To those words and admit he has a financial stake in how Donald TrumpsHush Money Trial plays out. Tons of details and memorable moments in his testimony today including an Admission Cohen stole from the Trump Organization and that he paid one client with cash stuffed in a Brown Paper Bag. Just before the trial broke for the lunch break, the prosecution started its redirect by focusing on the Stormy Daniels payments and pushing back on the defenses suggestion they were correctly labeled as legal work cohen did for donald trump. The question now, did multiple days of crossexamination destroy cohens credibility in the eyes of the jury, and could that help Donald Trumps defense get the former president off the hook, or do they believe him . Do they believe hissy kwens . A key thing that was raised out of the earshot of the jury when they went to lunch, chris, this whole issue of the cspan clip that showed Keith Schiller and donald trump were on a stage in a rally when trump was leaving the stage, Keith Schiller was with him for enough minutes for Michael Cohen to have called and spoken to both of them as he has testified. I want to bring in nbcs dasha burns outside the courthouse. Also joining us, Washington PostNational Investigative reporter carolyn leonnig. Former manhattan assistant da catherine christian. Lets pick up where we left off last hour before i rushed from the courthouse. Catherine, how important is this picture . The defense would argue we arent saying Keith Schiller and donald trump werent together. Were saying when they had a conversation they were talking about the 14yearold crank caller. Its important for the jury, if any of them had a doubt whether or not mr. Schiller or mr. Trump were together, that they have confirmation of that if the judge allows the photo in. When you have a situation like this where so much of the key evidence is about numbers, documents, allen wiesel ber eeg picture on a piece of paper. It can help. Anything to help Michael Cohens credibility in terms of the prosecution is great. The most corroboration you can have for him will help this case, particularly if you have some jurors on the fence about, oh, i dont know if i really believe him. They can deliberate and say, but x, y and z were corroborating. I want to go back to the end of 2016. We were able to google the cspan screen grab. Im sure we have video of this as well because we were recording these rallies. Its donald trump in tampa bay and hes just finished with his speech. Keith schiller is behind him. Theyre walking off stage, 7 57. The phone call apparently happens at 8 03. Im thinking back to that time when im trying to make sense of what the defense is arguing in my mind, that what Keith Schiller does immediately after walking off stage at a rally while he is maybe still with donald trump is text Michael Cohen to call him immediately about the 14yearold is allegedly that Michael Cohen says is harassing him. I dont know if we have Vaughn Hillyard with us. I hope we do. Id love to get vaughn in on this because he was following the campaign at the time. Well get him back later. I dont know if its reasonable to say he would call only about the 14yearold moments after he walked off stage. I think finding evidence of this might be difficult. Jeremy, you say this is potentially something that the prosecution can argue the context and the reasonableness around this photo if they find it to be necessary in their Closing Arguments. Not making the argument during direct or cross. Thats not when youre making the argument. You may become argumentative. The argument itself, its not plausible that call would have been made to discuss a 14yearold is an argument to be made at summation. Its just another piece of evidence to say believe Michael Cohen because of this, this and this. This image we have on our screen is not the right one. Keith schiller is this guy right now in the red tie. Thats his bodyguard. Here they are walking off the stage, i believe with secret Service Walking off the stage after the speech in tampa bay, florida. This is october 24th, 2016. It is days before the election. It is heated. It is intense. Maybe not everyone has this experience, but i know when i get off of four hours with you lovely ladies, the first thing i do is check my phone and get a fill on things that are happening in every aspect of my life for the last four hours. We cant really check our phones when were on television. So its not unreasonable that donald trump coming off the stage at a rally would get a fill from Keith Schiller. Catherine, does it seem crazy to you . Its not cracrazy. I agree is Keith Schiller going to care a lot about the 14yearold crank caller days before election day . That will be the argument that the prosecution will argue in summation. They go after defense. If defense makes a big dial about it in their summation, you can expect to hear anybody doing the summation for the prosecution to rebut that. To catherines point, theyre going to make a big stink about this is about a 14yearold, didnt have an opportunity to speak about what was going on with Michael Cohen and the extortion that theyre alleging, then similarly its not reasonable let me ask you about timing. The defense is going to argue their closing first, right . The prosecution goes second . Thats correct. The prosecution could arguably change up their argument in response to what the defense team is proposing. If they dont mention it in the summation, why in the world would you bring it up . Youre going to stick to your strongest