Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240703

Continue to prepare for road Ground Offensive. And former Trump Attorney sydney powell pleads guilty in georgia. What happened in court today and what it means for the case against the former president. And the stalemate in Congress Goes on. It has been over two weeks since the house had a speaker, and republicans are still scrambling to find leadership. What happens now, as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. Good evening, once again, im Stephanie Ruhle live from Msnbc Headquarters at 30 rock center. We begin this evening with President Bidens very clear message to the nation about wars and both israel and ukraine. And why he believes support for both countries right now is essential. This evening, President Biden spoke from the oval office less than 24 hours after returning from tel aviv. He made the case for American Military and moral support, describing both conflicts as battles for survival as well as freedom. Hamas and putin represent different threats, but they share this in common. They both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy, completely annihilated. When terrorists dont pay a price for their terror, when dictators dont pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. They keep going. And the cost and the threats to america in the world keep rising. President bidens message comes as israel continues its air campaign against hamas amid concerns about a wider war. We get more from Nbcs Richard Engel on the ground. There are new signs israels long anticipated ground operation into gaza could be coming. But israels Defense Minister telling troops they would soon seek gaza from the inside. And the United States is making sure israel is ready for it, sending a new shipment of armored vehicles. For now, israel is only attacking gaza from afar. Retaliation against hamas for its massive Terror Attack that killed 1400 israelis. This is not merely our battle. Its the battle of the entire civilized world. A Ground Invasion could spark a wider war across the middle east and drawn in the United States. Its already happening. With hezbollah intensifying attacks on Israeli Forces from lebanon, syrian militias yesterday targeting american troops in iraq and syria. And late today, the pentagon saying the uss carney shot down three Cruise Missiles and drones launched by Houthi Rebels in yemen, potentially headed towards israel. All the militias on the attack now have one thing in common, they are backed by iran. In gaza, the humanitarian crisis for the 2. 3 Million People is growing. Israeli airstrikes have flattened entire neighborhoods. With so many injured, gazis hospitals are inundated and running out of fuel and bandages, facing power outages, some operations are done using the light of cell phones. In southern gaza, multiple witnesses and survivors tell us and israeli strike in khan yunis Hit A Three Story Home where dozens of palestinians were taking shelter. The wounded, more than 50 were taken to a nearby hospital, including many children. A girl is carried in motionless, but shes alive and given era. A boy screams for his daddy. A girl cries for her mom. These pictures were taken by our crew in gaza today. They are not propaganda for hamas or anyone else. This man told us the strike killed his wife, children, sister in law, and her children. They said the south was safe, he says. [crowd chanting] anger in the muslim world is building against israel and the United States. The u. S. State department issuing a Worldwide Travel alert to americans, advising u. S. Citizens overseas to exercise increased caution. As israel prepares for a possible invasion of gaza, families of the hostages are fearing their loved ones will be an even more danger. Nbcs lester holt has that. Today, the Israeli Military upped the number of those believed held hostage by hamas in gaza to 203. That number does not include Aunt Carmella and the granddaughter annoy a, who kidnapped by hamas terrorists, have now been confirmed dead. Their bodies found inside gaza. Three other Family Members are still missing, including 12 year old eras, captured on Video Being Led away during the attacks. We dont want any other family to have their heart shattered the way that hours are. We dont want any more suffering. We know right now that hamas is worse than i. S. I. S. Carmelo was 80, granddaughter was 12. Thats noise mom singing to her post to just last month. Tell me about her. She had autism. She was sensitive to light and sound and noise. And she loved harry potter. She dressed up like harry potter. She and her grandmother were deeply connected and i think, if there is any solace right now, its to know that they are together. I think we all need a deep breath after that one. So lets get right to it and bring in my colleague alison barber, who is in tel aviv right now. Alison, again, thank you for being there. It is just after six a. M. You have been working around the clock for over a week you have been there. And every day, ive asked the same question. How much closer are we to this possible Ground Offensive into gaza . At this point, is it a when, or is it enough . Its still seems to be a matter of when. Look, we have spent the majority of our time here, almost two weeks now, at the Israel Gaza Border. We were there this morning, we were there last night and the night before. What we have seen for days and days is this massive Military Buildup along the border. There are no civilians really in the areas where we have been along the Israel Gaza Border anymore on the israeli side. Theyve all left. But there are a lot of troops, there are a lot of military tanks, a lot of military aircraft, military helicopters, drones, all of it at the border in a position to move in as soon