Good day. Im Chris Jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city, idahos abortion ban in front of the Supreme Court. The justices dealing with the fallout from roe v. Wades appeal. At stakes, what happens if the mother shows up in the er with both her baby and her health in peril . And the dangers for doctors navigating a very tricky legal space while making medical decisions. Plus, tensions easing at one university but expanding across the country with propalestinian demonstrators not backing down. Yale, columbia, nyu, tufts, emerson, uc berkeley now all with encampments. The challenges reverberaing from School Administrations to the white house. And with the new York City Court dark today, how are attorneys in Donald TrumpsHush Money Case spending those limited hours before they have to head back into the courtroom . And how will trumps attorneys push back against david pecker whose testimony has already shown the former president to be a willing participant in a scheme to skew the 2020 election. But we start at the Supreme Court where for the First Time Since they overturned roe v. Wade, justices are being forced to reckon with the byproduct of that decision and rule on the Abortion Issue all over again. At the heart of the arguments, whether idahos near total abortion ban should take precedence over federal law and block abortions. In situations where abortion would help stabilize pregnant patients undergoing a medical crisis. Now, idahos Attorney Says it should. The government disagreed. What idaho is doing is waiting for women to wait and deteriorate and suffer the Lifelong Health consequences with no possible upside for the fetus. It just stacks tragedy upon tragedy. And it cant be the you know, its become transfer is the appropriate standard of care in idaho, but it cant be the right standard of care to force somebody onto a helicopter. This Supreme Court battle over abortion, the second by the way in less than a month is adding new fuel to what was already one of this elections most controversial issues, and whatever the Court Decides could become precedent for the other states that also have bans on the books and the 140 Million People living in them. I want to bring in Yamiche Alcindor outside the Supreme Court, Eugene Daniels is politicos white house correspondent, coauthor of playbook and an msnbc political contributor, and robert gibbs served as White House Press secretary for president obama and is an msnbc political analyst. Yamiche, explain what the court is trying to decide and what we heard in arguments today. Chris, as you said, this is significant abortion case. A federal law that talks about Emergency Care and the fact that if you come into an emergency room, doctors have to stabilize you if you have an Emergency Health condition, whether or not that supersedes idahos law, which says that you are not allowed to have an abortion unless the womans life is in danger and unless she is basically dying in this case is what the federal federal government is saying here. This was a very interesting case to listen to because on the federal government side, you had them essentially saying that idahos law makes it necessary for a woman to be on deaths door in order to get an abortion. That is wrong, that it really should be about her health, and it should not take all the way until she gets so sick that theres no other option but to get an abortion. Idaho was arguing the opposite saying their law is sufficient, saying, in fact, that women can get the care that they need and women can even get care, it doesnt have to be right until theyre at deaths door. I will say in listening to the justices, they sounded like they were leaning towards siing with the government here. You even had someone like Amy Coney Barrett who is seen as a conservative justice, she was asked questions about prosecutorial misconduct and whether or not prosecutors would go after a doctor who said in good faith i gave this person an abortion because i felt like their health was at risk. You had a number of the liberal justices say this could lead to women having real issues with their fertility in the future if theyre allowed to get so sick their organs fail or they have forced hysterectomies. A really interesting case here. Its going to have a large impact. A number of cases had trigger laws. When the justices decide what they want to do with this case, its going to have ripple effects around the country. Polls indicate there are a growing number of people who Support Abortion Rights at least in some circumstances, right . Why against that backdrop do we have so many states passing these bans . Look, i think this has been a polarizing issue politically for quite some time. You have, as yamiche just said, trigger laws in states that may have passed laws a long time ago that have now caught up with where the Supreme Court is. Again, it shows you that theres red america and blue america. I think, though, increasingly the issue around abortion rights transcends red and blue america. We may have single Party Governments controlling legislatures in red and blue states, but weve seen this as a highly emotional issue. Its an issue that doesnt confine to traditional democrat and republican, and its a big win politically for democrats anytime the Supreme Courts discussing this, the news is discussing this or our Politics Center around it. Yamiche, these arguments touch all sorts of specific cases. They talked a little bit about it in the sound we played with Justice Kagan in the opening part. They talk about women at risk of losing their ability to have