Transcripts For MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes 20240829 : vim

Tonight on all in. We are going to walked onto the capitol. Donald trump indited all over again. This time for the same crime using the same charges. Conspiring to defraud the United States, conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and conspiring and attempting to obstruct an official proceeding. Tonight, what special counsel jack smith presented to a new grand jury and what it means for the prosecution. With a fresh indictment for the republican nominee, the Harris Campaign run against trump. Why not debater . They already know everything. Georgia and beyond. What we are learning about attempts to subvert the election this time around when all in starts now. Good evening from miami, i am katie phang in for chris hayes. We are 70 days out from election day. Just 10 days away from mail in ballots things sent out in some states in the republican nominee for president was just indited all over again. For trying to steal the last election. Earlier today, special counsel jack smith unveiled a new Superseding Indictment of donald trump. A brandnew grand jury of americans impaneled to hear the case against the expresident for the first time and once again a grand jury came to the conclusion that criminal charges charges against trump from when the doj brought them one year ago. Clearly took efforts to comply with the brought new rules of president ial immunity the Supreme Court repented in its ruling last month. Namely that the chief excite can act with total impunity when it comes to socalled official acts. For instance, by noting that trump coconspirators were not government officials and they were acting in, quote, a private capacity when they attempted to subvert a free and fair election. This indictment highlights the fact that trumps infamous january 6 really at the ellipse in washington where he incited the violent mob to storm the capitol with, quote, a Campaign Speech at a privately funded , privately organized political rally rather than an official act of the president of the United States. In other words, trump may still up in president at the time, but he was not acting as the president when he attempted a coup. Now, this latest filing is obviously an attempt by smith to get ahead of any attempt by trump to have the case dismissed which actually happened in another case last month when trumpappointed judge Aileen Cannon dismissed smiths classified documents case against trump, a decision that smiths office is appealing. And, of course, none of this would be necessary in the first place if chief Justice John Roberts and his majority on the Supreme Court did not invent a brandnew standard for president ial immunity with no actual basis in constitutional law in the first place. In a clip of a new interview released today, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson who dissented in that Immunity Case shared her concerns. And your dissent you wrote the court declared for the first time in history the most powerful official in the United States can, under circumstances to be determined, become a law unto himself. It sounds like a warning. Well, i mean, that was my view of what the court determined. You are concerned about broad immunity . I was concerned about a system that appeared to provide immunity for one individual under one set of circumstances when we have a criminal Justice System they had ordinarily treated everyone the same. To be clear, donald trump will not face trial in this d. C. Election interference case or any case before novembers election and, of course, he is running. Hes running to get the entire thing thrown out should he win. Barbara mcquade served as u. S. Attorney for the Eastern District of michigan and she is a professor of law at the university of michigan. Lynn kershner a former prosecutor for the district of columbia and they both join me now. I couldnt think of better folks for joining me tonight to get us started. I dont know about you, did you expect the Superseding Indictment for jack smith at this time . No i really didnt. What i thought he would do is peer down the indictment filing an amended indictment to comply with the courts order. The court said the scheme relating to the Justice Department was official contact and had to come out because a prosecutor can remove language from an indictment without going back to the grand jury, but if you change any of the allegations and put any new material in, you must go back to grand jury and have them return the indictment. Here, as you point out, they have reframed the case even though not much is different. The first words of this are not donald trump was a 45th president of the United States but it now says donald trump was a candidate for president in 2020. It frames it in all these instances is a candidate for office as opposed to a president engaging in official conduct. Throughout the indictment, you will see not only the removal of some of these allegations about the Justice Department but the addition of some language now to reframe it, another example, mike pence is described as a Vice President but also as the president of the senate who has the power to certify the