to stage a coup. That makes todays hearing different for reasons we all know, because seeing the different. Reading or hearing about charges or a booking is certainly something very different than seeing actual mug shots, as the nation and world felt when these bookings first hit. Now today we see the process of the representatives for these indicted codefendant you see here. Ken cheseboro and Sidney Powell making their case as their defendants walk the line from the booking to this court process. And codefendants lawyers asked why should one of them, cheseboro, deal with a jury, sit there for weeks if not months, listen to all this evidence related to others in this case, arguing hes never been there, never met ms. Powell. I show you that because that is what theyre entitled to do. Theyre making a fairness argument about why the man on the upper left should not be in the rico case, the rico trial of the woman on the lower left. But they lost today, the judge denying the motion to sever the cases. Thats a win for the d. A. s prosecutor who held firm, putting those two on trial for their alleged joint rico acts. They also, the prosecutors broad ton argue today that trying this case once is better than, quote, the same case 19 times. Judge, we contend that we must prove the entire conspiracy against each and every one charged. Each and every one charged. So, the support in the interest of judicial economy would have to make the economy as to whether or not the court wants to try the same case 19 times. Prosecutors today also hammering the point that in a rico conspiracy, any one defendant is on the hook for what the others did in the alleged conspiracy, as long as the evidence is there that the prosecutors can prove that holistic case. So, weve heard a lot from both defendants about they didnt know the other people, they were located thousands of miles apart, they didnt even know that the other parts of the conspiracy were going on. The case law is clear that that does not matter. Of course any time a person enters into a conspiracy, they are liable for all of the acts of all of their coconspirators, and thats it. Evidence against one is evidence against all. Evidence against all. Thats the case theyre making. Prosecutors on offense today. They won that motion i just mentioned but they also ran into some skepticism from the judge over the d. A. s plan for this fast sweeping trial. We contend that a trial of these 19 codefendants will take four months. In terms of the number of witnesses, theyre in excess of 150 witnesses that the state intends to call. It seems unrealistic we can handle all 19 in 40 something days. There you go. Thats the judge basically saying to the d. A. And shes represented by the line prosecutors, same as jack smith we see more observing the case than arguing himself. But its the judge saying, hey, are you really going get this done this quickly . Several esteemed lawyers said in these coup cases in washington and georgia could be the most important trials of any u. S. Government officials ever. Some say it could be actually the most important case in American History period. Now, thats a matter for law and history and historians to debate over time. What i got to tell you tonight, seeing is different. Just like the last trial of the decade made an impact not only because of the case you may remember state of california vs. O. J. Simpson. It also was a big deal was the cameras were in the courtroom. California, like georgia, let the cameras in. Federal courts dont. And that can make all the difference in the world. Together as a country, and i bet people abroad in other countries, when defendant trump walks into that room and some of the other defendants i mention walk in, they are going to see this process play out. The point is not necessarily to root for a particular outcome, although its a free country, and people are free to wash the case with their own interests or ideas in mind. But if nothing else, what will be on display in the same courtroom you just saw, is the wheels of Justice Holding anyone and potentially everyone accountable. No person above the process. No person above the transparency, no person beef the law. Were joined by maya wiley and melissa murray. We showed some of that. Were going to put more back on the screen. Todays hearing had the lawyers and the news. Doesnt have the key defendant trump or others. What does it mean, Professor Murray, for people to see this, which they dont get to do in the federal cases . As you suggested, theres a level of transparency where the individual can actually see what is happening in the courtroom, hear the arguments being made on both sides, and watch as the judge deliberates. This is something thats utterly absent in the federal system at the trial level, at the appellate level and at the supreme court. Weve gotten some changes because of the pandemic. The court live streams audio. But weve never gotten an opportunity to have cameras in the courtroom at any level of the federal judiciary, and i think that does detract from the prospect of true transparency in this important set of courts we try many of our most important cases and have results in in of our most important issues. Maya, im curious, same question to you. If i may exempt the three of us as both lawyers and nerds, i think we know why this can be interesting or intellectually nourishing, or if youre in law school, you study, you read it, you see it. Maya, my