Mchenry. They would have to get democrats to go along with that. That gets us into the fantasy politics deal of republicans negotiating with democrats to come up with a speaker. I wish that would happen. Maybe well get to that point, we wont get to that point today but i think its unlikely. If youre jordan, brendan saids hes not one to negotiate, historically i think thats true. Maybe on the cusp p of the speaker ship that changes. He can cut one short term deal about the Budget Agreement get these institutional old guard republicans on board and i think well go back to the old firebreathing jim jordan after that deal is done. But that seems to me to be the path for him if theres a path at all. These guys might not be able to come up with 217 votes. And i think thats very realistic about where were at. Want to bring in former republican governor of ohio john kasich. If my math is right, you served 18 years in the house, you know how things work. I do. Tell us what youre watching for and what do you make of the fact that Steve Scalise and Kevin Mccarthy voted for jordan here . That doesnt surprise me. Theres one that i noticed, and i havent looked at the entire list. Kay granger is i served with kay. Shes terrific. Shes the chairperson of the appropriations committee. She voted against him. Shes very conservative. Shes from fort worth, texas. I think chris, part of the reason she voted no is because i think she has seen jordan put a stick in the spokes of her bicycle. In other words, shes not sure that, in fact, we can november forward with a Budgeting Appropriations that we need to do, the funding of the government and i think shes skeptical of his ability to kind of lead the conference. Theres some other interesting things here i saw members of the Hispanic Caucus voted against him. Does that have something to do perhaps against the hard line on immigration . You have a mixture of some conservatives, some moderates and, you know, youre 20 votes down, its tough. Can they flip a kay granger . Can they flip these people . I suppose they can try. A number of people ive been talking to say its over. Its not over until its over. The idea that mchenry could be empowered to carry on for a certain period of time, i think is something that is an option. If it involves having some of the democrats support him, maybe theyre now looking to say, what is the best thing for us to do in the House Of Representatives to be able to advance an agenda. The agenda, the critical agenda, what are we doing with ukraine . What are we doing with israel . These are critical things. And, chris, the United States of america, when we create vacuums, when we dont know what were doing, we invite bad forces to fill that vacuum. I think its critical that those members of the house realize we have to have somebody thats going to be able to get along with joe biden, get along with the senate, work with republicans, have a conservative agenda but a realistic agenda. I was there when we passed the Balance Budget Act and we actually balanced a budget four years in if a row. It meant there had to be compromise. But the economy boom, things were better in america. And part of the opposition of jordan is in if peoples guts they say im not sure he can unify us and lead us but its not over until its over, chris. If you take the Acting Speaker and you say, okay were going to come up with some way so we can keep things moving while we figure this out, does that send a different message . There still isnt any House Speaker whos there because a majority of his fellow republicans support him. And someone who, as you rightfully point out, can work with democrats. I mean, jim jordan is someone who voted to certify elections in arizona and pennsylvania or reject certifications of elections. Has been somebody who after january 6th made it clear of his support for donald trump, continues to make it clear as trump does for him. Yeah. So where does that leave us . In. Chris, let me ask this, where are the democrats . They say the democrats are enjoying watching the republicans struggle. What price are we faye paying a country because of that . Ive said since the election of mccarthy, i said all the way back there, look, getting a coalition of republicans, you know, and republicans are going to call the tune, you can make some side deals with the democrats to give them a few more seats, a little better representation. But at the end you have a republican speaker, you have a conservativeled party in the house. But you have a coalition with democrats. Ronald reagan created book with democrats to pass his economic plan. When i was in the congress we worked all the time with the blue dog democrats. It wasnt like we were selling out our philosophy. We didnt get them all the time. But what you want to do is marginalize the extremists if you have four or five or six people who say no way, no how, go on the other side. And this hakeem jeffries, the minority leader he ought to be actively involved in discussions. Im told there have been discussions between republicans and democrats. I talked to members who told me thats something theyre interested in. But they also told me theres not been enough pain to see that through. Think about whats raging Around The World and its like watching you know, i mentioned