as the green light is given. Weve been talking about the Ground Offensive been imminent because thats what israeli officials and military leaders have been saying for so long. They have said repeatedly weve been very clear about our next plan and some of them have even argued that they have done this when most states they say would not have advertised what theyre going to do next because theyre trying to give people in gaza chance to evacuate south. Then, a couple of days ago, we heard them back away from some of that language with the idf, who said [inaudible] it might be different than what you expect. But fast forward to today and we saw a Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visiting with troops along the Israel Gaza Border. We also saw israels Defense Minister go and meet with Infantry Troops along the border, and his language today, incredibly strong. He told those troops that they need to annihilate hamas. He told them to be prepared that this is going to be a long effort, and he told them, you have seen gaza from the outside. Soon, you will see it from the inside. It feels like i know we have been saying that is eminent for days, because that is the language that we have been hearing from Israeli Forces. Its what everything on the ground suggests. But we havent seen it happen just yet. And eminent, i think were realizing in war could be minutes, it could be hours, it could be war but the language we heard today at the border, telling israeli Infantry Troops that they will soon see gaza from the inside. It does seem, stephanie, that it is just a question of when. And the equipment, the people, the forces, its all certainly in place to launch that aggressive Ground Assault into Northern Gaza when the greenlight is given. Stephanie . Alison, thank you so much, i appreciate you joining us. With that, lets bring in our lead off panel tonight. Peter baker is here, chief White House Correspondent for the new york times. Michael or, and former israel ambassador to the u. S. And my colleague engulf friend Martin Fletcher, former nbc correspondent. He spent over 30 years reporting for nbc. He has won almost every single television award, including five emmys. Michael, i want to start with the president speech. What was your thought . And how do you thinks remarks will go over in israel . They went over very well, stephanie. As they were with his initial speech a week ago. His visit to israel, a day from yesterday, all of his words were deeply appreciated here and highly regarded. Tonight was interesting because, for the first time, he made a very direct connection between russias invasion of ukraine and hamas attack on israel. And he stressed the connection between them, not just the fact that ukraine and israel our fellow democracys been invaded by totalitarian and often in human forces. But also, both the connection between iran and ukraine and israel is the iranian connection. Iran is back in the russian invasion. Its helping to arm the russian army with drones and missiles. And iran, of course, the principal backer of hamas, and it is the owner, literally, of palestine islamic jihad. Martin, what stuck out to you in the president s remarks and michael gave us how its going to be received in israel. What do you think about the rest of the middle east . What struck me, stephanie, i mediately, was among the opening words of President Biden, when he called this an Inflection Point in history. And i think it really is. This is really on the edge of the abyss. The question of whether the conflict can spillover, as richard was mentioning his report, its already spilling over in a minor way, relatively minor way. The potential for a spreading disaster, its huge. President biden speech well received, as mike pointed out in israel, will be fairly poorly received in the rest of the middle east. Weve been seeing demonstrations all over the place in beirut capitals all over. Thats going to get worse. Thats going to get worse. Peter, you said that the speech was unlike any other Oval Office Speech you can remember because of all the ground he covered. What were your big takeaways . I think we just talked about him linking to seemingly disparate foreign crises and trying to find the through line. Obviously, russias invasion of ukraine, and hamass attack on israel have very different contexts, very different details in the specifics. But he is making the argument that they are of the same sort of qualities. Hes using his own axis of evil, if you will, even though he doesnt use the phrase that george w. Bush popularized. Iran is not the only connection, in his view. Dictatorship and terrorism, hes saying, are essential very similar forces in the world today, both at odds with democracies like the United States and israel. And both forces to be confronted, as hes arguing to the american people. His challenge at home, which is different than his challenge in the region, is to convince the American Public that its very tired of for an engagement after 20 some years following 9 11 in the wars in iraq and afghanistan. Hes making the case that its worth the investment of money, saying its not going to put american troops in harms way, but hes going to continue to fund and pay for the ukrainians and israelis fighting these forces against them. Its a selling job he needs to make, particularly his own party in some ways, but also with some on the hard right and the other party. Peter, you think of that aid hes asking for gets approved . Well, i think theyve come up with what seems to be an Elegances Lucian around a political mess, right . Ukraine aid that he had asked for earlier in the summer of god in the house, because a number of concern republicans refused to go along with. Then of course, there is no House Speaker right now. Without a House Speaker. The way around it is by 20 nip with this money for israel, which has a great deal of support on both sides of the aisle. And of adding Border Protection money, which is what a lot of hard or concerns have been asking for. As well as money for taiwan. This should, in theory, be enough to bring enough majorities to both parties and both houses along. Its a lot of money. 