Conflict and if youre watching us in the u. K. Or islands renegade looks at the media manipulation. Hello and welcome the crosstalk for all Things Considered on Peter Lavelle who would have thought thirteen russians three times and some cash could impact an american president ial elections this is where russia gate stands today also more twists and turns in the messy conflict known as syria. Crossed talking those thirteen russians im joined by my guest mark sloboda hes an International Affairs and and security. We also have alexander me curious he is a writer on Legal Affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com and dimitri bobbitt shes a political analyst with international as always gentlemen crosslike rules of effect that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate lets go to those thirteen russians three entities and all that cash maybe not so much because i was and youve been writing about it from a legal perspective give us your major take of the first point is that of course none of these people are going to be tried so mr miller has prepared a very complicated portentously worded indictment which is never going to be tested because there is no extradition is an extradition brought the russians are not going to extradite these people they get to stay in russia sees doesnt have to prove any of the things that he has said what seems to have happened is that some of these people have gauged in trolling on the internet and theyve done things which lets be straight forward. Mr myler not unheard of her not on her blog. And not just specifically to rush as if it were actually nothing new here at all i mean anybody who goes on the internet comes across trolls what most has done is he wants to prove that there is this vast intricate dangerous conspiracy hes put all this together hes labeled the Internet Agency and petersburg is responsible and he strolled around to various laws that he can stick offenses against these people essentially what this was if you read the indictment what this was a commercial market thing is what it was in and even the indictment itself admits that it was pro and trump. Hillary clinton and for everything in between i mean theres no specific political for her to it theres no connections out or theres not even any allege any connections between this. Supposed company which is run by a guy who is known as putin chef because he ran a catering business but before and it is this that is even if theyre catering business is for Russian School she was also although its a lot of old food you know it was just in the middle media so in russia there labeled him that and theres no connections at all to the russian government theres no connections at all to the trumpet ministration the trunk campaign or any of the other four people one completely unrelated and you know spurious charges that we all are has towards any of the other four people who have been died on tax charges so anything else so we have four indictments before this now we have these indictments of thirteen individuals ever betray the three entities and none of them have any any. With the russian government or with any or the trumpet will campaign. Or any of the delusion at least its an offer that they were russians they were lively interest thousand and sixteen and they posted something on facebook that americans could see it doesnt matter that ninety five percent of the european media was very broad hillary during that campaign and americans could read millions of pages of their stuff during the campaign thats not important what is important is that these thirty russians did it well let me. Make this various called. Bloomberg he is a writer for bloomberg he used to be a deeper all russian journalist knowledge he leaves a broad writes about russia just like Marsha Gessen the difference is that he knows a thing or two about russian history and literature i like much i guess so heres what he wrote i think shed be surprised i havent been indicted i am russian i was in the u. S. In two thousand and sixteen and they published coolum screed a couple of both clinton and trump without registering as a russian h ok that goes to my next Point Alexander given what we just heard from my. Then christopher. Steele should be indicted as well hes a foreigner he wasnt registered as a Foreign Agent he didnt. Report to the federal Election Commission about what he was doing. This is a glaring this is a lie you dont know anything that we already got a confession according to the actual terms of Dimitri Babich is the unnamed fourteen yes because people like the description if you read the indictment there could be a very possible going to get really let me go back to the. Deal because i think its really important so the questions being answered i mean all the things that people have been in full Christopher Steele has done he has lost to the f. B. I. He is into feet in the us election he has done so secretly he has been phoning up new spaces he has been publishing information in adults the. Only forty eight he hasnt registered theres any kind of Foreign Agent so why hasnt he been indicted why is the resistance on the phone to the Justice Department to undone this is probably what i find most puzzling of all alexander is the trumps own d. O. J. And f. B. I. Maybe its a slightly different situation with the f. B. I. With the d. O. J. Why isnt it moving there that was a mystery to me because its the troops ok that answers the truck doesnt have every move talked about it plenty of time to this before trump has no power of his own administration hes hes certainly given away foreign and military policy his own Justice Department is is pursuing him and you know this cabal of generals mcmaster maddest mcmasters and kelly keeps him in a little playpen and you know his only real power