election. Those kinds of things require superseding now that i see it, i can see why its a good move but i did not anticipate it. Glenn, its not just as barb notes, deletion of people and maybe some of the allegations, its the beefing up of the allegations to make sure it comports with what the u. S. Supreme court was insisting had to happen after they horrific Immunity Ruling we got last month. It seems like longer than that, july 1. Lets talk, no new arraignments for donald trump with the Superseding Indictment . He doesnt have to come back to court . The reporting is that jack smith said they are not going to demand the defendant, donald trump, presence and the judge can accept the waiver of a defendants presence had an arraignment. Donald trump has been arraigned a number of times and i guess he doesnt have to come to all of his arraignments. It makes sense you wont bucktown washington, d. C. Donald trump brought into Federal Court arraigned in a fiveminute hearing and on his merry way. I agree that you called the Supreme Court absolute Immunity Ruling horrific. Constitutional scholar said that Supreme Court has declared parts of the Constitution Unconstitutional Which is extraordinarily problematic and something that needs to be addressed. Like barb, wasnt expecting a superseding and indictment but heres the brilliance. Jack smith was proactive. He adjusted. He looked at the indictment and tried to pull out the offending language that might run afoul of the Supreme Courts absolute Immunity Ruling. Weirded down from 45 pages to 36 pages, but what i was waiting for and i thought it would come as a result of hearings before judge chutkan, was waiting to see if jack smith believed that in the wake of the absolute Immunity Ruling from the Supreme Court some of the charges would have to go away. Its his considered opinion as evidenced by the Superseding Indictment that all four charges remain viable, provable, and hes going to proceed to trial on all four charges and thats a good day for the prospect of accountability. Barb, in order to get to a jury of his peers, donald trump will have to survive a motion to dismiss denial by 10 eight. Judge chutkan. We had an original version of the indictment. It survived a motion to dismiss by donald trump that was filed in front of judge chutkan. Its the same judge. The same indictment went to the d. C. Circuit court of appeals had survived attack by trump there. It was only the Supreme Court that the damage, if any, to the indictment but what we are hearing maybe there wasnt damage. One of the questions ive been asked from others is, why no new codefendant in this case . Its only case in indictment donald trump had where he was facing the charges by his lonesome. In fact, if there were to be a Superseding Indictment, wouldve thought that would be the reason to do it. We got those unindicted Co Conspirators remaining in the indictment. One has been removed. Speculation is that person who is now out of the case was Jeffrey Clark who was a Justice Department official who came close to being the acting Attorney General. He is out because they conduct is official conduct. The others remain. Speculation being Rudy Giuliani and john eastman and some of the others. Those five unindicted Co Conspirators are still there. I speculated that the reason they were not named as defendants and were referred to as unindicted coconspirators was to streamline the case or perhaps it could go to trial before the election. Now we know thats not possible, its a little curious that they still have not included and named them as defendants. I dont know the reason. Perhaps some are cooperating or perhaps they want to keep their focus on donald trump. I dont know the reason. The prior reason to streamline the case and get it on the calendar quickly no longer seems to be whats driving it. Glenn, lets talk next steps in the process. A lot of us were waiting for an evidentiary hearing are hearing of sorts to be ordered by judge chutkan in advance of any type of motion. Can we anticipate donald trump filing a motion to dismiss this version, Superseding Indictment . Can we expect once the motion to dismiss is denied that the evidentiary could still take place . They could. I think Donald Trumps motions to dismiss will come early and often and they will be rejected by the judge one after another. I think we will see some kind of a hearing whether its evidentiary hearing where you have some of the Many Republican witnesses who testified before the grand jury about Donald Trumps crimes, whether they take the stand in a public courtroom for its time by proffer where the parties offer, this is what the evidence is and this is why we think it survives are trumps lawyers will say it does not survive in the Supreme Court Immunity Ruling. We are going to see those hearings conducted and we will probably learn more about some of the evidence that was presented to the grand jury that led to regular citizens sitting at the conscious of the community and grand jury indicted donald trump not only the first time but a brandnew grand jury doing it again a second time and issuing the Superseding Indictment. Barbara mcquade in glenn kirschner, thank you for getting us started. Coming up. The new tactics of the Democratic Campaign successfully goading trump into a debate. Thats next. T. Aaaah with flonase, allergies dont have to be scary. Spray Flonase Sensimist daily, for nondrowsy, longlasting relief. In a scentfree, fine mist. Psst psst flonase. All good. With both Party Conventions behind us, we are officially in the final stretch before november 5. In the midst of all of this, special counsel jack smith filed a new Superseding Indictment against donald trump in his attempts to steal the last election. Its unclear how this would impact the polls, with only 70 days before the election, things remain remarkably close. A5 38 polling averages Kamala Harris leading donald trump by 3. 