Conflict of interest but did find an appearance of inproprietary as a result of their relationship. As the judge wrote, quote, whether this case ends in convictions, acquittals or something in between, the result should be one that instills confidence in the process. He went on to say any distractions that detract from these goals if remedial under law should be proportionately addressed. More to talk to us about this is blayne alexander, the first to report on the decision. Katy phang, tomorrow hallerman, Senior Reporter for the journal of constitution, and joyce vance former u. S. Attorney, who is now the cohost of the sisters in law podcast. Blayne you were the first one to break this and give us the details of the decision. What are some of the main points in this 23point ruling . Well, i think the judges tone stands out to me. You laid out the construction of this ruling which is that fani willis and her office can stay on the case but nathan wade has to go. In saying that, its important to note that the judge doesnt hesitate to take fani willis to task. Pointing out that she made some dels decisions that one would call questionable along the way and really calls that out. I want to point you to one page that stood out to me, page 9 where basically he said this finding is by no means an i said indication that the court condones this tremendous lapse in judgment or the unprofessional manner of the das testimony. So its important that he points back to that two hour testimony that all of us watched from fani willis where she got on the stand, called the motion to dismiss said it was filled with lies. But the question now is, whats going to happen Going Forward . I reached out to the das Office A Number of times to see if theyre going to comment on this. But in speaking with people following this closely, as one person told me, it seems like a simple solution. Its 9 45, if i were in fani willis seat nathan wade would be gone by 10 30 and move and put this entire thing behind us. Even though the legal part is buttoned up, there are ways this has bled over, theres a state Senate Committee looking into this and is planning to subpoena fani willis in the weeks to come. So even the shadow is cast over this case still for some time to come. Joyce, what stood out to you most from the judges decision today . Well, i think to the point blayne was making. The real impact of this decision is a win for the das office. Fani Willis Office gets to continue with this case. Her entire office wont be recused. But in retrospect. I think we can see that willis could have addressed this easily early on. The judge is concerned less with her relationship with wade and more in how she handled it. Particularly he seems to have been left with a lingering belief they werent completely forthcoming when they testified. So had willis filed a response with the court a couple of days after the defense filed its motion, acknowledged the relationship, said there was nothing improper under georgia law, i think this would have all ended there. Instead, donald trump has certainly benefitted from the delay in this case, now willis will have to separate with wade, something she could have done on the first or second day following this situation coming to light. And its a lot messier than it was. But in essence she told the judge shes ready to go to trial in 30 days. This case essentially ground to a halt for two and a half months. Where do things go from here . At this point were waiting to see if anyone plans to appeal this decision. The das office could do that, although we dont necessarily expect them to and the defendants who joined in together on this motion could also seek to appeal this. President trumps at than team has been very vocal and active on this. And well be watching closely to see if they appeal. Da willis has a decision to make. We are expecting her to let nathan wade go. But should she take the unexpected step and decide she wants to recuse her office then the Prosecuting Office Of Georgia will step in. But now its mostly silence and were waiting to hear back. Joyce, your thoughts on who and how could we see appeal on this . The lead Defense Counsel for trump in this case said we will use all Legal Options available as we continue to fight to end this case. What are those possible appeals . Right. So to tamars point the defendants could appeal this but they have to get a certificate of appealability from judge mcafee first. I noticed something interesting. Earlier judge mcafee dismissed six counts we talked about that. And in that order he said he would give fani willis a certificate of appealability if she wanted to take an appeal. Well, he didnt include that language on this decision on the disqualification issue. He may be willing to grant an certificate of appealability. But its interesting he handled the matters differently. It would have to be in place by the 25th. They have ten days to get that squared away so well know quickly whether there will be an appeal. Ive been lucky ive been able to hear you and watch you on msnbc all morning and have the opportunity to chat with you about the decision. Who do you see as the winner and losers here . The immediate losers are the defense. It was their burden to prove there was a Conflict Of Interest. And judge mcafee dispensed with that at the beginning saying there is no Conflict Of Interest for, quote, bad choices. The winner i would say is going to be da fani willis. But lets not pretend or fool ourselves to think there isnt going to be some consequence to this prosecution. Not only have you spoke about the delay baked in because of the side show but the removal of nathan wade, whether you like it or not, materially impacts this case and the prosecution