On this new hour of ayman, What In The World happened to reagans Republican Party . Our first guest wrote the book on how the alternative right took center stage. Also, the clock is ticking for trump to pick a running mate. Who he chooses could boil down to one thing, loyalty, and believing the big lie. And, the mindnumbing conversation between ann coulter and Vivek Ramaswamy that earned them the title of worst of the week. I am Ayman Mohyeldin. Lets do it. I start this hour by taking you back to the quaint time that was 2015, back when we were still figuring out what the dating term, ghosting, actually, meant, and what a lot of us did not know about that Fringe Movement that was the alternative right. That all changed with Donald TrumpsGolden Escalator Ride at trump tower, when he announced his longshot president ial campaign. Trump, of course, started by courting the fringe alt rights movement, enlisting the help of steve bannon, and then Executive Chairman of breitbart. This early flirtation was concerning for conservative commentator, david french. He wrote an oped in 2015 calling out the movement, saying many of them are unapologetically White Nationalists, hate interracial adoption, and other race mixing practices, and think about the issue of immigration, primarily, if not exclusively, in racial terms. French and his wife were quickly bombarded with threats from the altright trolls. As nancy french writes, the most disturbing attack targeted their ethiopian daughter, naomi. They were sent images of the sevenyearold in a gas chamber with donald trump, wearing a nazi uniform and pulling a gas lever. It only got worse when david french briefly considered running as a thirdparty candidate in 2016. Here he is on msnbc, after he nixed the idea, talking about the emotional toll these attacks had on his family. I have been up against trump for some time, and the assault on my family have been overwhelming, just as a writer. That online racist mob is very fond of pointing out that i have a multiracial family, so they have gone after my daughter in the worst way imaginable. Just a few months later, unlikely candidate donald trump was elected president of the United States, and frenchs nightmare was far from over. In 2018, nancy french received a call from the fbi informing her that their address had been found on the computer of a trump supporter, who infamously mailed pipe bombs to prominent democrats. In just a few short years, the altright movement graduated from a fringe group, to being flat formed and fully embraced by trump and his allies. The Republican Party had countless opportunities to prevent this normalization from happening, but they did not. They consistently failed to do anything. Not after charlottesville, not after the rise of the proud boys, not even after january 6th. What about the republicans that dared to stand up to donald trump . Mitt romney, liz cheney, Adam Kinzinger . They have become pariahs with no future in the modern Republican Party, the same with david and nancy french, by objecting to trump, and the rise of the altright, they have been ghosted by Conservative Friends and the community. They have become a political island, because in 2024, its not be altright anymore. Its just the right. Nancy french joins me now. She is the author of the new memoir, ghosted, and american story. Its great to have you on the show. Thank you so much for making time for us. Talk to us a little bit about your experience been ghosted from the gop. You write in the book about how you and your husband once attended the 2012 Cpac Convention where you were considered the prom king and queen there. How did you go from that to being outliers . Right, watching you talk about all of the things that our family has gone through made me choke up, because its very emotional to see it all just unfurled before your eyes. You take hits, hits, hits, but seeing you put it together, it choked me up a bit, so my apologies on that. You were talking about Ronald Reagan. David won the Ronald Reagan award in 2012, and everyone stood on their feet and said, we are the type of family that epitomizes conservatism, and we have never been welcomed there again. It has been harrowing. It has been disturbing, and one of the things that is alarming, of course, are the people who were trolling us online, on twitter, with the fake memes, and the Auschwitz Memes that they photoshopped are Family Members into. All of that is sad. The thing that is more disconcerting to me is the actual party, which he pointed out that the actual leadership. Its not the trolls that are the problem. Its the fact we have acquiesced to them and we are indistinguishable, the gop leadership and the trolls are indistinguishable. You cant tell the difference. Everyone is gas lighting us. You make an important part thats my point about the Political Party, and i wonder where you see yourself fitting politically now . Where are you able to find community in politics these days . Ultimately, for the sake of our democracy, we need vibrant political parties, we cant have just one Political Party that runs the shade of conservativism all the way to progressive left. Right, and i dont really have any good answers for this, to be completely honest. I have been so