105 Billion Dollars hes asking the american taxpayers for. But there for a number of priorities that appeal to a lot of different sections of congress. If they can get a speaker, they can get a house thats working again, in theory, you ought to be able to see bipartisan support both of these measures. Ambassador, i want to talk on about what martin brought up, the anger across the region outside of israel. What is your assessment of it, because it only seems to be getting worse . It certainly getting worse. But you have to distinguish, stephanie, between popular opinion and government opinion. After more than a decade of american withdrawal from conflicts, not just in the middle east, but around the world, america is back. And allied countries, allied governments in the world, not just in the middle east, we can say governments like germany, south korea, japan, will be very happy to hear the speech. And so well pro american, pro western governments in the middle east. They may be facing rising domestic opposition to the United States, but their rulers, not democracies, their rulers will be welcoming a return of america. And i think one of the great distinctions between ukraine situation and what is transpiring here in israel and the middle east is that the United States has been very cautious not to be involved directly militarily in ukraine, and the United States is directly involved militarily here, not just by the presence of those two large naval groups, but by the firing of anti missile battery a destroyer In The Red Sea that took down three rockets fired by the Houthi Rebels in yemen backed by iran. America is already engaged here, and the United States has put very, very large assets. These are two aircraft carriers. Each one has about 75 planes on it. As well as other advanced systems like Tomahawk Missiles and anti rocket systems. Theyre already here. And i think theyre here not just for demonstration. Theyre here in case the war between israel and hamas expands between one in israel, hezbollah, and iran. , lets talk about the thats the people. Politics, the border. I want to talk with the i want to talk about hostages, martin the politics. We we were airing a bit are airing a little earlier and earlier Lester Holt Lester Holt who we spoke to last week six Family Members held hostage. She learned in the last few days Senior Citizen carmella and a young girl, 12 years old, not a died. How are they even getting that information about hostages, right, if theyre in gaza, if theyve been captured, how are they getting updates . Who is it from . Im not sure. The bottom line is theyre using it for psychological warfare. And its working. And its working. The whole country is involved, and let me just say this, which are only found out today. We talk about six degrees of separation. Israels a tiny country with one or two degrees of separation. So i just found out today that two of my wifes family are among the hostages. Im so sorry. So, we know that we found out about them. As they were told to kill the and to use the rest as human shields. So this is the very personal thing. That by the, way the americans battle. Sorry to bring this on you but i just found out that they ran out with evidence to annoy them. Theyre americans. They were visiting their grandmother for their 85th birthday. And they were last seen with their hands ties. Being dragged away by the hamas terrorists. So its personal. It is real. And nobody is really confident if its possible to get them back alive, of course everyone is hoping that the United States is doing everything they can with intelligence resources, whatever other resources they can bring to bear. Israel says its hard to be the number one priority. But actually, the bottom line is that theyre the number two priority. The number one priority is to go into gaza as Prime Minister netanyahu said to kill the mass leadership, and to destroy hamas. But the hostages are in the way. So this is really, rather a once intuition. Then, when hamas says things like were treating these hostages like our guest, and martin tells us the messages, we kill the ones that are difficult, those are two, very very different messages. How are these families getting this information . Where are they learning it from if these people are being held captive . First of all, peter im so sorry for your familys loss. Thats terrible, its terrible news. Ive been involved with visiting families every day of the hostages and this is what i know. Of the 200 and, to 203 hospital that israel knows about its because theres some kind of evidence, pictures were taken of them. The assumption is that the number is actually larger. Significantly larger. Not all the hostages are on the hands of hamas. Some are in the hands of the palestine islamic jihad. Some of them are in the hands of families. When the terrace broke through our defenses in the south, hundreds, Maybe Thousands Of Gazans followed through with them. There were civilians but they took part in the massacres. And they also captured israelis. And then they will turn around and sell these hostages to hamas or to palestine islamic jihad. So the only way we know about them is that somebody took a picture of them at some point. And in one rare case, i want to visit Karen Shanley the other day, her daughter mia was captured, vaulted 203 hostages, the next day, hamas published a video of her daughter, mia. Who suffers from a