Www. Chicagohumanities. Org event next month, i am headed up to canada. I will be in calgary june 3rd, toronto june 24th and vancouver on june 27th. I will keep you posted on all the details on social media. You can follow me on all the things. I hope to see you there. That does it for me. Thank you for watching. The Katie Phang Show begins right now. W. Donald trump lost two debates in 2020 and he has not shown up right away since then and acting like he wants to debate me again. Make my day. The first matchup with no student what is to take place june 27th. The earliest in modern history. Had i been present by, when adjusted for broad indictments, i would have parted him. It makes present abided the big and the person imparting the the little guy. This is the man that showed up to support donald trump, all wearing the same suit and the same type. They look like a due up group called the four reasons. They look to a mens warehouse softball team. The testimony of former t donald trump lawyer and fixer, Michael Cohen. Everybody the Defense Lawyer tried to poke holes in the recollections of Michael Cohen of conversations with mr. Trump about the alleged hush money scheme, the lawyer asserting that was a lie. When it comes to Cross Examination, one of the most important things to know, when to sit down. Weiser words have never been spoken. But the donald trump attorney may not be taking note. Y as we veer into day four of crossexamination, will he know when to sit down . A pivotal week in the Donald Trump New york election interferes trial with Michael Cohen on the Witness Stand. He is facing more than seven hours of crossexamination so far from Defense Lawyer todd blanche who attempted to paint h him as a serial liar and unreliable narrator. He brought up his 2018 guilty plea to tax evasion and other charges relating to his work ge for donald trump. Michael cohen responded firmly , i accepted responsibility and i am suffering the consequences as a result. Todd blanche hammering on the idea that the testimony of Michael Cohen is a part of a larger revenge tour , noting his comments on a podcast saying donald trump was about to get a taste of what i went through and i promise it will not be fun. Michael cohen will return to the Witness Stand for more crossexamination on tuesday morning. Joining me to break it on down is a legal analyst and cohost of the sistersinlaw podcast, and the author of the book, attack from within. And we are joint by joined by anna. A number of jury trials, i have to start with that quote about gated and get out on the cross and how todd blanche has been e going for more than seven hours. Can you remember what has landed in terms of a fatal blow at all through the Cross Examination of Michael Atcohen yes, it seems that todd blanche has partaking in What Ik Call Rookie mistakes. That is, going on too long, not having a specific plan, and asking one question too many. You know, as you suggested, the strategy of an effective Cross Examination is to pick out a o few key areas of impeachment, contradiction, or getting the witness to agree with helpful es points and be laser focused on those things so the jury can follow along. It may be that one of the things todd blanche is trying to do is exhaust Michael Cohen because that can be a strategy, wear them down so they lose their guard and admit the things they may not otherwise admit to. I dont think Michael Cohen will get on the stand and confess, youre right, todd blanche , i made it all up. What you want to do on Cross Examination is get the facts out and use them in your own argument on cross on Closing Arguments. Instead todd blanche is going on and on and try to get Michael Cohen to admit allies , just point out the contradiction and you can use it yourself. These are all about the es strategy, the process and Critiquing Todd Blanche as a lawyer and the real arbiters will be the jury. I think that, if you are more focused on the key factors that could be more persuasive with ul the jury. At the end of the day, having seen a lot of crossexamination of f cooperating witnesses, nothing here that was unexpected and i am sure the Manhattan District Attorney also expected before going into this case. Anna, the perfect teeing up to you for the next question, maybe the defense is trying to exhaust Michael Cohen. But the jury is at risk of being exhausted by this. You have been inside the courtroom since day one, i have seen you there e multiple times. Talk about whether the jury looks like theyre actually interested in anything coming out from the cross. I know there has been a tennis match back and forth, but 7 hours is a long time for a jury to sit there, even if they are taking notes. Katie, youre right, they have been very engaged throughout the case. They have look like they have been watching a tennis match, movingn their heads back and forth as they listen to questions. As todd blanche got into that second day of crossexamination where he was going over and over again with the subject he has already been over, he had a very disjointed and disorganized crossexamination with no clear themes or chapters. That was the first time i really started to notice that there were several jurors who look like they were downright bored. Some of them maybe even nodding off. I dont know if that is what in fact was happening but it didnt seem like that was the first time they seemed to lose interest. It was not until about 20 minutes before the lunch es break that todd blanche got around to a more substantive point in which he was attacking Michael Cohen and his recollection of events, focusing on these phone calls that Michael Cohen said he had with trumps bodyguard about the Stormy Daniels matter. Not until then the jurors picked up and became interested again. Again, it was poor timing on the part of todd blanche because this happened right before the lunch break. He did not get to carry that momentum into the Afternoon Session which is when he finally got around to the substance of the case. Barb, we have heard from the prosecution that Michael Cohen will be the last witness called in their case. Do you think there was a strategic error that we will not hear from keith schiller, maybe another witness . Number one i never wanted to start or stop with a cooperator because they have issues and they know that. I wanted to start and end on a high note. They will do a redirect on Michael Cohen and, emphasized the key things of the testimonyh maybe they considered that to be a high note. I wanted a safe with to conclude to finish strong. To your point about keith schiller, i think the jury will wonder where they were, they are in a position to share information that could confirm the story that Michael Cohen is telling them. They will wonder. The jury will be instructed that you should not consider the guilt or innocence of anybody else in deciding whether this defendant is guilty. There is a lot of things that are kept from a jury and they have to do the best they can with the information they have in front of them. I wonder why they were not called. Both are likely to invoke the Fifth Amendment right against selfincrimination but the prosecution has the power of immunizing them. Maybe theyre still worried they will say l things helpful to donald trump or perjure themselves if they are speculating. Their goal is to convict donald trump and not to prosecute someone else for perjury. It is risky but those