question to you is why should everyone else care, and would you recommend people watch parts of this when we get to trial . Oh, i think were going to see a lot of people tuning in to parts of this and possibly as much as they possible can. But its because of the stakes. The stake here is understanding that one of the most that the most powerful person in the country at the time of the allegations allegedly did and also a bunch of powerful people around this person. So this person at the time being the president of the United States and lawyers people who are usually trusted to uphold their oaths that they make to be a member of the bar and stand up in court or make any other representations in a criminal process. This is a big deal. If weve learned one thing about the American Public over the past several years as weve watched all of these issues about your democracy unfold is that they will tune in because of the stakes. They do care. And im sure melissa, along with me, along with you, ari, have just been really gratified that it has demystified a lot of the law for a lot of folks who are thankful to say, oh, i appreciate understanding this now. And the opportunity to learn and understand it better. Because the law should not be mystical and should not feel like you only need a legal translater to understand either the states, or whether the system is working and how it worked. I think its important to democracy. Yeah, that makes sense to me, and its sort of why the courts are supposed to be transparent. Both of you have alluded to, and i mentioned aspects where that comes up short. We can debate that policy. But in general, especially when america was first founded and the court system was developed, it was seen as a check that there would be transparency. You would be judged by your peers. And so often on this program we talk about all the shortcomings, the work yet to be done. I think the public Transparency Part of this, the accountability, is one of the things that can work well, particularly if you want to go into court and bs or lie or spin or say wild things. People are going to watch it and see it. Theres another part i want to play from today, maya, where the prosecutors were talk about this idea about what it would mean if they gave in to the trump codefendantss to have a billion of 19 trials. This involves victims. This were victims targeted by the enterprise, and their lives were turned upside down, and thats an important part of this case and having those people come and testify multiple times over and over would both inconvenience but more importantly traumatize them. As mentioned, they won this argument, at least with regard to those two codefendants. Maya, your thoughts on that skirmish today as well as what i mentioned, the judge giving d. A. Skepticism about doing this all together really fast. I think all these exchanges on these points from whether to sever or not and what it might mean in terms of how quickly this case can go to trial, it demonstrates how human these processes are. They impact people. You know, whether its mr. Cheseboro or ms. Powell saying, look, youre going make this harder for me to prove my innocence as well as make me sit through their long proceedings. And the judge, i think, rightly saying, yeah, but thats actually not a harm to you in the sense of how we look at and balance the law here. But at the same time saying, look, it actually really does matter, because we all saw what happened to two black women in term os their lives because lies were told about them, and we have heard from them directly about the trauma to their lives. It is retraumatizing and it does matter. Whether and how it impacts real people who have been victimized. I also think whats particularly interesting to me is a very real assessment of the differences in strategy between the District Attorney in Fulton County and jack smiths team. One went more surgical and one went broad. There are upsides and downsides to both. But in the hearing today we heard some of the downsides, which is there are real challenges to going Fast And Furious with so many people and 150 witnesses. Yeah, its funny, you say that, were observed that, and as lawyers we tend to be extra cognizant of it. The doj approach has been a scalpel. The d. A. Brought a baseball bat. Either welcome back effective depending how you wield it. The judge is supposed to be independent and fair. The judges skepticism notable there as well. I want to thank Professor Murray for being here. Maya comes back. Bill maher is here tonight i have been telling everyone. The one and only bill maher. Political comedian extraordinary. Kevin mccarthy looking at another threat from his right todaying but first, trump apparently ignored some key warnings about how he could get searched if he didnt comply. That was from his own team. Its new evidence jack smith has. Were back with that in 60 seconds. At in 60 seconds. For asthma driven by eosinophils. Its designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. Fasenra is not for sudden Breathing Problems or other eosinophilic conditions. Allergic reactions may occur. Dont stop your Asthma Treatments without talking with your doctor. Tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. Headache and sore throat may occur. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Get back to better breathing. Ask your doctor about fasenra. ella fashion moves fast. Setting trends is our business. Get back to better breathing. We need to scale with customer demand. In real time. jen so we partner with verizon to take our operations to the next level. marquis with a custom private 5g network. ella with verizon business, we get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. marquis so our customers get what they want, when they want it. jen its not just a network. Its enterprise intelligence. vo learn more. Its your vision, its your verizon. Hes also a criminal defendant in four trials, but those are just the criminal cases. Theres also the other legal headaches and hes had several in the last 24 hours across the board. Take one of the cases that isnt among the four criminal trials, a new york judge denying an effort to delay the civil trial for bank fraud, with a note, decline to sign, defendants arguments are completely without merit. Thats on pace for next month. Also in new york a judge found civil defendant trump liable for defaming e. Jean carroll again. The judge says the upcoming civil trial will focus on penalties, how much defendant trump has to pay because the key finding is that he already defamed her again. Were also learning details on the the jack smith documents probe. Abc reported that trump was warn by his own lawyer that he could be searched. A lawyer saying, if you dont comply with the grand jury subpoena you could be held in contempt, and trump would we ply then according to the notes, what happens if we dont respond or dont go to ball . The lawyer responds they could go to a judge, get a Search Warrant and arrive here. That is what happened. The reporting cites a transcript of voice notes made by Donald Trumps then attorney evan cork ran. Hes one of the many attorneys who have gotten caught up in these legal probes, including the jack smith probe. Maya wiley is back with us. Maya, im cure your thoughts as to how that works for jack smith. Someone might say, wow, he knew that was coming or acted recklessly as kind of an opinion, but what would jack smith do with this . Well, this just goes to underscore a point about trumps state of mind. If youre facing criminal charges and part of the allegation is, you did a crime, you know, by definition, different from a civil trial, you have to establish exactly what was going on. You can do it by inference. You dont have to be direct evidence. And of course in this case, the fact that he had the documents is already a legal problem for him. But on the obstruction, on the fact that he had the request for the documents back and then said, i dont have them. I dont know. But yet hes having this exchange with an attorney, really plotting out, well, what if i do this . What if i had them this way . What if i refuse to comply . It establishes a frame of mind that is extremely helpful to the prosecution and extremely harmful to trump. Yeah. He was on the conservative hugh hewitts radio show. I want to play a bit of that. Did you tell anyone to move the boxes . I dont talk about anything. You know why . Because im allowed to do whatever i want. I come under the president ial records act. Im not telling you. They ask you on the stand, did you order anyone to move boxes . How will you answer . Im not answering that question to you, but im totally covered under the law. Just a brief exchange there, maya. As you know, we take thought with what we do play. We chose to run that excerpt. Its striking because number one, i think mr. Hewitt asks a fairly straightforward question that could come up at trial if he took the stand, and it shows that even some trump allies or conservatives are curious about how its all going to play out . Does he have reasonable defenses . Could he be convicted in two federal trials before election day . That seem to be mr. Hewitts concern. What do you make of what we heard there . You know, i heard a donald trump that maybe listened to some of the directions and advice he probably got from some of his attorneys, which is not to answer concern questions. Because look, theres no right answer to that question, right . If he says no, perjury, thats one thing. And if he says yes, thats an admission. So that he cant win. Normally he can be quite, you know, loquacious, as we know. He likes to talk. And he was very clear that he shouldnt. And i think that was different from the donald trump we sometimes see who can be quite reckless with what he says and, you know, anyone who has imagined a client like him probably cringing. At the same time, you know, part of what it does is says, i have a legal argument, and it doesnt matter what i did. That legal argument will save me. And as a matter of law, that is simply untrue. Yeah, and that you wouldnt have gotten this far the judge and others have already found those were government materials. They certainly have been returned, right . If the government comes and seizes something thats yours and you have decent lawyers and youre him, by now you would have gotten it back. He hasnt gotten anything back, which suggests your point, it wasnt his. Maya, thanks for being here. Take care. Let me tell folks whats coming up. Kevin mccarthy, remember that rough and rocky road to the speakership . That nightmare as come back as he faces off with matt gaetz. But coming up sooner, bill maher on the beat. Were getting into everything from trump to marijuana to a. I. Stay with us. Stay with us rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. 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