number of elements. Serious ailments. She had been shot in the arm, and she claims she had been treated well. The video was old, unfortunately. It was from the same day. But my assumption was that this video was published because mia is a dual of Israeli French national. And there was some type of gesture, some type of message to the french. Beyond that, we dont know anything. The parents dont know anything. I visited the family, their daughter lonnie has actually not been found at all. They know nothing about her whereabouts, she has not been identified among the dead. Well over as many as 200 dead have not been identified yet. Because they were so severely mutilated and bird by hamas. The situation is unbearable, its unbearable as martin has shown. These poor families, its excruciating. Unbearable is the only word for word. Peter baker, ambassador michael warren. Martin fletcher. And martin, i am so sorry to you and your wife. When we come backwee gonna talk about politics. And maybe a little law. Former trump lawyer, sydney powell, pleading guilty in the Georgia Election interference case. Our friend, joyce vance who predicted this outcome is here to break down what it means for the former president and the other defendants, and later another day goes by and still there is no speaker of the house after backup landfills. Charlie dent and tina miller are here on the latest round of republican chaos. 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How do you plead to five counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with intellectual duties and one count of conspiracy to create criminal trespass . How do you plead to the six counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with performance of Election Duties . Guilty. Sounds like when she releases the kraken, its going to be on trump. Former Trump Attorney, sydney powell pleaded guilty. Thats right, guilty with the g today in the Georgia Election interference cas as part of a plea deal with prosecutors. That means she could testify against the former president , paul is one of his lawyers of course after the 2020 election, she publicly and repeatedly pushed false Conspiracy Theories about the result. Powell agreed to six years of probation around 9000 bucks in fines and she will submit an Apology Letter to the citizens of georgia. Back with me tonight to discuss, former u. S. Attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. Joyce, its extraordinary, my team just said to me after a very difficult segment covering the war, they said, its okay we have a much Lighter Segment coming up next. And to think, a Lighter Segment this about the former president and his former lawyer and a guilty plea. That doesnt seem right in all when you think about the grand scope of things. What were your takeaways . Because we need to tell our audience, you predicted that she would turn in a plea. I dont think i could take too much credit, steph. Because this seems like a fairly obvious decision for paul. She is a lawyer, she knows what the inside of a prison looks like. And she was facing as much as 5 to 20 years of custody in georgia with very strong evidence against her, and what made it worse was that the codefendant who has already pled guilty, was involved with her in the county voting intrusions. So he wouldve likely testified as her adding just even more reason for her to consider this plea. Its an interesting situation how the prosecutions look, there was a lot of criticism early on of fani willis for indicting so many people in one conspiracy. But she knew that the trajectory in these cases was that as to get close to trial people have a much more realistic read on the evidence and defendants begin to plead guilty and cooperate. Amazing, it was just three weeks ago, she was very publicly saying, she did absolutely nothing. In order for her to get a deal like this from the government, did she have to give them Something Big . I think so, this is a very good deal, she pleads guilty to Misdemeanor Charges only, she avoids going to prison. This is the sort of deal that you dont just hand out like a party favor. And so its just to me that powell will be testifying against trump. We know that she was in the room with him, most notably during this December 18th Meeting in the oval office where she walks in and pedals her crazy story about foreign interference in the election. And offers herself up as someone who could become a special counsel and be involved in the military, seizing Voting Machines after a National Emergency has declared. And, trump strangely enough doesnt reject her crazy nonsense ideas out of hands, but actually is considering them to the or a members in the White House Counsels Office who were present. So this seems like something she could do along with testimony against some of the other defendants. We also learned today that can chesbrough rejected a plea deal. You wrote in an msn the that theres likely only a few other plea deals to go around. Does sydney powell feel motivate to some of these other defendants to get on board and cut a deal while they still can . Right, i think it does. This is an interesting situation because the charges are so wide ranging. And prosecutors will look for key witnesses on each of the points that are important to them. They will also look for cooperating testimony, there likely be many more pleas in this case. But the sorts of deals, no felony charges, no prison time will go to the people who have the most to offer. Chance burrows involved in a different part of this conspiracy. Hes the author of the memos that provide the path for failing to certify the election on january six. Fortunately, his plan fills. But he is involved with trump again in a very close way. And, importantly this week, judge ruled that all of these memos