Chris jansing reports. At this hour, two debates that could shake the final months of the race for the white house. Donald trump and joe biden agree to go one on one with a moderator no audience. Our brand new reporting at the back channel conversations that took place between the campaigns. Where is Rudy Giuliani . Prosecutors say theyre trying to serve him with an arizona indictment but they cant find him, and its not for lack of trying. Well explain. Plus weve got new details about the ship that caused the baltimore bridge collapse. What were learning about Power Blackouts on board the day before the accident. And markets rising to all time highs after the u. S. Releases a key inflation report. What it all means for your bottom line. Our nbc News Reporters are following all of the latest developments and we start with the date. At least tentatively set for the first biden trump debate of 2024. Nbcs mike memoli is at the white house. We just learned there have been these Back Channel Discussions between campaigns about these debates. What do we know about how all of this came about . Well, chris, this came together pretty quickly. Maybe a little too quickly. It turns out that the teams for both the president and the former president have been having some informal conversations over the last few weeks about getting to this point. You know what kicked it off. It was out of all things howard stern. President biden did that interview with the Talk Radio Host when he was in new york just a few weeks ago. It was there for the first time that the president committed that he would be willing to debate donald trump. That kicked off the biden team, the impetus to get the conversation going. We saw the Biden Campaign putting out the memo, laying out the terms earlier than the commission on president ial debates composed. We saw things fall into place. Cnn agreeing to host the first debate. Abc on september 10th. Were seeing the emergence of debates over debate. Donald trump posing another debate hosted by fox news in october. We expect to hear from the biden team on that. The biden teams criteria ruled out fox as a Media Sponsor because they did not sponsor a debate in 2020. When you look at the stakes, it couldnt be higher. The biden team did want to seize on this day, a day where donald trump would not be facing his trial. They have the media spotlight to themselves. So they proposed this, and they really want to accelerate, chris, this choice for voters as a Binary Choice between joe biden and donald trump. What better way than to have them on a debate stage together to crystallize for voters that this is the choice this november. Mike, let me ask you a question, and im going to ask the control room to put that graphic back up. Not decided yet, it says moderators, does that mean it could be more than one moderator or we dont know who the person is . We dont know yet. This is why, when we see the terms have been agreed to for these two debates, theres more room for maneuvering here, chris. I wouldnt necessarily put this into stone. There will be opportunities, potentially, for both campaigns to object to certain parameters here. At least we have the broad contours of these discussions. Cnn putting out some of the terms, interestingly, which would rule out rfk jr. , a third party spoiler. One of the criteria for the june debate, you have to be on enough State Ballots to qualify to have 270 electoral votes. Rfk might not get there by june. That puts him out of the running and we have seen the campaign responding, this is an effort to put him on the sidelines. Mike memoli, more to come. Thank you so much. Arizona prosecutors are having a tough Time Tracking down Rudy Giuliani. They want to serve him with papers that he has been indicted. Vaughn hillyard covering this story for us. Whats going on here . Theres a lengthy list of individuals who were indicted three weeks ago, stemming from the alleged efforts to overturn arizonas 2020 election, and send a fake slate of electors to be counted on june 26th, 2021. One of the defendants, Rudy Giuliani, the former new york mayor. Im told by an aide inside the Arizona Attorney generals office, they have been unable to serve Rudy Giuliani his indictment to appear for his Arraignment Hearing next week. This, again, was an indictment that came down three weeks ago, just in the last ten minutes, chris, i got off the phone with an aide to Rudy Giuliani himself who said he is one of the most famous men in america, how can they not find him. Hes in florida, hes in new york, and if they want to claim they were able to count all of the ballots fairly in 2020 election, they should be able to track down Rudy Giuliani himself. Of course next week is that Arraignment Hearing and they are still looking to issue him that indictment. Chris. Vaughn hillyard, keep us posted, thank you. We are also learning more about what happened in the hours before a ship plowed into that bridge in baltimore, causing the collapse. Nbcs ryan nobles is reporting from capitol hill where all of this is the subject of a hearing today. What did we learn, ryan . Reporter well, we learned that Power Failure is likely the most important cause to this accident that took place in baltimore 49 days ago, but that the investigation is still very much ongoing. And one of the areas that investigators are zeroing in on is a separate Power Failure that took place ten hours before the accident itself. Listen to how the ntsb chair responded to questions about that new development that was released in a report yesterday. Take a listen. The ship had an emergency generator, however, the generator only powers systems like emergency lying, navigation. Radio equipment, alarms and a Steering Pump that allowed for low speed, limited rutter movements. They were essentially drifting. Investigators have