demoralized and sad over what is happened to the party of reagan. I grew up with Ronald Reagan pictures on my wall. But, i also cannot become a democrat, because i have beliefs and i hold my political values they dont align exactly with the Democratic Party either, but i like to sort of think about myself being allied with the descent, a coalition of decent people. People who are defiantly not taking what these parties are handing down to us as the two options. It might sound naove or piein thesky, but im just not going to acquiesce to when the gop tells me this is my option, i will not acquiesce, and i think thats one of the most american things i have ever done in my life. I think its a beautiful thing, and certainly, something the country needs right now. I wanted to ask you about one of your trump supporting clients in your career as a ghostwriter, who downplayed the rise of the altright, even as you were being attacked. We always thought in our country, that the altright or far right were on the fringes, they would never become mainstream. At this point, though, you really cant deny the altright and the White Nationalists and supremacist have become mainstream, certainly, within the Republican Party. Yes, thats exactly right. All of my clients. I had wonderful clients. I have been a ghostwriter for many years. I have written for gop celebrities, pundits, as well as reality tv stars. I might be one of the only people to have been to a bachelor wedding, so ive had a lot of fun with my ghost writing career. But, i loved all of my conservative clients, that we started to disagree ideologically. I did not want to annoy them to death, which i know i was doing. I would say, you need to write this about trump, and i would push back. Really . Do we want to mock john mccain, his heroic war record . Is that what we want to do . It wasnt their fault, but we started believing different things, which is really awkward, as if you are ghostwriter, you have to be able to intuit what your clients want and what they need to say. And, the best way to say it, so eventually, either i was fired where i quit from all of my clients. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference because there were so many emotions involved, because i loved all of my clients. How do you explain how they fell under that spell . There is probably a big chunk of the population in society that thinks, people are making a deal with the devil. They are bargaining, certainly, the 1 thinks that trump is good for the Republican Party or for my tax racket, if you will. But how do you explain the clients you had falling under the spell of the modernday Republican Party . Are they doing it for their own self interests, or were they True Believers . I think if you put them under a litmus, or lie detector test, they would, literally, pass it, at every stage. In 2012, when we were having conversations, and in 2014, 2016, i think they would pass it on each level, because there is such a haida level of self delusion here. I think that they just gradually changed, the proverbial frog in a pot, or whatever. Boiling water. I think they gradually changed and didnt realize it because there were so few people, who were calling them out. You put the people up on the screen, who are now as popular as head lice in the Republican Party. No one listens to us. No one listens to his people. Since the momentum, its like every sunday School Lesson you have had in church, when the momentum starts going, and they pass you the red solo cup, are you going to take the swing . The Republican Party was like yes, party lets chug this. A few of us were like, this sort of feels like poison. This doesnt feel like what we signed up for. Im not sure what the answer to that is, but i could not keep i didnt feel like god had given me my Writing Talents to mischaracterize people or push this agenda, so it left me occupationally homeless. Let me ask you about the future where you think the Republican Party goes after trump. He is not going to be around forever. Can they rebuild the party in a post trump era, or is the damage too severely done that you will get a trump 2. 0, whether it is Marjorie Taylor greene or ron desantis, or Vivek Ramaswamy, are there enough people remaining in the party to steer it away from trumpism, or has it infected the party so much that its a lost cause . I feel like i cant imagine that its not a lost cause, as all of the values that we held dear, if you just wrote them down, the gop platform that i grew up knowing about, we violated all of that. What is left . Is it the red hat . Is it a stylish thing . The fact that we have the same caps . No. We have nothing left. Its all vacuous. I dont know. I dont have any solutions for that, i just know that im not going to be part of it. Its nothing short of a cult, if you look at it on the superficial aspects, and what it has become. Nancy french, thank you for your time. I greatly appreciate it, and i am wishing you well. Thank you so much for having me. So next up, the competition that forces republicans to leave their values at the door. I think trump is going to play this like apprentice. Hes going to play it out. Hes going to make you join, hes going to make you follow it, and whoever you think is in the lead, somebody is going to come up from behind. Ind. Earer sk at 4 months. And skyrizi is just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. Serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. With skyrizi, nothing on my skin means everything nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. Learn how abbvie could help you save. If youre living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills. Good to go unscripted. Good to go on a whim. With cabenuva, theres no pausing for daily hiv pills. 