Now, before the brd to sell mcd to the National Enquirer for a million dollars. At one point, prosecutors revealed the Text Exchange between davidson and the tabloids editor where davidson joked, throw in an ambassadorship for me. Im thinking aisle of man. When asked whoi he made the joke, he said it was a reference to trumps candidacy, that if the tabloid bought the story, it would help trump. I want to bring back in vaughn hillyard. Kimberly is a boston globe columnist and msnbc political analyst and jeremy is still with me. Criminal Defense Attorney and former prosecutor with the manhattan d. A. s office. If you were Donald TrumpsDefense Attorney, what about this mornings testimony worries you most . Well, i think its established that not everyone had an agenda. You have farro whos connecting the dots. You have the sense of urgency. Establishing intent or basis. That court of texting you just referenced, im saving the future of potential president s backside. Everything is really starting to establish to keep the proof beyond a reasonable doubt that theres intent and knowledge and theres a reason why its still happening. So carol, i want to go back to 2019 and that is when davidson did an interview with abc. He talked about the hush money payments. Why he thought they happened and heres what he said back then. The access Hollywood Tape was the motivating factor and this case actually resolved. It defeats the argument that this was done for purely personal reason and that this was in fact done for political reasons. Because after the access Hollywood Tape that Something Like this could be the straw that broke the camels back. Again, i want to go back to the idea if i can first, carol, donald trump, his team, would like you to believe that anything that was involved in a cover up was trying to protect his family. Right . He said as much in the opening argument. If he testifies to that, that the access Hollywood Tape threatened Donald Trumps candidacy so there was real urgency to pay off women who could hurt his Campaign Even more, how critical is that . Very critical because this is the man whos receiving money for his clients and he understands exactly why the money is being paid. He talked about an ambassadorship in 2019. The reasons why this money was being paid. Because it followed the same course. They couldnt have another Access Hollywood debacle on their hands so theyre accepting this money to hush up this story so that Donald TrumpsElectoral Campaign will not be affected. That is very important to the prosecutions case, obviously, because theyre trying to make this misdemeanor into a felony and in order to do that, theyd have to show an interference with election laws, Campaign Finance laws. This is the key to making this a felony. You know, its interesting to me, kimberly, and id like your reaction to this. That everything weve heard from folks who are inside the courtroom, folks who are inside the overthrow room, and we talked about the fact that he seemed to have his eyes closed a lot of the time. Whether he was sleeping or not, we dont know. At times when you think it would be difficult to listen to, for most people, it would be difficult to listen to an exchange where youre asked about an affair that you allegedly had. When a question is asked, did melania know in an exchange, donald trump seems to be, maybe hes tired, but you could also argue hes disciplined. Hes not reacting. At least in front of the jury, which is what any Defense Attorney would tell you. Dont belie any thoughts, feelings you might have to the jury. Does it surprise you . Well, i wont say that im surprised. I will say that it is difficult for his defense if theyregoing to make the case that the reason for any money to be paid to keep a story quiet would have been to protect his family or to protect his wife as opposed to the campaign. His demeanor is something that the jury can see. Whether its entered into evidence or not. And that clearly cuts against this idea. But its also the idea that if any of us were facing a criminal indictment or in a criminal trial as a defendant for them to lose such interest in parts of the case. Even if it is some of the more technical testimony that happened this morning. Thats really interesting. I dont think thats a great way. I disagree with the argument that maybe he gives an illusion of the innocent. I dont think so. Im really gob smacked that one of his attorneys isnt sitting and pinching him to make sure his eyes stay open throughout. Youre not the first person i think to suggest that theyve tried any number of things but so far, apparently, that has not worked. Let me ask you about something that happened during the morning break. That was a discussion between the attorneys and the judge about whether the d. A. s team can introduce evidence of trumps Pressure Campaign against witnesses. Something that the judge had previously ruled they could not do. Do you think things have changed enough that you think the judge might change his mind . The d. A. s office has to be a little bit careful here about piling on and we just had a ruling in the Harvey Weinstein case by the highest court in the state of new york saying that the prosecution went too far in introducing evidence of other acts. Other things outside of the issues at trial here. The allegations in the indictment. They went too far and weinsteins conviction was reversed on that basis. Its a little bit of a surprise to me that the d. A. s office is pushing this argument that they want to be able to cross examine donald trump on the most recent violations of the gag order. It seemed a little bit extremist