children at all going forward, having ectopic pregnancies, the risk of sepsis proving again that for millions of people this is not just something that might happen. It is something that has happened to them. Did the justices seem to be responding to those real world examples . They certainly did, especially when it came to Justice Kagan, justice sotomayor, and Justice Ketanji brown jackson. They said specifically what happens if a woman comes in and shes very sick, but shes not at deaths door but she ends up getting so sick she loses her organs, loses her Fallopian Tubes or a hysterectomy, her future fertility is impacted because doctors werent able to give her the care they needed. What if someone was having chest pains versus a heart attack. Thats what were talking about. They said if that person walked into an emergency room, doctors would say, okay, youre having chest pains. Its getting worse, we should make sure we treat you before you go into a fullblown heart attack. Idaho is telling doctors a person needs to be just about to have a heart attack or even in the middle of having a heart attack before they can get the treatment they need. That is not conducive with federal law, and they also said its not conducive with good faith medical care. The justices were honing in on that in particular talking about abortion, talking about the fact that theres a big difference between a health risk and death risk. We mentioned this is the second time in less than a month, eugene, and this is specifically about the idaho case, but the implications arent just for idaho, right . No, thats exactly right. All of these states that have bans or trigger laws like ya impeach was saying are watching these thing as its happening. The people who are really watching this biden white house, the biden ccampaign, democrats across the country. Every time that this has kind of come up over and over again since dobbs fell or since roe fell and dobbs came through, democrats and people who are proabortion have won, right, on every single ballot, whether it was the midterms, whether it was actual Abortion Referendums on the ballot, and the democrats have done something really interesting here. The stories that they are telling, the women that they are focusing on are women who would be impacted by an idaho law, right . Women who would need to be at deaths door. Women who might lose their ability to have children because a doctor wasnt able to give them an abortion. Those are the kinds of women that they are turning into surrogates and taking across the country as theyre talking about what republicans want to do. And so it is giving this case and any other case around the country whether its at the Supreme Court, the national Supreme Court or in a state, theyre giving more ammunition for democrats to go around and say these are the things that are happening. Were watching this happen to actual women. This isnt the specter of young people who have unprotected sex and then just accidentally get pregnant and need to get an abortion. This is about women who want to have children, people who want to have families and running into these extreme complications, and then losing their ability to have children or lose their or being in some kind of danger of going to jail or something with some of these laws. As a political issue, robert, i dont think theres any clearer divide than there is on abortion or the messaging around it, right . So yesterday what we heard in an interview from the former president , from donald trump was him saying how, actually, roe v. Wade turned this into a very simple situation. It gave everybody what they were looking for, this to be returned to states. The Abortion Issue has been largely taken off the table because when we did this, its what both sides, everybody wanted. Its tailor made now, its really working out well for people and theyre very happy. Thats his take on it. Let me play for you what joe biden said. For 50 years the court has recognized that women in america have a fundamental constitutional right, and then trump took it away by the deal he made. Now in America Today in 2024, women have fewer rights than their mothers and grandmothers had because of donald trump. Robert, take us inside the conversations and in the real world and the very few people and we talk about this a lot who actually will decide this election. Is this in the biden teams view the number one issue . Are republicans right, immigration is going to be the number one issue . Talk to us about the politics of this. Yeah, well, i mean, first and foremost, what donald trump is trying to do is wish into existence the hope that this issue is off the table. We know it is not off the table. It is not just on the table. Its in the center of the table. I dont think theres a more potent issue for the Biden Administration for this white house and this campaign because, again, this is an issue that transcends the typical red and blue. So youre going to see this front and center in what joe biden, kamala harris, you saw her move her schedule to show up in arizona after the Supreme Court there reinstituted a law that was passed in 1864. Look, youre going to see every single day the Biden Campaign hope that theres a discussion nationally about this issue. The Trump Campaign is going to try not to talk about this issue. Its not going to work well for the Trump Campaign to continue to try to pretend that this issue isnt going to be front and center. And again, i think as you mentioned, the people that are going to decide this race, suburban voters outside of milwaukee, suburban