to somebody today, too bad john belushi isnt there coming out of animal house trying to run the place. Its unbelievable. And the world needs to know where we are. We need stability. Look, jordan is what theyre doing right now, theyre whipping people when i say whipping i dont mean literally. Theyre talking to people, trying to pressure them to vote for jordan. You probably have scalise doing some of it. You have a whip team doing it. Can they move these people . If they cant they need to look for another approach and Empowering Mchenry will require some democrat support so what and well see where things go. We need stability in the house, in america, we need a Strong America now more than ever before. Lets talk about the implications for aid for ukraine and also israel. Weve seen whats happening on the ground there. We know the growing conce about a wider conflict. And lets not forget as Steve Kornacki pointed out. 20 votes didnt go for jim jordan right now, 19 didnt go for the last speaker and that went on for five excruciaing days before Kevin Mccarthy was elected. Do we have five days when you look at whats happening on the ground right now, governor . First of all, in regard to that situation, the israelis are facing an extremely difficult situation. They want to move and be in a position to be able to totally dismantle hamas. When you talk to people who are experts i served on the Defense Committee for 18 years. When you look at the tunnels you have in gaza city, which is clearly one of their focuses, chris, i have to tell you that people remember fallujah in iraq and the handtohand street, housetohouse fighting and the casualties. Israel has to be able to stand up and dismantle hamas. But they want to be in a position where they do it in a way in which they dont punish civilians. Its difficult to do, but that is their goal. The large scale invasion has been held off because i think theyre trying to figure out the best strategy for being able to accomplish those goals without igniting a larger conflict in the world. So where do we fit in . Im glad to see that tony blinken has been in the middle east, talks with egypt, talks with leaders of the west bank. Talks with saudi arabia. Im glad the president is going. And hes not only going to meet with netanyahu and the Israeli Cabinet but hes going to go to egypt to see if they can open up a passage to get people out of gaza, out of the south of gaza. So its really, really difficult, chris. Because you have hezbollah with sophisticated weapons up in the north so israel is trying to do what theyre trying to do. Everybody knows, except a handful, that israel has to act, they have to be tough, and they have to win. But the question is, how do you get that done in an effective way . Not only using Special Forces but also your regular military . Its a real challenge and the United States of america, i guarantee you, that our Intelligence Community is helping them, jsoc, joint special Operations Command i dont know this but i assume theyre there. Theres a lot of u. S. Intelligence. Were moving the carriers there to send the message but we cant have the House Of Representatives walk in circles. I say if jordan cant get the votes withdraw, empower mchenry, involve some democrats and call it a day. I want to bring in David Drucker also. If hes going to have a chance, jim jordan to succeed on a subsequent ballot you have to first find out why the 20 people who voted against him did vote the way they did. Tell me what your impressions are of 20 folks saying no, not jim jordan. At least not now. Often it gets harder on the second or third ballot. Once you crossed the rubicon it gets more comfortable. Kevin mccarthy experienced that earlier this year. I think a lot of whats going on here, chris, is the fact that there are members of the republican conference that believe they have been following the rules but that a significant minority has chosen not to follow the rules and they dont want to empower them. Normally its and what im referring to here, just to be clear is Kevin Mccarthy is nominated for speaker last fall with 188 votes so not unanimous but real, real close. You then have a number of republicans who refuse to honor that vote. When it comes to a speaker vote, the nominee is supposed to go to the floor with the support of the conference. So the conference then Ousts Mccarthy last week when eight members pulled a motion to vacate. They nominate somebody else and again a significant minority chooses not to honor the rules and decides to elevate the guy who finished second. And so all of this frustration builds up, including a lot of strong arming over the weekend with threats and threats by Conservative Media you need to get in line. And i believe one of the reasons it was successful to the extent that it was yesterday as members started to support jordan is because the debate became about frustrated republicans saying they might be willing to work with democrats. Once this became not just a disagreement about who the republican speaker should be but a negotiation with democrats that was a hard messaging war for republicans in red districts to win. But looking at how this vote finished up, it tells me, the frustration many republicans have over constantly having to swallow a consistent majority