because hes been through it from ground zero. He helped build this prosecution, led the investigation. Put this investigation through a special purpose grand jury. Took it to a grand jury and got the indictment returned on 19 codefendants. So ive said before, there is institutional and historical knowledge that goes away with nathan wade. All of that being said, though, there are skilled, incredibly competent, Special Prosecutors that remain on this case and they can continue to help fani willis with this case. Just some of the details that were going through on page 15, the judge finds that, quote, the record made at the evidentiary hearing establishes the district attorneys prosecution is encumbered by an appearance of impropriety and impropriety. An excellent question because those of us, including joyce vance, say the law is a Conflict Of Interest. Theres an argument from the defense that an appearance of impropriety is the legal standard. Mcafee did a hybrid decision no conflict but an appearance of impropriety, however he gave a cure. Lets fix this, fani willis and the way you fix it, you either remove yourself and your office or nathan wade withdraws from being a Special Prosecutor. There are ways you hear the judge at one point theres an odor of mon dasty that maintains. And this is the same judge who is obviously in front of the in charge of the donald trump plus 14. Do you see some change or some impact of this on the judge . We always have to talk about the Practical Implications of any decision in any case. And in this particular case. You have a judge telling the lead prosecutor theres a, quote, odor, which is something is rotten in the state of denmark. Stinks about whats happening here. Remember judge mcafee is the common denominator from day one assigned to the case. Hes the judge in front of that that da fani willis is going to have to appear in front of us. As lawyers, our credibility is on the line when we try to make representations. So he didnt call her out directly he said she had bad judgment and there were questions raised about the truthfulness of the timing of that personal relationship. But fani willis has to take a step here and say he called me out on my witness testimony, the way i appeared on the stand i maybe need to recalibrate a little bit and figure out how best to approach the prosecution. If willis removes nathan wade does she pick someone else to replace him . Wouldnt that be a decision under extreme scrutiny . Im thinking any one of you could help me with that question. Yeah, ill jump in, she likely would need to choose a replacement. And to katys point, this is really the person who brings the most knowledge. He has been on it. He led this through the special purpose grand jury. That means he was in the room for the testimony. He led the questioning. So yes, the question does then remains who comes on, picks this case up, and tries to fill the shoes and what does that look like . This is something that came out in the evidentiary hearings. She asked two other people to take on this role, both said no, including the former governor of georgia who said i dont want to live my life with a body guard. We saw the das personal life trotted out in an open courtroom and on live tv for all to see. So you have to wonder who would want to raise their hand and step in a case like this, especially having watched what transpired the last two and a half months. Just again about the issues that the judge brings up, for example, the das he calls it unorthodox decision to make on the record comments, Author Intent about publishing a book about the grand jury investigation, her speech about the Martin Luther king jr. Day. But it was still legally improper he says. The judge on page 20 said she didnt cross the line but it was still improper for the comments made by da fani willis in public. One thing that hasnt been talked about at all on the same page quote a time may have arrived from the state mentioning the case. But that is not the motion presently before the court. What does that mean . Hes inviting the defense to make a motion to gag the state from making comments outside the courtroom. Why is that important . Think about how much is done by the defense in this case, including donald trump talking about this case. A lot of times the court of Public Opinion, a Potential Jury Pool is affected by what they hear about the case. If You Gag Fani Willis and her office from making statements its going to be one sided. Its not like the judge said im going to gag everybody it may be time for the state to be gagged he said. I want to emphasize one thing, jose. Theres discussion about if fani willis and nathan wade had owned up to this earlier on this never would have happened. I have to disagree. You have to remember who brought the motion, a gop operative in Michael Roman his Bread And Butter is maligning reputations. If they had admitted to this, this hearing would have happened anyway because they would have made sure the exposure happened. They wanted to say the entire thing was a political prosecution driven by benefit. Whats important is the judge found there was no improper financial benefit to begin the prosecution and indictment regardless of a personal relationship that didnt color the relationship to do that. Which was the basis for the investigation to begin with. Yes. I think this would have happened anyway because thats the style of whats going on with the gop these days. However the end of the day the proper ruling was made and now we have to see how many more challenges are made to fani willis in this. Blayne youve been following this for months do you think this blemishes the case in any way . This is something that could come back to haunt the da