been on scene consistently since this accident. In fact, they are on board the vessel as i testify today. It is unprecedented to be there that long. When she described that situation with the power loss, the second power loss took place when the ship was only 350 yards away from the base of the key bridge. Not nearly enough time to drop an anchor that would stop the massive vessel or for tug boats to get there this time to steer it out of the way of the ship. One other revealing note from the report that was released was the harrowing experience for the people on scene, including a member of the ships crew that had to run from the bow as he was dropping the ships anchor to avoid being hit by a piece of steel that was falling from the bridge, and a Maintenance Worker that was on the bridge at the time of the collapse that had to sprint to a span on the bridge that wasnt involved in the collapse. He barely escaped with his life. Chris. Ryan nobles, thank you for that. Meantime, theres a brand new report out in the battle against stubborn inflation, brian cheung has the story. Prices are going up in america. 3. 4 , thats how much prices rose between april of this year and april of last year. Thats slower than 3. 5 figure we had seen in the marchtomarch period. We need to look at what components are underlying the report, Gasoline Prices went up between march and april by 1. 1 . We saw Shelter Costs go up. How much does it cost to you before the mortgage on your home, going up by. 4 . The one bright spot, little good news we got from the report is food prices went basically sideways between march and april. Essentially no change by going up. 1 between february and march. One other point is food prices are different, depending on whether youre buying groceries at home or dining out. The costs of dining out are more expensive than buying groceries and cooking at home. The green line is the yearly price of groceries, the blue line, how much it costs to dine out. Its a lot cheaper to cook at home. Thats a big reason why you have Companies Like mcdonalds saying people are choosing to cook at home to save on money. Inflation remains a big household issue. Spending a lot of time in your kitchen, are you, brian . A little bit. Good for you. I cook a little bit myself. Brian cheung, always appreciate you coming in. In 90 seconds, theyre the swing dancing, swing state voters. What people in battleground michigan think about the criminal trial of a former president. When youre going to peoples houses, when youre knocking on doors, is trumps trial coming up at all in those conversations . I havent heard it yet. Reporter not once . We have been doing this now for three weeks. Have been doingw for three weeks. Work. Like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. Which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. Downy. Breathe life into your laundry. vo youve had Thyroid Eye Disease for a long time. And youve lived with the damage it caused. To make clothes softer, fresher, and better. But even after all these years, restoration is still possible. Learn how at tedhelp. Com. From pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dogs food to the farmers dog, the effects can seem like magic. But theres no magic involved. dog bark its just smarter, healthier pet food. Its amazing what real food can do. Dad and i finally had that talk. No, not that talk. About what the future looks like. For me. I may have trouble getting around, but i want to live in my home where im comfortable and my friends are nearby. I can do it with the help of a barber, personal shopper and exercise buddy. Someone who can help me live right at home. Lifes good. When you have a plan. So this is interesting. Brand new polling from yahoo you goff. Falsify business records. That is the charge at the center of his Hush Money Trial, a 7 increase from last year. We should note the polls surveyed u. S. Adults as opposed to just voters, but its the first time we have seen that number in a majority. Joining us now, jennifer palmieri, Communications Director in the obama white house, and the Hillary Clinton 2016 campaign, and cohost of msnbcs how to win 2024 podcast. And tim miller, former Communications Director for jeb bushs campaign, writer at large for the bulwark. Both are msnbc political analysts. Tim, when you see that poll number, does it make you think, yeah, maybe a trump conviction could sway the outcome of the election . Well, anything could sway the outcome of the election, chris. Anything could happen right now. Okay. Maybe i should have phrased that differently. Is likely to . I think its probably not likely. I dont want to be nalistic about this. How big is that group, probably not that big. The more interesting thing as you look at this number, im doing quick math in my head, a quarter of the folks didnt have an opinion at all. When you said 7 had decided now, had learned, they feel like he had committed these crimes. Thats interesting because when you look at the group thats going to matter in this election, its the people kind of disengaged and arent watching this all daytoday. That is different from the past. A traditional swing voter from the past was a moderate person, sometimes votes democrat, sometimes votes republican. This time the key electorate arent going to be engaged in politics at all. Some of them are learning new things about this trial. And i think its a little bit early to judge what impact it might have on people who arent following this minute by minute like we are. Is that, jennifer, the basis of the new piece you wrote for msnbcs how to win 2024 news letter. Whatever the polls say, democrats shouldnt freak out about them yet. What i said about this one, and theres been a lot of things about the New York Times poll. In particular, one thing that was odd is 20 of the