voters outside of detroit, suburban voters outside of phoenix and las vegas, all of those states, atlanta. Theyre watching this issue very closely. Theyre watching it for themselves. Theyre watching it for their families, and it is going to its going to be the biggest issue, i think, out there. Weve already seen arizona is absolutely a swing state. One of the closest in the 2020 election. The Supreme Courts ruling in arizona probably fundamentally changed the trajectory of where that states going to be. Yamiche alcindor, robert gibbs, thank you both. Eugene daniels, youre going to stay with me. In 60 seconds, more propalestinian demonstrations erupt at colleges across the country. Could College Graduations be at stake . Well head to the campus in the middle of this controversy. E ca middle of this controversy ill be honest. By the end of the day, my floors. Yeesh. But who has the time to clean . Thats why i love my swiffer wetjet. Its a quick and easy way to get my floors clean. Wetjet absorbs and locks grime deep inside. Look at that swiffer wetjet. What if you could go from this to this. With just one step tresemme silk serum. Time for the ultimate humidity test. Weightlessly smooth hair your turn. New tresemme keratin smooth collection. Students. Students of any age, from anywhere. Using our technology to power different ways of learning. So when minds grow, opportunities follow. Only purples Gel Flex Grid passes the raw egg test. No other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. Memory foam doesnt come close. Get your best sleep guaranteed right now save up to 400. Visit purple. Com or a store near you. Rjs. Today part of the propalestinian campus is being taken down, ratcheting down tensions that have disrupted the final weeks of classes and continued to raise questions about the balance between free speech and protecting jewish students from harassment and threats. But even as both sides agree to continue talks for the next 48 hours there, House Speaker mike johnson is due on campus. According to a press release, to talk to jewish students about the, quote, troubling rise of virulent antisemitism on Americas College campuses. Nbcs Antonia Hylton reports from columbia, Eugene Daniels is also back with us, and i want to bring in former Ohio Republican governor and msnbc political analyst, john kasich. He is a Senior Fellow at odder bien university, which is my alma mater. Antonia, what is the scene like on campus at this hour . Reporter chris, it is still tense here even as some parts of the camp are set to come down. Student organizers have come to an agreement with the university, which includes the removal of some of the tents. The removal of anyone who is not a columbia student from the encampment area, following safety guidelines per the new york Fire Departments and making sure people are not using discriminatory or harassment style language in that encampment, which the protesters say they were already trying to ensure there. All the way through the wee hours of the night, students were on Edge Thinking that at any moment this school was going to send the nypd in, and so i would say that even as these ongoing negotiations are taking place, chris, it is incredibly, incredibly tense right now. Take a listen to two folks that our team has spoken with, a propalestinian student and a jewish student describing some of the environment here. If the university says, hey, no diploma if you continue in these actions, what would your choice be . I think i would have to think about that, but i would probably stay out here. I think, again, thats a small sacrifice in The Grand Scheme of things. Honestly, the only thing keeping me together is my friends at this point, and the community, the Jewish Community here, but were suffering. Reporter students, administrators, faculty, they will be watching as speaker johnson arrives as well here, chris, and its created an interesting political layer to the dynamic here. What were seeing on campus is now that the president has frankly lost all sides, propalestinian students are furious with her for the decision to bring the nypd in. They felt that she was threatening them last night with potential Law Enforcement response if they didnt acquiesce to her demands, and then jewish students that i speak to say that they feel she hasnt done enough to keep them safe, and we expect to hear speaker johnson call for her resignation, chris. So governor, we have seen these protests pop up literally from coast to coast, tensions have been high not just at columbia. Extremely high, i think you can say in some places since october 7th. Students should have the right to feel safe on campus how do you see the politics of this and how concerning is this . Well, chris, i dont really care much about the politics. What i care about is people do have at a university the right to protest and free speech, but they do not have the right to disrupt or take away the rights of others, and universities have to be very firm about this. Ive talked to a president of a university, hes been at many universities. He said, look, free speech, the ability to protest, thats fine. But when it gets into the rights of other people who are at that university, thats where you draw the line and you must take action. And so thats sort of my sense about it. I mean, let the free speech go, but at the same time, do not be trying to disrupt the life of somebody else and their rights as well. This is if we go to the politics, eugene, complicated. President biden has, of course, weighed in here saying theres absolutely no place for antisem