who doesnt want to swallow the rules, theyre reaching their limit with that. These are the republicans that normally want to govern. Theyre normally willing to accept this sort of thing because thats just who they are. Theyre not theyre not insurgents by nature but everybody has their limit and i think thats what republicans might be experiencing here. I also want to bring in former republican Congressman Carlos Car Bellow of florida and david is right, this is a significant number of republicans whoever said no to voting for jim jordan. Youve been in those conversations. We dont know why each and every one of them voted the way they did. So the question is, when youre in this those conversations, when youve heard those conversations, whats going on right now and between now and whenever it is that they come out of the recess . Chris, i think its remarkable that jim jordan had all weekend to whip members to call members to convince members the house hasnt had a speaker for two weeks so this is really starting to build the pressure on a lot of members and yet in this first ballot he had 20 gop defections. Thats a big number. Thats more than Kevin Mccarthy had in his first ballot and its more than the eight members that worked together to Depose Mccarthy a couple of weeks ago. So for the overwhelming majority of the members of the House Of Representatives republican conference, they look back and say Kevin Mccarthy is the candidate for speaker that most unites House Republicans. Its not unanimous support but certainly a lot more than jordan and scalise. Its also important to take into account a lot of people who voted for jordan today dont actually want him to be speaker. These are the same people who three days ago in a secret ballot vote voted against him, 55 republicans. Its not that they voted for someone else, they said they would not support jim jordan on the house floor. Of course, pressure builds. Theres political pressure and many of them have fallen in line. But jim jordan is probably the weakest candidate for speaker that republicans have put forward. Kevin mccarthy ended up losing eight votes and got deposed. Scalise would have likely fared better than jordan on the floor. I dont think he would have gotten a majority. But a lot of the members are starting to look back and say why did he get rid of Kevin Mccarthy . Whats the point of this exercise . Everyone else is weaker or less than Kevin Mccarthy. So i think, if this continues, chris, youre going to see a movement to bring back Kevin Mccarthy or to empower Patrick Mchenry, and that is an outcome that most members of the House Republican conference would prefer over having jim jordan as their speaker. Carlos curbelo, David Drucker, thanks to everyone who helped us get through this. Up next, President Biden is headed to israel today. The stakes so high as he makes his second forray to an active war zone this year. Youre watching Chris Jansing reports only on msnbc. Reports only on msnbc are you tired of clean clothes that just dont smell clean . Downy unstopables inwash Scent Boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh waaaay longer than detergent alone. If you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have Downy Unstopables inwash Scent Boosters. Power e trades easytouse tools, like dynamic charting and riskreward analysis help make trading feel effortless. 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We are back with Breaking News our Richard Engel has new reporting about the hostages being held by hamas and the demands from the terrorists to release them. I want to bring in nbcs Richard Engel. What can you tell us, richard . Reporter so yesterday a the top spokesman for the military wing of hamas made an offer, a dangle. He said that the group is willing to hand over all foreign hostages, if the air strikes well, what he said specifically is, he said they were willing to hand over all foreign hostages if the conditions on the field are right. If the conditions are appropriate. So i spoke to, a short while ago, a Senior Hamas Official Inside Gaza and asked for clarification. I said, are you still willing to release foreign hostages and what do you mean you would do it if the field conditions are right . He said that not only are they willing to release all foreign hostages, meaning even israelis who have second passports but also all israeli civilians if the bombing stops. He said all the civilian hostages, israeli and foreigner could be released in one hour that it would be easy. I pressed him on it, saying why dont you just release them now if you want to release the hostages, take them to the border of gaza and let them go. Take them to a safe place, put them in a car and let them go. He said it was impossible, he said it was impossible because israel was bombing everywhere because there was no safe place. I told him i didnt believe him, that didnt seem logical. Take them to Southern Gaza where theres work establishing a safe zone he said you dont understand whats going on in gaza, there is no safe place. After i pressed him further he accused many e me of trying to negotiate instead of report. I said im reporting here, there are viewers here, they want to know what are your conditions why not just release them now if youre saying you hav