could come into evidence that all the chesebro claims there were Attorney Client privilege information that the judge would commit the prosecution to offer them because of the crime fraud exception. Thats terrible news for chesebro ice a speck team may be reconsidering what their he wants to engage in negotiations with fani willis to. What about the news for trump . If youre his attorney how concerned are you tonight versus 24 hours ago before the sydney powell plea deal . Well steve sat out trumps lawyer put out as good as a face on this news as he possibly could. He said he was happy to hear about pauls testimony. He expected that it would fully exonerate his client. And to be fair, we dont know whats sidney pauls testimony will be. Perhaps you will exonerate trump. Although the type of deal she has adjusted that her evidence is valuable to prosecutors as opposed to getting their case. Trumps lawyers have to be very nervous about What Sydney Powell was going to say. But also about the next domino to fall. Who else will end up cooperating before their client goes to trial . Joyce vance, maybe her testimony will exonerate trump. Maybe not. Good to see you, thank you for joining us. When we come back, between failed votes, Shouting Matches and threats to quit the speaker race is nowlacking in the drama department. And im talking only about republicans. Our next two guests have a lot to say about this. When the 11th hour continues. 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[inaudible] i said that i thought that have a speaker like it was a bad idea. I think that republicans ought to state our conference before we elect a speaker. I think we have a lot of great folks, im supporting jim jordan. And i have to guest with a lot to say. Former republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania and tim miller. A contributor to the bulwark and the former Communications Director for jeff bush. Tim, you know, normally im a sucker for your pinto beans and pearls. But tonight, charlie dent is working a Pocket Square and tie it a rule that fell straight out of a ralph lauren ad. So he might actually get this whole entire segment. Charlie, you worked with these men. And they were republicans just like you. Why cant they get it together . And by the way Kevin Mccarthys got tough words against matt gaetz, now. Where was he six months ago . Well what youre witnessing is the House Republican conference is deeply fractured. And what the moments of her and a husband for those hardliners, has really bid to use their small numbers that has leveraged to basically get their way. And what has happened, and i think the real story about jim jordans failure to get 217 votes is that pragmatic government oriented members has said enough. There is a save attack, they said, okay we have that leverage to. And you know they watched jim jordan, for example, obstruct their spending bills over the years. Trying to undermine that. And now jim jordan has come to that and said, boy, you know i. D. d your hope to become speaker . And they said no there are people who will serve our interest for better. And these are people who are not the type of team players. These are senior appropriators. In the appropriation committee. A former chief deputy whip. These are people who are completely in line most of the time. And theyre saying no. So now you have this division where you have to hardliners who cant support anyone thats reasonable. And no these moderate pragmatic members who are not gonna support our thinking there to extreme. And what i suspect, at some point the House Republicans are going to have to engage to help him get out of this mess. They might have to put together a coalition to elect a speaker. Because there sure is all going to name a team jeffrey support, On November 17th of from the government. And then again to find it on a longer term basis come december. So its a hell of a mess. Charlie, if they do that, im going to invite you to come to this set and allow you to do a victory lap, i told you so dance all around this desk. Because you suggested it, the very first night and we all told you to get out of town. And you may have been right all along. Tim, what is jim jordan doing . He doesnt have the votes . Well hes spoken to the rest of the folks supporting him and i largely agree with what congressman dent said over there, and by the way my mother would also prefer if i was dressing like him on tv so that makes three of you. I largely agree with what he said with one exception which is that the governing win of the Republican Party is in that big. Jim jordan is a lunatic that was one of the Chief Lieutenant for donald trump sent over to throw the election, and he got 200 votes to be the speaker of the house so thats pretty concerning. Im happy that 20 people held the line on this, im happy theres 20 of whatever you want to call, it pragmatic governing republicans that said no to this. I thought that was encouraging, but i think that jim jordan thinks that he can brown be done because lets be honest, the republicans have voted to donald trump. Performances are the i think the other reason why he is going back is because they dont have any other options. And i think that goes to what Congressman Ben said. Nobody else can get to 17. So they dont know what else did you. And i do think its a vital option to work with democrats, and i think when hes on the phone with some of his colleagues, he goes to speaker bacon. Lets do some west wing politics and have don bacon, or going to work with Hakeem Jeffrey on a Coalition Government. To, me i also think that seems like the most realistic shook solution right now. Charlie, what about voters . Sometimes theres going to be political blowback for these lawmakers . I mean that the people of florida watch