And in the other corner are republicans too cowardly to admit it. Let's start with dick cheney who made shock waves when he said he would vote for kamala harris over donald trump. He justified his support saying in our nation's 248 year history there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our republic than donald trump. He can never be trusted with power again. Cheney of course joined the ranks of notable republicans who have vowed to support harris just like his daughter liz cheney and adam kinsingger. Republicanswho dare speak out against trump have been ostracized. That is why moderate republicans are hoping trump loses and loses big. Some of the republicans wishing for a trump loss include long standing gop figures throughout the nation who bleed red and wouldn't dare to say this publicly but who are more than ready to move on from the trump era. One conservative lawmaker told politico there is a lot of anxiety about what trump does to republican ability to win in 2028 and what he also may do to the party in terms of policy long term. So jonathan martin who spoke with these republicans floats another option making the round. Speed up the expresident's departure from the scene with a trump win so he can only serve one more term and be done for certain in 2028. Now, there are a few problems with this hopeful if not delusional way of thinking. First, if he loses there is nothing to suggest he won't run again for a fourth term in 2028 with the support of his massive maga base, but secondly, even if he wins and term limits determine he step aside four years from now, you can't simply move on from the version of the party that he has transformed in his image. Something that has taken years to do. So turning the page on the era requires more than trump failing to get an electoral vote majority. Turning the page on the energy trump leveraged is trickier. With me, jason staley. How fascists rewrite the past to control the future. And also, michelle goldberg is with us. You have written about fascism and how fascism doesn't go away easily. Some argue we are on the cusp of fascism and one of the problems with the logic is assuming he winning is based on the fact you would think after four years he leaves when he has given us every indication this will be the last election for president in this country if he wins. That's right. So this whole for certain gone by 2028 is absurd. When i'm in ukraine, ukrainians tell me it is not just putin. It is the russian people. And i feel something as similar here. It is not just trump. It's the republican party. The republican party has an authoritarianism problem. There are politicians in the republican party who now have seen you can transform america into an autocracy and they might be the ones to do it. That's why they attack vote voting and say america is not a democracy. When people think of dictators they think of maybe north korea or iraq. But there are these hybrid authoritarian dictatorships that have emerged we have learned from. Places like turkey, hungary. And that could be more of what american authoritarianism under donald trump looks like. Certainly. And the gop loves viktor orban. They invite him to events and celebrate him. But the gop is so far, they lost dick cheney. Fabricating weapons of mass destruction. This guy is a bridge too far. Doesn't matter if trump goes or wins or loses. These guys are outliers. The gop is dead. It should rename itself. They are gone. Trump should change it to the trump party. Come on. It is his win that day. Never had a political party like this in the modern era. It is an autocratic party. A fascist party. How can republicans move away from trump when as dean was saying that trumpism is now so infused in their party with their culture that it is just impossible to separate the two? there is no republican party beyond trump? so i'm not convinced he is going to be the candidate in 2028. You think there is a moment at which a desperation to win sets in. Whether it's a majority of the party, i can't say. But i think the party would be transformed by a loss against the candidate that they regard as imminently beatle. Beatable. Trump is showing the religious right, leaders of the religious right who are very unhappy with his rhetorical shifting language on abortion, they are threatening. There will be a problem with energy and turnout. I don't necessarily think that is true. And i think they don't have the kind of polls on the voters. If trump loses, they would have an incentive to spin it as he didn't motivate the base and from now on, we need candidates who double down on the party's commitment to banning abortion. I think michelle is making a smart nuanced argument. My only issue is they are a lot of cowards in the republican party not willing to stand up to trump now. They are not going to be like you lost a few times. It will take some kind of change in the culture of the republican party to stand up to this phenomenon. Another person will come in and replace trump with the same culture of fear and intimidation. Donald trump jr. Right. When you think about that, though, the role he has assumed within the party, a huge advocate for jd vance to get the vice presidential nod. Trump's daughterinlaw is now heading the rnc. So the nepotism, the coopting of the republican party. The heir apparent emerges and takes over. Given that trump has already been president, everything is possible. We have a party that is entirely designed, a personalist party designed around one person. And of course, the situation with that is what happens when that person goes? so, presumably, some other person emerged to play that role. That is why you have democracy to avoid the replacement of the leader. Potentially if trump loses you are arguing that he would be cast aside? some republicans would say you are not winning, you have been losing now several times but would that just mean the next iteration of trumpism whether it is a jd vance, maybe not a desantis, because he lost this round, but certainly a don jr. Maybe a hard core trumpet? i think if we had to guess. That's the one place where there is some tension in the party. Trump has such a charismatic hold over the voters that he can get away with deviations from the ideology of some of the party's activists. I think that will be the scapegoat if he loses. If the vice president kamala harris wins the presidency, becomes again, a history making president as the first woman, that would also unleash a very dark chapter in america. Let's be honest. Look, this gop, it's not about policy. And we know, everyone on this panel knows it. It is not taking america back to a time before the civil rights act. Before the voting rights act. That is what trump was promising. Even in the debate on tuesday. Do you want to go back to the time of white power, or do you want to be a multiracial democracy going forward? we live in the real world. This election decide it is future. Are we going