people who they considered to be likely voters, did not participate in the last election. Thats a high number to think its going to be new to the electorate. Probably unprecedented numbers. I dont think its likely to be that, but one thing that i saw that was surprising to me was that 74 of the people said that they were satisfied with how their life was going. Thats a right track, wrong track number, thats the question, and thats a really high number. It doesnt suggest that people are necessarily looking for a change, but they might need to know more about what biden has done that contributed to making their life better, and to be credible to lay down the ground work that he can get more done in the second term. In terms of how the trial could affect swing voters, you know, im looking at the republican primary where last night in maryland, nikki haley continued to get about 20 of the vote. That suggests to me that those voters, these are republicans who are unhappy with trump. Theyre likely to be, i would suspect those voters would probably be unhappy with the conviction of trump as well. Not all of them, but some of those voters are going to be open to voting for biden too. In addition to getting the 2020 coalition back, there are other voters open to voting for him. Tim, the zombie vote, her campaign is dead but there are supporters out there. Nikki haley, thats a significant number, what was it, exactly, 20 in marylands primary. Nearly 18 in nebraska. Is it clear where the vote goes . Its not. I think the maryland one is interesting. Were doing a little bit of a Political Science experiment with the zombie vote. Biden voters that are my people, former republicans or independents that are Crossing Over because they dislike trump so much to turn out. We have seen that in a lot of states. That wasnt helping in maryland. Maryland had a Competitive Senate primary on the democratic side. If you are, you know, somebody that is a joe biden voter thats part of the democratic coalition, you probably wanted to have your voice heard in that race in your home state and its a closed primary. So i think that we are really looking at a clean group of one in five maryland republicans that are upset with donald trump, and i think that some of those people arent going to vote. Some will go home to trump. Some will vote for joe biden, and i think its a Core Audience that joe biden is trying to reach aggressively, going ahead to november. I have to ask about the big news. Biden and trump have agreed, june 27th, atlanta, theyre going to debate. Right now, the devils in the details, right, they still apparently are having some conversations about things like moderators, rfk jr. , tell me what its like to be in the middle of those kinds of conversations and where you think joe biden needs to sort of hold the line . Its super scary to be part of the conversations. The choice you think is going to work out for you, youre never really sure. The commission on president ial debates, very well meaning group, but when we dealt with them in 2016, they were woefully unprepared to deal with the sort of Disruption Candidate of trump. I think the biden team was right to go on their own. I think you want a clean stake of just trump and biden. If you got to deal with rfk, you got to deal with rfk. I think whats really smart, chris, is having it as early as june. Because, first of all, people start voting in cement, so we have to sort of advance everything two months, but also, you really want to define the race in june. I think we were very successful in the 2012 campaign with obama, and what the stakes were, defining our opponent, nice mitt romney, sort of quaint now, and what obama had accomplished. You just kind of want that set by june. So i think its really smart to get this going soon. Im going to get in trouble, tim miller, but im going to ask you anyway. Our friend matt dowd said in the last hour, he thinks this could be the most watched president ial debate ever, especially given trump has not debated at all through the primary. Do you agree with him . Its going to be highly watched, and im happy the Biden Campaign is doing it this way. He has to debate donald trump. Well all be tuning in. Tim miller, jennifer palmieri, thank you both. You can scan the qr code on the screen right now. That will get you expert analysis delivered right to your inbox, jennifer, other analysts, folks you know and trust, there it is, scan to sign up. As Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial speeds to its conclusion, what, if any, effect is that having on critical battleground states. I want to go to nbcs Shaquille Brewster in kent county, michigan, part of our ongoing series the deciders we were just talking about that small piece of the electorate that will decide this election. I know you talked to a number of moderate republicans. What did they tell you . Reporter many of them told me that they are familiar there is a trial. Some of them are keeping up with the updates and testimony in the trial, but the overwhelming amount of people told me this trial will not be a determining factor in how they vote. Let me step back a little bit. Kent county, the reason we are focused on this county is this is an area that was a traditionally republican stronghold. Donald trump in 2016 won it by a narrow margin, and in 2020, you saw joe biden flip it. We went to an event, a Community Swing dance lesson we were having downtown, brought together people across this swing county. I want you to listen to what they told me about the impact the trial is having on how they viewed this election. Does the trial impact at all how you view donald trump as a candidate . No, no. Reporter not a little bit . Other things have, but this, no. Reporter youre considering voting for him again . Well have to see what happens. Repo