You do . Youre assuming that i cant bring the republicans together. Thats why im running. Plus, Donald Trumps plans to appeal a judges ruling finding him liable for fraud. Could that impact the trial already in its fourth day . Also, scathing new remarks from new yorks Attorney General declaring the trump show is over. And later, new controversy for the Biden White House this morning, details on miles of new border wall about to be built in texas and the federal laws being waived to do it. Hello, and thank you for joining us. Its 10 00 eastern, im Ana Cabrera Reporting from new york, and we begin with the power vacuum in washington as a furious rush begins to find the next speaker of the house. Republican Steve Scalise and jim jordan are among the early candidates at least vying for the gavel, but its tense in the house. Very tense ahead of the planned October 11th Vo so is there anyone that fractured caucus can get behind . Nbcs ali vitali is on capitol hill where she just spoke with jim jordan. Also with us is nbcs Jonathan Allen and former republican congressman from florida, david jolly. Ali, you just spoke exclusively with jordan, what did he have to say . Reporter thats exactly right, ana, and you showed a piece of our interview where i talked to him about the most pressing issue that any speaker whos next would have to face, which is avoiding the next Government Shutdown. Thats largely how we got into this place of having to find a new speaker in the first place. Mccarthy effectively held accountable for looking at democrats to help keep the government open. I asked jordan in the clip you show what had he would do differently. He thought that he wouldnt have the issues that mccarthy had in uniting his conference. Ill play for you a little m more of that exclusive conversation we had about what it would take to avoid the next shutdown. Watch. How would you have done differently than mccarthy in this latest shutdown this weekend . He did have to look to democrats. Well, the key is i think and i hope i can get our team to rally around the process i just described, which is that longer term cr with the 1 cut, that leverage there. Put yourself in his reality, which is that republicans continued to stonewall him, the government was about to shutdown. Youre in that youre assuming that i cant bring the republicans together. I think thats why im running. Reporter and so of course the next question that i asked him, ana, was so youre saying it was in part personal for mccarthy with some of these other members of the conference. Jordan dodged on that, but reading between the lines, that is clearly what hes saying. He lacks some of the personal animosities that mccarthy had with key people in the conference like gaetz. I do want to tick through a few other pieces of our interview that i thought were notable, especially as you mentioned the frustration and tension within the republican conference writ large right now, especially that ire directed towards matt gaetz. There is some chatter from some republicans that they want to oust him from within the rank os. Republican conference. Thats something i asked jordan if he would support. He said he would not be supportive of that, that he thinks that gaetz has been a good member of the conference. Of course there are many people that ive spoken to in the last few days who vehemently disagree. I think its striking when you talk about the looming possibility of another Government Shutdown before the holidays, i asked jordan if he thought that a shutdown would be unacceptable to him. Thats a line that mccarthy had previously laid out, as well as mcconnell, schumer, and President Biden. He didnt say that. He thought hed have the leverage to be able to avoid it. It is an important thing to note, especially as members are trying to figure out how the next speaker would contend with the looming possibility of a shutdown. Its not just jordan. Its also the current number two, Steve Scalise. Those are the two that are officially in the race. Ive been able to report this morning along with my colleague Julie Tsirkin that kevin hern has been actively making calls to gauge interest. Hes not officially in the hunt yet. And ali, were just getting word that as this battle heats up, rep warren davis of ohio has now endorsed jordan for speaker. So its getting even more interesting. Congressman, i want to play some sound including some of my interview just yesterday with representative bob good who voted to oust mccarthy. I just want to highlight how tense the situation on capitol hill is getting. Lets listen. I think if we hung around here right now you would probably see some folks breaking out in a fistfight and id love to tell you im kidding. Fights and negotiates and uses the leverage we have as house majority. I think no speaker should ever have a proverbial gun to their head at the threat and the whim of one or in this case eight members. So congressman, do you think realistically they can get one person for everybody to rally behind . I dont know, ana. I mean, look, i think to alis reporting, jonathans as well, its kind of scalise and jordan and Everybody Else right now, but that dynamic could shift. Those are the two front runners. The question is can you get to 218 votes in your carcass. Heres where the house caucus rules come into play. Historically Behind Closed Doors whoever got to over 51 of the caucus