to me. But these are apparently part of the d. A. s evidence that this man cannot follow rules. He will do whatever is necessary to in the shortterm, advance his own interests and their argument is that is part and parcel of the allegations in this decision by the judge, right, he fined him 9,000. He said take all those posts down by 9 15. He beat that by about 45 minutes. They were all taken down. Going forward though, the judge said future violations could cost 2500. Could be 150,000. Could be jail time. Let me get your thoughts on the gag order. I think its absolutely appropriate and should be considered in dealing with cohen and daniels if theyre going to take that position. Earlier, the other thing the judge said, that cohen and daniels, who have been talking about this, whats good for the goose is good for the gander. The relationship with his attorney and the oval office and trump towers may be trumps house but when youre at 100 Center Street and youre in the trenches, thats my house and you listen to my rules and im not standing by you outside of the courtroom, even if you have your agenda and politics, which i understand, but i am here to defend you within the four corners of that court. If youre going to work against me, you are going to suffer the pain from that. Not because of me. If you dont like that, go elsewhere. Obviously that cant happen at this point, but the point im getting to now is because donald trump is saying the things he is saying, hes potentially exposing himself to things he could be crossed on if he testifies. The fines are in the sense he can get his message out for cheap. He may also raise far more money off that than he pays. I would just finish by saying if the judge does decide to put him in, it doesnt mean that in the middle of trial, all of a sudden, donald trump is shackled and put in. Something could happen at the beginning of the trial, later on. Hopefully it doesnt get to that point though i fear that donald trump, because his attorneys arent reigning him in, this is going to continue. This is going to be i think one of the most fascinating things to watch in this trial. We saw donald trump whether pushed by his lawyers, listen to what the judge said, took down those postings. It is very hard for him. He is someone again who has always been able to do what he wants to do and its hard for him as well. What jeremy says makes common sense. You hire someone. You pay them a lot of money. You rely on their experience and when they say this is what you need to do, this is how you need to behave, presumably most people with their futures on the line would listen. Were going to have to wait and see, arent we, what donald trump decides to do with what the judge and his lawyer have to say to him. We will. And i think its very likely we will see future admonitions and Contempt Rulings if donald trump continues this behavior. We have seen, whether its his attorneys, his advisers, whether its people in the white house who he picked. His Cabinet Members who were like a Revolving Door of people because they did not listen to him. He believes he knows the best way to do everything including the best way to message to his supporters on truth social. Whether it violates the gag order or not. So i think hes a terrible client to have if you want him to listen to you. So i would not be surprised if we see orders like this at all. Let me go to whats going to happen because were seeing movement around the court. Carol lam, whats the most important thing youll be looking for when this Testimony Resumes . So, chris, for a prosecutor, please remember that the evidence has to come in witness by witness and one witness may testify about a number of things on the timeline and it may be confusing to the jury. So what the prosecutor is keeping their eye on is Closing Argument. Because Closing Argument is whether they look back on all the evidence and tie it together for the jury. Sometimes they use a timeline. Sometimes they track the indictment and they say heres the evidence of the violation of this count. Count one. Heres the evidence of the violation of this count, count two. You saw some tedious testimony this morning. What were going to be looking for is the build up to more sensationalist witnesses like cohen, daniels and perhaps Karen Mcdougle. What were looking for is is their testimony going to make sense in the context of what theyve heard. Is the jury going to understand everything theyre saying and why theyre being asked these questions and what part of the story this plugs into . All of these witnesses have to corroborate each other. Were not getting a lot of advanced notice about who the next witnesses are going to be because the prosecution is concerned about statements donald trump might make that might intimidate them. Vaughn, here comes donald trump. As i said, were starting to get a sense of some movement. The assembled press is there and he gave them the fist pump. He often gives him that, the thumbs up, lets them know hes going to talk to them later. Sue and lisa were talking about for all it mundaneness this morning, there are a lot of interesting changes that would get the attention and keep the attention of the jury. The question everybody wants to know is when are we going to see a Karen Mcdougle, a Stormy Daniels . Talk about what we know Going Forward and what we dont know. We could very well see mcdougle shortly. Look, having Keith Davidson come forward is sort of the intermediary between mcdougle and daniels with Michael Cohen and dylan howard and david pecker at the National Enquirer. We are now connecting these two entities