arguments as a prosecutor. What do you think they might have been talking about . I dont know, i was trying to put my head into that moment and trying to think if it seemed reasonable to me at the time, for Keith Schiller to have that kind of conversation or not be doing something that donald trump would have been asking for in those moments. I dont know. Its an issue to raise. What we dont know is whether donald trump would say whats the latest with stormy. Let me go to Carol Leonnig on this. Michael cohen was asked whether or not he would update donald trump on his daughter who apparently was the target at the time of an extortion plot, one of a series of things they say were going on at the time. Michael cohen said no, updating him on his daughters situation is not something i would do. Lets talk about the believability, the common sense that the jury may bring to this no matter how much they know about donald trump. Well, i think your open question there, chris, is basically what did donald trump care about and what did he want his minions to keep him abreast of. There were very Critical Issues for donald trump in the weeks running up to the election. Lets keep in mind donald trump did not expect to win the election, expected to lose it, but felt it was a great branding opportunity nonetheless and did not like the idea of being humiliated, so kept questioning whether or not the results were going to be valid if he didnt win. Really it was a promotional kind of walk, if you will, those final weeks. But what did he care about the most . Michael cohen would have known that donald trump cared about anything that would have made him look small or challenged his reputation, raised questions about his electability and anything having to do with money. Those are the key issues for donald trump in those weeks coming up to the election, my rep, my money, my stakes here, the consequences for me. I think its not unreasonable to presume that, if donald trump said to Michael Cohen this is whats important, thats what Michael Cohen would have steered himself to and stealed himself for. In 0 seconds, more for our reporters and analysts who have spent all morning in the courthouse including our Rachel Maddow who just got to our camera. Thats next. Ust got to our camera thats next. [introspective music] recipes. Recipes written by hand and lost to time. Are now being analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. try Dietary Supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. vo youve had Thyroid Eye Disease for a long time. And youve lived with the damage it caused. Voltaren, but even after all these years, restoration is still possible. Learn how at tedhelp. Com. What is cirkul . Cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. Cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. Cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. Cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul. Com. I want to bring in msnbcs rachel mad dough host of, of course, the Rachel Maddow show. Rachel, describe the experience and how, if you could see trump or the jury, either, this whole argument with Michael Cohen on the stand and the crossexamination which seemed pretty tough, and then the redirect which was cleaning a lot up. Reporter yeah. Andrea, it was a really, really interesting day for a lot of different reasons. From a personal perspective, i felt very lucky i had a great Vantage Point of the entire jury and also of trump. Theres Police Officers that sometimes get in the way of seeing trump. I could see them both pretty much entirely for most of the day which was interesting. One of the things i dont think i was able to appreciate before was the palpable interest level of the jury. Today we saw the switch from the end of the crossexamination of Michael Cohen being conducted by todd blanche to the start of the redirect, meaning the prosecutors going back to cohen and giving him openended questions and letting him explain himself. While todd blanche was very animated, agitated, yelled at Michael Cohen a few different times, the jury didnt seem to be following him all that tightly. I noticed several jurors kind of yawning or staring off in the distance, maybe not knowing what he was getting at. He seemed to be trying to compensate for that by putting emotion into it. I dont know that it made it more coherent. When Susan Hoffinger took over, her redirect had a lot of pace. It was very punchy. She was basically saying, Michael Cohen, you were asked about this. Explain what you meant. You were asked about this, explain what you meant. Essentially trying to obviate any points that the defense might have been able to put on the board with this very aggressive crossexamination of Michael Cohen. So its been a really interesting day. Trump has definitely seemed to be asleep for parts of it, but awake for others and sending notes back and forth with his lawyer. The jury has been sort of on and off in terms of their attention, but i think mr. Blanche, i think the best case for the defense is hes setting himself up for a brilliant summation. But whether or not the crossexamination is telling its own story i think is harder to say. Rachel, im curious, i was in the Overflow Room. Even though i have a deadon view of donald trump, i dont see the jury. I have a deadon view of Michael Cohen, but dont see the jury. I want to ask you a couple questions. One is, when Michael Cohen came in, just the way they both moved, it seemed like for a moment donald trump at least looked at him or referred