votes, everybody would agree to support them on the floor. That began to unravel, actually, in 2015, and i admit to being part of that when Kevin Mccarthy had more than 50 of the caucus. But we wouldnt give him our votes on the floor. And thats how we ended up with paul ryan, and so what the new speaker will have to do, if its scalise or jordan or if neither one can do it and it moves to somebody else is Behind Closed Doors can they secure the full commit the of all 218, meeting the gaetz and the lunas before they go to the floor. This is where time is actually on the republicans side. In january they had to go to the floor right away, and the whole world had to watch their mess happen in public, 15 votes. They dont have to do that right now. Mchenry can stay the speaker pro tem until republicans are able to unite Behind Closed Doors, behind one person, go to the floor with 218. Im not so sure congress is on their side given the Government Shutdown deadline, right . Isnt that going to be a potential issue and need to have some expediency here to get somebody who they can unite behind in order to hold votes . Yeah, when i say time, i mean it doesnt have to be this coming week, but youre right, time is ticking on the 45 day cr. Ali is exactly right. Its a weird situation, ana, which successful Speaker CandidateBehind Closed Doors can promise that theyre going to lose the budget showdown, but theyd still be a good speaker. Math is math. Theres a Democratic Senate and a democratic president , and whatever the speaker promises better be in the realm of reality. If they over promise theyre going to end up where mccarthy was. Jonathan i want to highlight your new piece on nbc. Com entitled the gop armed its bazooka caucus, what could go wrong . And you write this, the gaetz phenomenon is indicative of a larger trend within the Republican Party and within the house. The use of emergency measures, the heaviest available political artillery to thwart majority rule, disrupt Democratic Institutions and oust political opponents. Can you expand upon that . Absolutely. You know what weve seen in recent years is a whole bunch of stuff that we never saw before because no one ever contemplated that this motion to vacate the chair in the House Of Representatives was used only once before the last few years. It was joe cannon who was the speaker at the time, and he called on a vote to remove himself in order to show how powerful he was and put down that vote. The reason that its being looked at now is in the post9 11 era, congress was worried about what would happen if a speaker was incapacitated or a large number of members of congress was incapacitated. They changed the rules around to how the speakership would transfer to a designee of the speaker. It made members of Congress Look at this more closely and say this could be used as a political tool. The concept behind all these rules changes about 20 years ago was that they wanted to be able to have an Emergency Tool in the event of some sort of catastrophe. Now its being used for basic part sanship. Now youre seeing impeachments all the time, an Impeachment Inquiry the house has undertaken without a full vote of the house, without the need of expediency of trying to move on impeachment based on the president about to leave office. More and more of these procedural tools are being used. You saw these members of congress saying that the speakers operating with a gun to his head. Its much more than that. If you hand a small minority the ability to disrupt the house, theyre going to do it in order to get more power than they have in their numbers. And i even think about the disruption of the Electoral College count and certification, which we saw on january 6th and how that unfolded. Congressman, do you agree with this assessment that jonathan just, you know, laid out for us, this idea that theyre able to wield these sort of questionable tactics against political opponents, but i wonder if its a wakeup call for them now that its coming back to actually harm them directly. Yeah, i think you have to bring into this how politics has evolved in the last 20 years, what it takes to get elevated to the congress now can be a social media presence, not experience in the legislature, and so we are populating our congress with people who have been rewarded and they respond to different incentives than weve seen in the past. The question becomes what does that mean for democracy . You can look at this week and say, look, were in a lot of trouble, and perhaps that is the case, to see the unraveling of a major party. But the reality is if you take all the dressing off of this, we are going to see coalition governing for the next 18 months, 14 to 16 months at least, and that is out of just pure necessity. You can look at the debt deal. You can look at the cr, what we know will take to budget for the nation over the next 12 to 16 months is ultimately going to be a coalition. Just the two major parties are going to deny that. Its going to take a coalition, so maybe thats a Silver Lining to the destruction were seeing this week. Hopefully so, thank you so much, former congressman david jolly, Jonathan Allen, and ali vitali. When were back in 60 seconds, Donald TrumpsCivil Fraud Trial, his new bid to get a ruling in the case finding him liable for fraud thrown out. Plus a deadly and seemingly random stabbing on a new york sidewalk