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Thank you verizon business. kevin now our businesses get fast and reliable internet from the same network that powers our phones. aaron so whatevers next. Were cooking with fire. vo switch to the partner businesses rely on. I thought i was sleeping ok. But i was waking up so tired. Then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. Their four point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. So, i breathe better. And we both sleep better. And stay married. Senator, will you commit to accepting the Election Results of 2024, bottom line . At the end of the day, the 47th president of the United States will be present donald trump, and im excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment passed senator, yes or no, will you accept the Election Results of 2024, no matter who wins . That is my statement. That is my statement. That was republican senator, tim scotts concerning performance in what many viewed as his Audition Tape to be Donald TrumpsVice President. As a bulwark puts it, he is one of many in the race to self abase. There is also kristi noem, who faced swift backlash for confessing, unprompted, to shooting and killing her dog, a puppy, to be more precise. She spent last weekend at mara lago, but the negative attention may be too much for donald trump, who said she, had a rough couple of days. Another pit pick, j. D. Vance, recently downplaying january 6th, and the ex president s role in the insurrection. Joining us now, molly jong fast, Special Correspondent for vanity fair, and msnbc political analyst. Also with us, Dean Obeidallah, host of the Dean Obeidallah show. Its good to have you with us. The theory is, to be a potential Vice President ial nominee for donald trump, you have to be good on television. You have to be able to raise a lot of money. You probably have to have the willingness to deny the election. How do you think tim scott is faring right now . I mean, its a race to the bottom here. Its who can debase themselves the most. What is bad is that they go on television and do things like they say, they wont accept the results of the election, which is bad for democracy and undermined undermines the rule of law. We saw rick scott outside the courthouse saying, this is a democrat judge. These are all the things that are actually degrading the guardrails and the norms of a democratic society, so its quite bad, but its also fun to watch them destroy themselves. Fun to watch them destroy themselves, and also, probably willing to put their lives on the line, given what happened to mike pence. They were, literally, chanting, hang mike pence. I dont know if i want a job where i know that the eventuality is, i could be hung. Its remarkable. The senator from florida flies to new york to be Donald Trumps service animal, essentially, his emotional support animal. A Senator Sitting in the courtroom. Meanwhile, tim scott, j. D. Vance, the puppy killer. I think there should be a physical competition. I think this should be a steel cage match, three go in, one comes out. Thats the one who is going to win. They can all say the right thing. I want to see who is really going to fight for trump, physically fight for trump. They are doing real damage. They are really damaging the institutions. When rick scott was up there he was saying, this is a democrat judge with a democrat wife, and it was like, none of that is how this happened. There was a grand jury. There is a jury trial. And these people, who are the base, are believing this. This is their news source. I was going to ask you about another one, the daily beast is reporting that marco rubio wants to go from Little Marco To Potential TrumpVice President. Of course, marco trump, humiliated, defeated, insulted by trump throughout the 2016 campaign, but in order to do that, he would need to vacate his senate seat. For me, im thinking again, this guy is willing to self sabotage his political career, everything he fought for, just to potentially please donald trump. Look, its like The Apprentice, and The Apprentice got canceled in 2015 for lack of viewers, so im really hoping thats going to happen. Truly, and im not being morbid, i dont know if donald trump survives four years as president. He cant stay awake in his trial, and theyre talking about him. His skin looks like hes molting, and im not sure what, physically, there is a cognitive decline going on. Whoever he picks needs to be vetted. Even if you dont like anybody in the corporate media, they need to really but that person, because that person billy could be president , and im not wishing donald trump ill. He will be 78 in a few weeks. He doesnt look well. He doesnt have the energy. We know that something is going o