is tweeting and i dont like hes not allowed to do that whenever he wants as well well i mean its its an attempt to you almost one thousand sane trade legislation twenty First Century is related to the addict i mean in the Nineteenth Century maybe it was illegal to bring in pamphlets in favor of vinyl that came to. During the campaign now we live with them electronically interconnected what if i want my american friends to read my opinion trump all wrong i just posted on the internet i portico because he doesnt know twitter doesnt know borders makes you a criminal exactly but it makes me a criminal if that is a misstatement ok well lets talk about election meddling a couple of days ago on the. Program the former head of the cia james was leagues on and she asked a few questions about his reaction to the indictments and then she talked about election meddling but American Election meddling abroad lets take a look have we ever tried to meddle in other countrys elections oh probably. It was for the good of the system in order to avoid the communists from coming over for example in europe. In forty seven forty eight forty nine the greeks and italians we dont do that we dont mess around other people. Only for very good you dont do that through. Our good viewers that was the former head of the cia who wants to go first. Let me speak about here western media speaks about the former head of the cia a former cia could know you know if we use that language to use a boat. Ok maybe a general form of the freedom caught up to that who set it to so since mr boucher also to mr mubarak were coming after you which was actually true you know and hes not mad that hes not interfering in other countrys elections you know just somehow i think i just want to come to. Ukraine was the the crown jewel i mean looking for regime illegal change there i wanted to react to that because you know they both chuckled. I mean that for me thats a jar dropping you know you youre accusing a foreign country and a very powerful one russia of doing something against your country without any evidence whatsoever beyond a troll farm ok and there is ample evidence mountains of evidence the United States medals in elections and has for decades and its probably doing so exactly right now. When i was in greece in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight when that was. He refers to greece. I was actually taken prisoner at the age of six and the people who carried out the u. S. Back to the house where we used to live was taken over by a family from the u. S. Embassy so its not actually such a long time funny thing well i mean is it not i mean if you look at the entire segment is it you know if the u. S. Does it its ok with anybody else does it isnt ok thats the double standard ok if you could very with me a little bit im going to run for a little bit of literature i know youre prepared i know you are right so this is about the projection from the u. S. On to other countries like russia of what it does the guardian revealed u. S. Spy operation that manipulates social media this is from two thousand and eleven the u. S. Military the pentagon is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas the influence internet conversations and spread proamerican propaganda and it specifically notes that the discovery that the u. S. Military is doing this with fake online personalities sock puppets could also encourage other governments private corporations and government organizations are going to also hear that we there was a program with twitter and they did does the same thing with these of a q but bear in mind this is this is the u. S. Message from what weve just heard alleged theres no connection to the next one more one more minute before you read g h c q. This is the british version of the National Security agency does the same thing overwhelming evidence. That we have a database from Carnegie Mellon using the us governments own data theyve meddled in other elections eighty one times only up to two thousand not counting coups and regime changes and of course the famous how could we forget this picture of Time Magazine russia the americans openly helped yeltsin in a rigged election keep our yanks to the rescue they were quite proud about their meddling back then they even made a movie spinning boris congratulating the one hundred ninety six million eighty six dont forget the bald face you know well i think its just a question case over double standards you know but you know that its interesting to be right but they dont see it that way they cant see this far away from their face when it comes to issues like this well you know the problem is also with oh elite you know the response of rush and he is usually you are using office in your internal struggle well for the time that terry and i do it would you with global explorations which is no rein in the United States there is little difference between foreign and domestic policy and your Foreign Policy is part of your domestic importance so you know they were trying to take on their differences when you go to a short break and after that short break well continue what a question of those thirteen russian state with are to. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business im show business ill see you then. Ive played for many clubs over the years so i know the game inside out. Football isnt only about what happens on the pitch put the final school its about the passion from the fans its the age of the superman each of killian erroneous and spending two hundred twenty million on one player. Its an experience like nothing else on to because i want to share what i think what i know about the beautiful guy a great so well more transfer. And thinks this minute. Sir i want to do it. Very very clear. The way your. Son what do you how. Do you. Come to mind if. I want to measure. Welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing some real news. All right gentlemen lets switch gears here and go back to serious go back to the middle east. Last couple of days we had secretary of state Rex Tillerson in ankara trying to smooth some feathers i mean both countries have realized that there is a crisis point here after a three hour meeting with the turkish president. Theres the impression they believe some kind of agreement was made i dont get that impression the way it was what was released here what was the point of the meeting and what is the main bone of contention here because this is these are nato allies and theyre going toe to toe no to know is in a country syria were neither one. Of them should be this was obviously true for washington to hold her guns hands tried to reassure him it was there over there are being of the y. P. G. On turkish border. Its the kurds and owning a a large chunk basically claiming as it of their own of syrian territory again much of it right on the turkish and and the iraqi border. So turkey is extremely upset about this there were these optics didnt do much because even as tillerson was arriving there was the announcement that the pentagon is going to be giving another five hundred fifty Million Dollars this year to arm and otherwise support these forces that hes very insistent on but there has to be a Tipping Point here demas i mean everyone is and is invested enormously in this operation here all of the branch unbelievably its called the range of the invasion of the invasion of syria here i mean and the United States is not making it very its saying the pentagon is saying it will stay in syria indefinitely against International Law here something has to go one way or another well what happened was that the stacy indeed kind of provoked into moving and thats was that was said by all foreign minister Sergey Lavrov who said because of the support of the kurds a lot of the kurds and you know these Border Security forces the americans started talking about them and they didnt tell the turks didnt exactly provoke or provided a pretense and basically i dont even understand why mr to us on this talking to god because god has been saying the same thing says to him dont know about the United States in the last two weeks he accused the United States off helping terrorists you know so you can see how desperately the u. S. Is trying to preserve its relationship with turkey and its. In the background of this is that we have an upcoming meeting in istanbul with iran turkey and russia it seems to me. Is basically checking out the terrain here ok because the United States is certainly not going to quote you are not cooperating in this regard when it comes to the kurds theyd it seems to me its patently obvious that the u. S. Wants a statelet it wants a partition of the israelis wanted the saudis are. Looking for it and they want their own and they and we have to look at the occupied territory where the u. S. Has if this is where the gas fields are for syria again no money for reconstruction ok so everyone is looking at the horizon and i think hes looking for maybe hes going into the grand bazaar go ahead these are two equally invasions of syria to nato allies which are working at the moment at cross purposes theyre both dangerous for syria and i think that is an important point to remember as for him he has to try and balance the fact that hes now in conflict with the United States so he is now trying to get some kind of arrangement with the russians and the ukrainians to try and balance out the agnelli the usa being what he proposes that the turks and merican and Work Together militarily when the americans are in bed with the kurds i mean thats not going to. Get out and this is the problem at the same time that hes trying to leverage the russians against the americans hes trying to use the americans to leverage against the russians so that he can extract concessions in syria can which exactly hes just maybe a right to do it was just a few days ago when the reports about the turkish army using chemical weapons. Appeared what was the reaction from the spokesperson for the u. S. Led coalition. But the u. S. Coalition has no information of this before when there were there was just a rumor about the Syrian Government using chemical weapons immediately they had was that while they have they have. And a lot of rhetoric for something that never ever happened and they didnt even to send inspectors there that they were so sure that this information was correct went to turkey somehow they preferred to be silent is the interesting thing to mark is that we have to look at the internal dynamics of turkey and everyones perceived american stance is very popular domestically for him so this is again another part of the spectrum that hes playing i mean he first of all he accused the u. S. Of a coup trying to overthrow his government u. S. Back to under the bed probably the only coup that i believe the u. S. Hasnt been in recent times but its an enormously popular with his islamist based and. The base is as long as that on top of that hes turned his country into basically the whole day resort for all of the jihadi across the world who are been barking into syria for the last six years if he suddenly god doesnt about face turns away from al qaeda turns away from regime change in syria hes got to deal with them on his own sort of the is there any also house you deal with. Again going back to this. Meeting with the ball with the iranians the russians and the turks is that. What everyone is doing is want to make sure that hes part of some kind of Peace Process were two countries russia and iran can play a forceful role an instrumental role because the United States is the spoiler ok its the spoil