5 points nationally while many of the key Battleground States are in a dead heat. Harris maintains a bit of a three point edge in michigan and wisconsin while arizona, georgia, nevada, North Carolina, and pennsylvania are effectively tied. Harris and walz will head to georgia tomorrow to kick off a two tape us to work culminating in a rally in savannah on thursday while trump will hold a Wisconsin Rally On Thursday and pennsylvania a rally there on friday. In the meantime, his Vice President ial nominee j. D. Vance is scheduled to hold events of his own in the same states tomorrow. At least for now, it really does feel like the Harris Walz Campaign has momentum on its side because in large part democrats are taking the offensive in a way they have not in recent campaign cycles. Harris and walz are effectively trolling trump, vance, and other maga republicans like this Video Calling at the former president were trying to back out of next months schedule debate. Why not debater . Because they already know everything. Right now, say why should i do a debate . Im leading in the polls and Everybody Knows her and knows me. When i looked at the hostility of that for his part, donald trump now says that that the be scheduled for september 10 is back on. Its impossible to deny that trump has been off his game. As the Washington Post recently reported, drumbeats have struggled to keep their candidate focused and energized with trump, quote, often appearing reluctant to hold events or to stay on message. That said, he managed to find the time to cut this at to share with his followers on his social media platform. Hello, everyone. This is your favorite President Donald Trump with some very exciting news. By popular demand im doing a new series of trump Digital Trading cards. You know what they are. Weve had a lot of fun with them. Its called the America First collection. 50 all new stunning Digital Trading cards. Its really something. These cards show me dancing and holding bit coins. Each trading card has an we thought tech piece of my suit that i work for the president ial debate of people are calling it the knock out suit. I dont know about that but thats what they are calling it. Its easy to buy. You need an Email Address or credit card or crypto. They call me the crypto president. I dont know if thats true but a lot of people are saying that. If nothing else, that is a clear indication of where Donald Trumps priorities are at a time monies rapidly losing ground with voters, he still found the time to try to graft a few more dollars from his supporters. A veteran democratic strategist and Stuart Stevens worked as a political strategist on republican campaigns and Senior Adviser for the Blinken Project and they both join me now. Gentlemen, i had to take a moment after that last one before i started with you. Id like to start with you. Theres this incredible messaging thats coming from the Harris Walz Campaign and one issue thats always top of mind to voters is the economy. Take a listen to a little do at that came out from harris walz about an opportunity economy. Every day across our nation, families talk about their plans for the future. They talk about how they will achieve it financially and prices are too high. When im elected president i will make it a top priority to bring down costs. We should be doing everything we can to make it more affordable to buy a home. Under my plan, more than 100 million americans will get a tax cut. Its incredibly refreshing. There is policy. Never knew it existed if you listen to the republican camp. There is policy coming out from the democratic party. There is policy but theres also values underlying the. Who shes going to fight for and the i. D. Of that opportunity economy. Weve been throwing around ÷hat word a lot but she leans into the optimism and the upbeat of hit. Frankly, i think much of this is in the vein of what you see from leaders on the left and right. She is giving optimism and hope the way reagan did Once Upon A Time In America when he declared on his reelection and americans are leaning into that. Part of the energy you find building around this campaign is, my goodness, americans want something to cheer for. They want to be hopeful and optimistic again and shes giving that to rally around. We may feel the good, joy vibe but Kamala Harris doesnt suffer fools. We saw in the lead up to the interview, that was a great ad. The clucking of the Chicken Everything the lack of courage from donald trump. Its like a play taken out of the Blinken Project<