night gaetz create this big silly show and think, right on brother . This works for me . Did the people of ohio love the circus that jim jordan is leading . Well i suspect the voters that matt gaetzs district in jordans district are not going to punish them for their conduct in these matters. The problem is gonna be the 17 republicans who represent joe biden districts. This looks terrible. They all know it. This airing of their dirty laundry, to perform the basics of governance, particularly when he allies are in support right now, these are the folks who will pay the price. Thats always the case. These members in these very safe districts, they play a base politics. They dont really need to Pay Attention to these swing voters but for the 17 members it is a big deal. And frankly this puts the House Republican majority at great risk, already in trouble because the redistricting is down south. But right, not this further adds to their challenges. A lot to get affect the election, that i think this could have a real impact. There has been some talk of empowering Patrick Mchenry as the speaker. He had endorsements from, in theory, who you would think to be some of the all powerful republicans. Former speaker, john boehner, new england. Republicans abandon that and a hot second. What does that tell you, tim, about who runs this party and this notion that weve got to get back to that traditional Republican Party, theyre making a comeback . Yes. No. Its the maga side that controls the party right now. And maybe not enough to get jim jordan as bigger. But certainly enough to give let me tell you, the rightwing media, the maga podcasting world, the daily winner and bannons war room and those guys they were licking their chops for a Coalition Government with Patrick Mchenry getting votes for and you had the republicans at the house trying to do that. There was going to be primaries left and right. And you, know thats the one thing that scares those city guys in congress. And i dont think Patrick Mchenry wanted. That and i dont think that a lot of the more maga jason if you will members wanted. It because they were worried about what might happen in a primary if they went along with that. And i think that left him with no option there to go with mchenry. The republican podcasting way. Im pretty sure theyre not in that position to do lawmakers. Gentlemen, thank you both for being here. I appreciate it. When we come back, dozens of bigbusinesses are taking a big stand against the hamas Terror Attacks on israel. Were gonna get into that when the 11th hour continues. Ou hr continues. Mid 30s, couple of kids, recently went through a divorce. She had a lot of questions when she came in. I watched my mother go through being a single mom. At the end of the day, my mom raised three children, including myself. And so once the client knew that she was heard. We were able to help her move forward. Your client wont care how much you know until they know how much you care. My name is marie. Im 49 years old and im a business owner. I own a lemonade and Ice Cream Shop in florida, so i can feel and see that my lines have gotten deeper just from a year out in the sun. Im still marie and i got botox® cosmetic. I did not want a dramatic change. 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Connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. Lets find the right investments for your goals okay, great. J. P. Morgan wealth management. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. With one small pill, biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to undetectable and stay there whether youre just starting or replacing your current treatment. Research shows that taking hiv treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting hiv through sex. Serious side effects can occur, including Kidney Problems and kidney failure. Rare, lifethreatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. Do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. 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Lawford winds did extra rescinded offered to a top and why you lost it this month after blip israel for the blood violence october 7th. The law firm davis pope pulled three more offered to Harvard Students for inciting a similar statement. Now a Tenured Professor has wanted an oped for the journal written do not hire my antisemitic students. Free speech does not mean theres no consequences for free speech. Stephen sullivan said he considers any justification of a massive texan anti there is a professional setting, these are people who are to be trained as lawyers, they should not be going out as lawyers if theyre advocating the murder and justifying the murder of innocent people. One Berkeley Student group mentioned at the oped, characterize the october 7th attack as resistance to apartheid. In the statement to nbc news, the group calls it a smear that wrongly conflates activism with that c17. Some subs did, its an affiliated with the group say they are concerned about the opeds presence. I think, regardless of which side you support, i dont know that professor should be encouraging it for this way. Kenneth stern runs the center study of hate. When you start Drawing Lines and say what speech is permitted and what speech is, it thats a horrible thing in society in general. Tonight, a debate over free speech. And whether a Student Public Stance on the controversial topics would cripple a career before it even begins. I want to forget your professor Jeffrey Simon failed, hes been tracking Major Companies can debate hamass brutal Terrorist Attack for fortune by concede. Jeffrey, especially from the last couple of years, we talk a lot about how Business Leaders are perfect to sit on the sidelines when it involves divisive topics. But this horrible