together. Were going to be looking at the witnesses who are at the heart of this. And now the question is do Karen Mcdougle, Stormy Daniels, to carols point, do they have the corroborating testimony or evidence to show that donald trump directed the scheme to play out here. That is an outstanding question. Having Keith Davidson answer these questions methodically and in chronological order. We started off in june with him coming with that text message to the National Enquirer editor saying quote, i have a blockbuster trump story. Then one month later, knowing they were going to be competing with ami and abc was allegedly interested in getting mcdougles story. You have the editor of the National Enquirer messaging Keith Davidson saying quote, we are going to lay it on thick for her. So you suddenly have these players here who are so instrumental to understanding whether this was actually a conspiracy here at play. I think its important. We were talking about the likes of Karen Mcdougle and Stormy Daniels here. These are not political figures. Weve got to continue to come back to that. That in the middle of all this is a republican nominee who you just saw walk into the courtroom followed by senior adviser, jason miller, as well as Club For Growth president , david mcintosh. You have ken paxton, ag out of texas. Eric trump, his own son. So really for the first time in stark contrast to the first two weeks, youve seen donald trump coming with a cast of not only political, but also a Family Member and other political allies here to have his back inside of that courtroom at a time when the testimony is only going to increase the pressure on him and his Legal Defense team is only going to rise as the testimony mounts. Were waiting for 2 15 to hit. It is 2 15. Testimony is going to resume. I dont know. This is something thats been talked a lot about, vaughn. That unlike many defendants, Donald TrumpsSupport System has been really his lawyers, right . To the point where last week, it was uncomfortable, they thought, for him to be sitting by himself and they had lawyers who were moving chairs so that he would have somebody next to him when he otherwise would have been alone. It might be significant, the fact that eric trump is there. Right. And look for donald trump. He feels he is being restricted in what he can do and base off this gag order and the fact he has found to have violated it with social media posts, he is being restricted from attacking witnesses that are crucial to this or questioning the jury and specific jurors motives by being among those that are impanelled. So for him, he needs allies from the outside and while we have seen up on capitol hill, some people like Marjorie Taylor greene or matt gaetz come to his defense. For him, donald trump likes to see people defending him. Thats where he was talking about last week, thousands were out here wanting to protest but couldnt get near the courthouse. Thats just not fact. Donald trump, by airing that out, he is telling the world he wished he had seen thousands of people coming out to defend him, protesting outside of this courthouse despite that not being a reality. Now being able to see his Campaign Team by his side, at least he knows there are people at least visually defending him. Thats why this isnt like alina hobba, her coming out to the Courthouse Steps and blasting the judge and blasting the prosecutor. Blasting attorney general james. Thats not whats going on this time. Blanche is much more measured in keeping the defense contained to the courtroom. Lets bring folks up to date because all the parties are back and gathered and donald trump has been chatting with one of his lawyers and Keith Davidson is coming back to the Witness Stand. Wiles and trump have gone back to their seats in the gallery along with ken paxton. Everything is settling down. Everything is moving in that direction to get back to resume. Let me go to you, jeremy, because where we left off specifically, im going to read again from our document, was why, to davidson, why did you need this to happen . Why did you need to make this agreement . The answer was because she at the time, at that time, this is nonprivileged information, she add announced her desire not to tell the story about her interlude with donald trump. They essentially ended it there going to a Zoom Invitation that involved a number of people who we know, but where do you pick up from there . You pick up from there that it wasnt her intent to go and then sell that story and tell that story to another party, which was abc. And it wasnt her agenda to make hay out of it to selfishly hurt the president. She wanted to keep it quiet. Shes a credible person. This whole story from daniels through mcdougle is really an effort to keep it quiet so the president s election was not going to be impacted and try to take it back to that underlying crime that bumps up that investigation with business records. Does it make sense that mcdougle could be the next witness . Absolutely. But id hold it close to the chest if im the prosecution. Which theyre doing. Right. Im not giving them anything. No reason to give them anything. By them, you mean the defense. Correct. You have to give them the witnesses, provide discovery. Im not telling them whos next. Carol, vaughn, kimberly, jeremy. Please stand by. In 60 seconds, all eyes and ears on americas most famous exfixer. Will cohens comments outside of court hurt him being a critical witness in this trial . Him bein witness in this trial . But im done struggling. Now i sleep with inspire. Inspire . Inspire is a Sleep Apnea Treatment that works inside my body wit