in her reelection battle this fall. She has two different challengers, one to her left and one to her right. As blayne mentioned at the top of the show. The state senate, controlled by republicans here, has gotten involved. They plan to get her to come in and testify. And this is something that donald trump will continue to hammer her on on the Campaign TrailGoing Forward. Looking ahead to this case, this is something that people have commented this could impact a jury moving forward as they get to the Jury Selection of that phase whenever it may be. Its hard to avoid the news here in Fulton County or anywhere in the country. So it might be hard to take away whatever impressions people might have gotten over the last two months here. Thank you all so very much. Well have much more on the breaks story. But next the response from trumps team and well go into the politics of this decision. How the Trump Campaign will move forward with this. Were back in 60 seconds. Youre watching jose diazbalart reports on msnbc. O diazbalart reports on msnbc. Breathing claritin clear is like. is he . Confidently Walking 8 Long Haired Dogs and living as if he doesnt have allergies . Yeah. Fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, like nasal congestion. He hits his mark center stage and is crushed by a baby grand piano. Youre replacing me . Customize and save with liberty bibberty. He doesnt even have a mustache. Only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. 16 past the hour. We are back with our Breaking News, a Fulton County judge overseeing the case against former President Trump and the 16 codefendants should not be disqualified from the case. Joining us is dasha burns in west palm beach, florida and back with us katy fang. Whats the reaction from the trump team today. Im refreshing truth social every moment i get because were wondering when well hear from the former president. We havent heard from him yet but we are hearing from the lead Defense Attorney in the full ton county case, quote, respecting the courts decision we believe the court did not afford significance to the Prosecutorial Misconduct of willis and wade. Goes on to mention the Church Speech that willis gave, calling that inappropriate and saying they will continue to fight this case which should never have been brought in the first case. While this does not give the trump Team Everything they wanted, it does not remove fani willis. It does not dismiss this case. What it does, jose, is open the door for a tactic that they have found successful in the past which is to sow doubt, confusion, muddy the waters when it comes to these cases. And theres some Strong Language in this ruling Admonishing Fani Willis of using phrasing saying the potential untruthfulness here, questioning her judgment saying she had poor judgment in this case. Thats a tactic that even outside of the courtroom, perhaps more importantly for former President Trump in the court of Public Opinion they will use to say hey, look, this is weaponization. This isnt a legitimate case. Despite the fact there was no actual misconduct found, only the appearance of it. But that is enough for the messaging, for the optics and the pr operation of the trump team to take that and to use it on the Campaign Trail, jose. This optics in pr aspect of it. The trial probably not going to take place until after the election. So how much of a priority is this case for the trump teams optics . Well, one thing that i hear from operatives, advisers all the time. While legally its not ideal to have so many cases, so many charges filed against him in all of these different courts, politically they actually believe its better that there are more cases instead of one case that everyone can follow along with every single detail. Because again what it helps to do is muddy the waters, is keep people just a little bit confused, which case are we talking about . What did he do here . What are they accusing him of there . That is helpful to neutralize and disperse the information in a way they can then use to flip the script which theyve been doing on the Campaign Trail and social media and tv to say, hey, this is President Biden trying to imprison his political moments. This is the pr, the messaging, this is not the legal or practical reality necessarily. But its something that tactically is very useful to have, not just this case. Now they can use pull out all of this harsh language from the judge here. They have now multiple places where they can pull from and say, hey, this is a problematic case. So katy, the judge says either fani willis and her team go or nathan wade goes, right . Thats what the decision is here. How does the das office react to this and then like timing . You expect her to Say Something or no . So theres no deadline in this order, which is interesting. You dont say you have to make this decision. We expect nathan wade to withdraw. He was appointed by fani willis that was the crux of the problem. He was appointed by her. He can voluntarily withdraw. He can get off the case. But if youre Fani Willis You Drown out the white noise because theres a lot of it right now. And you have to, i think, decide i suggested maybe you break down the case into buckets that are more quickly and easily triable. You then push for a Status Conference so the judge sets the case for trial. Thats whats needed to happen in the case. The judge noted that fani willis has been pushing for a trial which helped decide there was no actual Conflict Of Interest in this case. If you were getting a financial benefit in your relationship wouldnt you want to drag it out. Wade, by the hour, money, thats the yeah. That youre sharing with willis, your girlfriend. So if im fani willis i say ive been