Terror Attack is getting a much different reaction. What did your Research Find . I am so glad you said that. Because we do see a number of said it in the media are saying that ceos are slow to respond, that is just not the case. As we saw, after george floyd the concerns for Racial Justice and looking at gender parity issues, gun safety issues, the ceos have been consistently on the front lighted obviously with the withdraw from ukraine who had a lot to do working with the what does it 200 firms that pulled out. Theres nothing like that in World History and we have seen ceos act as World Leaders and society at their the most trusted voices in society. And it is situation, stephanie, whats remarkable is, as you know i like to work very closely with ukrainian exits. At this point, the russian exit on the ukraine invasion, we only had perhaps, maybe 35, 40 companies, ten, 12 days after the invasion. And now we have chartered over 130 Companies Already that have taken very strong stance. And it is going. Its a snowball effect. And its quite impressive. At least two major law firms have already pulled job offers from students who criticize israel after hamass attack. What are you seeing and hear about that i feel . You would think id be Out Of My Mind to comment on that, right now we have a big window here at my office. And this is a very sensitive topic. But ive got to take it on. Go ahead. And that is Freedom Of Speech is not absolute. It is not absolute in the town square, its not absolute in a public university, its not absolute at a private university. Theres always a responsibility that comes with it. But in particular, there is accountability. What happened and a lot of the situations, we had students that were hiding under the anonymous identity of some student groups. Without actually being accountable. And that was a lot of the initial controversy a few days ago. They shouldnt even be revealed. But they should be. We know the klan that started to unravel in part only because 1845 new york started a cascade of other states. And they said we had to unmask the klatt. At all the court stood behind. That yes there was some it imitation for classified four be accountable. But the courts all said, that was a price you had to pay to help stop the much worse Coercion Intimidation and violence that was happening with people. Heat speech can be tolerated. No other group on campus would tolerate this lack of accountability. And you should be entitled to the same. Some people are saying that threatening students employment is a step too far. But theres also its of examples of students, eddie what has to be careful of their conduct outside of work or their social media footprint. Because they know employers, college admissions, theyre all watching students conduct before they enter the workplace. So wouldnt this be normal for how businesses conduct themselves when they look at potential candidates . A track record matters. Accountability matters. Youre exactly. Right now as it turns out, there may be some students and first year signed on for affinity, group they dont realize what theyve gotten into, and somebodys hijacked an organization. And they didnt even realize that their name was a part of. It and have these trucks going around, in Harvard Square and other places where students were innocently included on list that they didnt realize they were on. And then fine. Once revealed, they could reduce the valid and say didnt represent them. They should be cleared. And nobody should be defamed if its false. And they should state that. They should be clinched for. It but if they actually have these hateful statements that theyre supporting genocide like professor Steve Solomon like from all other places, berkeley, the Berkeley Free speech folders remind us that free speech is not unlimited. As that professor points out, people who are saying that chopping off the heads of 50 in fans, in front of their parents, the mass raids of these young women being dragged by gaza, and these parents, the Martin Fletcher piece you just had on beforehand. Im still turned off from the very top opening segment to head on the show. Its that you see the abuse of these grandparents and grandchildren together that are torched. That is not acceptable. To say that somehow, these innocent civilians are responsible for it. And, then as weve had on many campuses, people say, these are settlers. Settlers are not civilians. And nodules are settlers. And therefore they should suffer genocide, which is the hamas statement. Thats not right. Hamas, nobody watching this show can name a arab leader that supports hamas. Iran is not arab. I did a lot of work and we became the Abraham Accords and 1990s. Working with arab leaders, the governmental leaders from you e, from morocco, and elsewhere. And the biggest probably all saw what has happened in gaza, which is hamas took it over, they drove out the palestinian authorities and israel left. Israel was not running gossip which was self administered by this Terrorist Group and nobody wanted to do their best there. So whats really important is that the facts get out there. The facts get out there. Jeffrey, thank you. There are no civilians that should be suffering, the israeli civilians, all of those people in gaza, the people in the hospital, the people who tried to flee south at that have been hurt on their way we dont want to hear of any civilians who are suffering and unfortunately so many are right now. So we signed off tonight with a deep breath. And seeing a prayer for them all. Jeffrey, thank you for being here. And on that very serious note i wish you all a good night. From all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. Ill see you at the end of tonight. End of tonight. 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