backwards, further right, forward with a nation that is multiracial democracy? please stick around. We have a lot more to get to. We want to share with you breaking news we are getting this hour coming out of kentucky. There are reports of another active shooter situation on interstate 75 in laurel county. That is just north of the city of london. Again, that is taking place in kentucky. The sheriff's office confirming the active shooter situation on facebook and they say that numerous people have been shot. That is a quote. Governor andy beshear issuing a statement as well confirming a portion of i75 has been shut down in both directions. He confirms the kentucky office. We learn firstdegree atf is responding to this active shooter situation underway in laurel county. We will keep an eye on development and report back foothill you during the course of the hour. Right after this quick break, the influencers who were duped by russia to promote kremlin propaganda and sway your vote. Stay with us. Your vote. Stay with us. With arexvy. Arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd and certain other conditions. But i'm protected. Arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. () arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. Those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. The most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. Arexvy is number one in rsv vaccine shots. Rsv? make it arexvy. In the wayborhood, every delivery is a treat. One pistachio for you, sir. One strawberry poof, please. Oh. Enjoy it. Oh, poofect. Bye waybor. Something minty? of course, it's a large. [ gasps ] a double. Lucky. wayfair. Every style. Every home. what tractor supply customers experience is personalized service. Made possible by tmobile for business. With tmobile's reliable 5g business internet. Employees get the information they need instantly. This is how business goes further with tmobile for business. Pete g. Writes, my tween wants a new phone. How do i not break the bank? we gotcha, pete. Xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. So you get high speeds for low prices. Better than getting low speeds for high prices. Right, bruce? jealous? yeah, look at that. Honestly, someone get a helmet on this guy. Get a free unlimited line for a year when you buy one unlimited line. Plus, get up to $800 off google pixel 9 phones. Switch today! this is psychotic. Ukraine is the enemy of this country. Ukraine is our enemy being funded by the democrats. I will stress again. One of the greatest enemies of our nation right now is ukraine. Wow, that was tim poole. A conservative influencer with 1. 3 million subscribers on youtube. What you heard right there, well, sounds a lot like russian propaganda and it turns out, according to u. S. Prosecutors, he was actually duped into being a kremlin mouthpiece. A bomb shell indictment this week alleged that a media company linked to six conservative influencers including poole was secretly funded by russian state media employees to churn out english language videoers. They are accuse of laundering money to fund a con ten creation company. That company now identified as tenant media took the money and commissioned people like poole to make videos like the one we just showed you. Paying them up to $100,000 per video. They were paid to make videos with subject matter with amplifying divisions. Joining me now to discuss this is clint watts, msnbc national security analyst and author of messing with the enemy. The influencers say they were unaware of the motivations of the company that was paying them. But this supposed covert operation to get influencers to peddle russian propaganda was thinly veiled. Russia was so brazen here. Hey, let's just pay these influencers as much as we can to tell them, to say what we want them to say. Eight years ago, they could pose as americans on social media. Today they just can't do that. And we have seen that with my team just in several different ways. They need to get a u. S. Audience. They can't do it. Now how do they do it when rt has been sanctioned. They just, the lines they were reading are exactly what you would hear if you were listening to vladimir putin talk on any given day. You know, what is important about this, it is really three parts. After the russians invaded ukraine, still up to a lot of activity and do a lot of covert activity, that goes to the second part. This is the following group of the kgb that vladimir putin worked for setting up a cyber group that posed as if it was doing cyber attacks but really just trying to scare audiences and a third part which is a group known as doppelgdnger which mimics real news outlets. It could be msnbc, bbc, whatever it is around the world. They take fake stories and put real logos on them. A sweeping number of indictments. It is also, it is quite remarkable when you think of how the threat matrix is changing. What has not changed since 2016 is this clear intent by russia to meddle in our affairs. That is indisputable. And here is the interesting thing. After this indictment calm down, putin couldn't help himself. Watch this. If we can name a favorite candidate, it used to be joe biden. That is what we are going to do. He made a sound that donald trump was tough on russia. His preference was he wanted vice president harris to win because donald trump was just too harsh on vladimir putin with the sanctions. What does this say? it is denial and deception. It is always about pushing one thing in one direction. When you are going in another. So, any time you hear we saw it with the invasion of ukraine in 2022. What is remarkable is the intent is constant. 2016, 2024, there was one constant. Creating a policy shift. Winning through the force of politics one thing they are are struggling with is video. If there is any shift. Nobody reads tweets or looks at facebook posts now and gets duped in the same way. What do you do if you are the russian troll farm? you have to hire somebody to do it or make some preposterous videos. They are not landing the same way. So hats off to the u. S. Government for what they did this round. We have about 45 seconds left. How is their capability different than russia? can the u. S. Government be suitably prepared? the big change is equally likely i think between now and election day to beat russia or iran if there is an aggressive interference effort come voting day. The reason is, they are smaller, but they are much more aggressive and they use cyber attacks and leak operations. The way we have seen the russians do, they don't endure the way we see with social media. So we should be very careful. 50/50 chance it is iran versus russia. And it could be either one. And they are pursuing similar objectives in some cases and different policies and candidates in others. Clint, thank you so much. It is great to get your insight on this important conversation. We will continue to watch up until the election. Up next,