captured here on camera. The disturbing details were learning. Also ahead, my conversation with a group of High School Students navigating the College Application process as the white house announces new student Loan Forgiveness. And later, the tsunami of price hikes coming from some of your favorite streamers. Reamers. all toooo youuuuu sean i wish for the amazing new iphone 15 pro jason sean do you mean this one the one with titanium . sean no way i can trade this busted up thing for one. jason maybe stealing wishes from the birthday boy is not your best plan switch to verizon and trade in any iphone and get the new iphone 15 pro on them. sean what . jason yup, and on an Amazing Network sean and i dont have to ruin anymore Birthday Parties jason yeah, that ship has sailed. Lets go get you the iphone. Here we go, come on hon. vo trade in any iphone in any condition for a new iphone 15 pro on us. Only on verizon. Welcome back. We have now entered day four of the Civil Fraud Trial into Donald Trumps business empire, and after three days of a media circus with the former president choosing to appear in court and raging about the judge and the Attorney General in breaks, he is not expected at court today, but his lawyers officially said they plan to file an appeal over the major decision so far from the judge in this case, that trump is liable for fraud. Lets bring in nbc news correspondent Lindsey Reiser outside the courthouse in lower manhattan, and former manhattan assistant District AttorneyRebecca Roiphe. Rebecca, lets start with trumps team appealing the ruling. Trumps team will ask the court to consider whether judge engorons ruling acted in excess of its jurisdiction. Do you think this goes anywhere . I dont, but you know, this was an expected move on the part of defense attorneys. It is entirely possible that the Appellate Court would disagree with the judges interpretation of the law here. I think its based on a a reasonable and probably the most accurate understanding of the law as its been interpreted thus far, but you know, unexpected things can happen. Lindsey, lets turn to whats happening today in court. What witnesses do we expect, and how will it be different without trump there . Reporter well, ana, we know that Attorney General james is back in her usual seat in the courtroom. The former president is not, he flew back to florida yesterday. Yesterday we did hear some fireworks in that courtroom, the judge getting frustrated over the Cross Examination of accountant Donald Bender going year after year, property after property, the judge essentially saying cant we lump all this together. At one point saying this is ridiculous and pounding on the bench. The former president shaking his head at the drama unfolding in flont of him. His attorney saying that bender only seemed to recall what the government wanted him to recall and saying he never had to negotie how to ask questions before. Remember, this is a bench trial. Theres no jury. Its just the judge there. And we heard also from witness number two, who was the accountant who took over after bender, and he for the first time introduced the roles of eric and don jr. In the case. Remember, theyre defendants as well, and they signed of these Engagement Letters over the Financial Statements that the Attorney Generals Office says were overly inflated. Today were going to hear more Cross Examination potentially that lasts the entire day, Cross Examination of bender. Its kind of confusing. Theyre sort of flipflopping witnesses. Once that wraps up, we could hear from jeffrey mcconnie, senior vp who also testified in the tax fraud case wooefrt not expected to see the president for some time until hes called to testify. Were not exactly sure of the exact order of witnesses but isnt expected to be anytime soon. The Attorney General doesnt have to call him. It sounds like his defense will if that doesnt happen, ana. Attorney general Letitia James spoke yesterday about trumps appearances over the last few days. Take a listen to this. I will not be bulied and so mr. Trump the donald trump show is over. This was nothing more than a political stunt. A fundraising stop, and now we can continue to go forward with our trial, and we are confident that justice will be served. What do you make of her comments and what do you see as the impact of trump being in court the last few days . I think this was a tactical error on the part of Attorney General james. She is already vulnerable to the repeated attacks that this is politically motivated, even if it is not, she opened herself up to that by campaigning on the repeated statement that she was going to go after trump. And therefore, i think this statement was not wise. She should have remained silent and allowed him to open himself up to these sorts of arguments by others rather than stepping in right here. But that said, you know, its very hard when there is a defendant like the former president who plays to the media to remain silent and not try to counter his message that hes delivering. All right, thank you so much, Rebecca Roiphe and Lindsey Reiser for that conversation. And now to more legal developments for donald trump, this time in georgia. This Afternoon Lawyers for his codefendant in the Fulton County case, Sidney Powell will be back in the Fulton County courthouse accusing the District Attorney of misconduct. This as the Atlanta Jou