are strategic choices that Te Prosecutors have to make when assessing the pros and cons of s calling particular witnesses. This is the Perfect Point to point out that you are both sticking with me, because, after the break, the Donald Al Trump defense, to be or not to be, there is still a looming possibility the former president could take the ngstan more on the Katie Phang Show , keep it right here. I thought i. But i was waking up so tired. Then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. Their four point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. So, i breathe better. And we both sleep better. And stay married. Sup . Who are you . Im your inner and wechild. Get in. Tter. Listen, what you really need in life is some freakin torque. What . Horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. What happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance . How about you love and accept this . Pppppowershot when can i drive . You already are the dodge hornet r t. The totally torquedout crossover. Deep down, i knew something was wrong. Since my fatigue and lightheadedness would come and go, i figured it wasnt a big deal. Then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means theres about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. Symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain, shortness of breath, fatigue, or Light Headedness can come and go. But if you have afib, the risk of stroke is always there. If you have one or more symptoms, get checked out. Holding off on seeing a doctor wont change whether or not you have afib. But if you do, making that appointment can help you get ahead of stroke risk. Contact a doctor and learn more at notimetowait. Com you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. At three in the morning. Any time of the day. What people dont know is that not all dirt is the same. You need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. Look at this new organic soil from miraclegro. Everybody should have it. It worked great for us. This is as good as gold in any garden. If people only knew that it really is about the dirt. Youre a dirt nerd. Huge dirt nerd. Im proud of it [ryan laughs] i dont want you to move. Im gonna miss you so much. You realize well have Internet Waiting for us at the new place, right . Oh, we know. We just like making a scene. Transferring your services has never been easier. Get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. Can i sleep over at your new place . Can katie sleep over tonight . Sure, honey this generation is so dramatic move with xfinity. With the prosecution already announcing Michael Cohen is the last witness, Monday Morning will be illuminating, will donald trump put on any defense . One perspective Expert Witness could be bradley smith, but not smith who Everyone Wants to hear from you as donald trump has repeatedly said, he has no problem taking the stand. One betting site says there is a 6. 28 chance that the former president will take the Witness Stand, which has dropped by 5 from earlier in the week following the conclusion of the testimony from Michael Cohen. Would you take those odds . Back with barb and anna. Anna, why put on a case at all if you are the defense . Especially if you dont have to carry the burden which is on the prosecution . One thing they may want to do is try to impeach the credibility of Michael Cohen with a prior inconsistent statements they allege he has made. You may put someone on like bob castillo who has said that he is willing to testify. He was the witness who testified on behalf of donald trump before the grand jury in new york when donald trump was indicted last year. The grand jury did not credit his testimony. The jurors already in this case heard a number of things about him, he was the attorney who tried to represent Michael Cohen after Michael Cohen began being investigated by federal authorities in 2018 related to the Karen Mcdougal matter. During those Conversations Castillo was having with Michael Cohen , he said he had nothing on donald trump but Michael Cohen has already told the jurors on direct examination that, he was not telling the truth to costello because he wanted to stay loyal to donald trump and he was the subject of a Pressure Campaign in Which Costello was making references to donald trump helping them out, like sleep well tonight, you have friends in high places. This is a strategy that benefits the defendant might want to put on, they may have him speak to Michael Cohen being a liar, the main theme of the defense case, but i am doubtful they will put Robert Costello on, because it opens him up to crossexamination by the prosecution. We will see. As you said, the question of whether donald trump will take the stand. If he does, there is a number of things the prosecution can ask him about, like the carroll case in which he was said to have defamed her, and his civil fraud case in which he was found to have fraudulently misstated his assets. They can ask him about being held in Contempt Of Court in that case. A lot of risks if donald trump takes the stand and that is what i am doubtful, less than a 6 chance that he will do so. Barb, donald trump has been charged with 34 felonies, there has to be the intent to conceal or commit another crime, how important is it for the prosecution to explain in Closing Arguments to the jury that they, the prosecution, they dont need to prove that secondary offense beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt . There is no additional burden, almost like having two trials in one. I think making sure the jury understands that case is important, i went to trial school for new prosecutors at the Department Of Justice and they explained that most often, when a jury returned a not guilty verdict in a case against the government, not because they did not believe the government, it was because they did not understand the governments case. In complex whitecollar cases, it could be the jury does not follow along. Because the government bears the burden of proof, if they dont follow along, they lose. It is important people have said, what did he do wrong . Nobody understands the crime. It is not difficult but that prosecution needs to make sure the jury understands that and they will get it in two ways, through the jury instructions, the court will explain the law. That there does need to be this falsification of Business Records with intent to defraud by concealing another crime. It does not need to be proved that the other crime was committed just that there was an intent to do so. The other crime is this campaignfinance violation. The contribution by Michael Cohen that exceeds the 2000 limit, the contribution by ami, a corporation, in violation of the law. The intent is what matters, not the actual commission. It will be the burden on the prosecution to prove that. We will see you again very soon. Anna, i will see you in new york in a few days. Coming up, i hear you are free on wednesdays, the two plan debates between joe biden and donald trump and why the Biden Administration shot down the idea of adding two more last night. Capital hill climb back, Jasmine Crockett is here on our Fire Exchange with how the maga caucus is governing by chaos instead of doing the real Work Americans need them to do. Stay with us. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. 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