to him, although most of the time, again, looking at that headon shot, he had his eyes closed a lot to day when he wasnt talking directly to his lawyers or whatever. And also, weve talked a lot here on this program about the jury and how sometimes Michael Cohen seemed to be speaking directly to them. So im curious about the interaction between trump and cohen, but also between cohen and the jury. Reporter from where i am sitting, i cant see much interaction between trump and cohen. I can see them both individually. Its possible theres some some dynamic happening between them, but it sort of seems like theyre each in their own little world. I dont sense a lot of eye contact or anything going on between the two of them. Michael cohen, when hes being closely questioned by blanche and in a very different tone but also closely questioned by the prosecutor on redirect, hes focused intently, i think as you would have to be, on those questions because obviously in the case of todd blanche hes trying to trip him up. You have to make sure that doesnt happen. Any time Michael Cohen has a little breathing room, an answer where he gets time to explain himself, he does direct his energy to the jury and theyre watching him very closely. Go ahead. I was wondering. When i was there last week, when the jury walked in, rachel, they never looked at donald trump. They would walk in, look ahead of themselves. The second theyd pass trump, theyd look down. What did you get when they were filing in and out and their interaction with the former president . Reporter it seems like they are there to do the peoples business, and they are taking this seriously and theyre focused and not sort of Playing Reindeer Games as far as anybody staring anybody down in the courtroom. Honestly, nobody is. I think this jury is being taxed in terms of their ability to sustain interest in what often feels like arcane and plotless not badgering, but sort of pecking at the witness in the case of Michael Cohen. If you dont know why it matters, if its not obvious to a layman why it would matter whether or not Michael Cohen had closer to 12 calls or closer to 20 calls with at t in 2017, then hearing the 11th Question on that point, it is taxing in terms of focusing. You can see jurors nobody is doing Anything Performative or theatrical. You can see jurors kind of, doing this, kind of looking out into the room or trying to find Something Else to keep their attention while trumps Defense Counsel is trying to pound away at cohen. They did try to build a little bit of a dramatic crescendo at the end of the crossexamination. I think it was a big missed punch, basically. Blanch basically trying to get cohen to admit that he had a financial interest in this case and cohen i think very strongly peried that, i have a financial interest in this case because i talk about it on my podcast. Do i have a financial interest on whether or not he gets convicted . No, i dont. Probably its better for me if he doesnt because i can keep talking about it. Blanche maybe thought he had embarrassed him. It completely obviated blanches point and landed really in cohens favor at the end of that. Theyre trying to build drama, but i think cohen essentially outfoxed them. I dont know if that backs up the impression we had from reading this narration written by our great colleagues in the Overflow Room. In reading it, you dont have the affect. It certainly seems with a few exceptions today and most notably on thursday that its very disbursive crossexamination, its here, there, no narrative thread. It seems youre not building a story for the jury of what happened. I dont know if thats your impression as well. I think thats right. I think thats right. Thats what i mean by, i think the best interpretation of whats happening for the defense is they may be building toward a great summation. I dont know if you watch the british baking show the greatest show on television. Reporter exactly. You have all the ingredients out. You dont know what theyre going to make, at the end maybe this is going to come together as an amazing recipe in the summation. As has been presented thus far, the crossexamination of Michael Cohen thus far is the defenses case, and it is thus far a Splatter Painting of stuff that doesnt connect and tell a narrative. They dont need to tell a narrative, they dont need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt any connection for the events in issue. They need to poke holes in the prosecutions case. They do need to hold the jurys interest and taking up their time for a reason. There are very few moments where i think todd blanche in his defense is saying a thing that seems to mean a thing to the jury. He may do the worlds greatest the defense team may do the worlds greatest summation that brings it altogether, but at the moment, its disper sive, sprawling and uninteresting. The jury is the last group to come into the courtroom. Everybody is already seated and they rise when the jury comes in. I wonder if you got any sense of whether they looked over to the people that were accompanying donald trump to the courthouse today . Any glances over at Alan Dershowitz and company . Youre definitely seeing youre seeing a lot of i notice jurors looking out into the courtroom in general. Whether or not they were focusing on trumps entourage is hard to tell. I will say as an observer in the courtroom, the entourage is colorful. The hells angels leader is a very large man wearing a very flamboyant suit with a Big Dyed Black Pompadour and huge gaudy jewelry on