Transcripts For RT CrossTalk 20240713 : vimarsana.com

RT CrossTalk July 13, 2024

Diplomat and former advisor to the u. S. Says james jatra soon watch and hes a former u. S. Diplomat and former advisor to the u. S. Senate Republican Leadership in plymouth we have he is the executive editor of the news that Republican Leadership in plymouth we have he is the executive editor of the news website 21st century wired dot com and in norman we cross to Joshua Landis he website 21st century wired dot com and in norman we cross to Joshua Landis he is director of the center of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma all right gentlemen he is director of the center of middle east studies at the university of oklahoma all right gentlemen cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate joshua let me go to you 1st talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate joshua let me go to you 1st in norman all across the globe we have iraq we have we have lebanon in norman all across the globe we have iraq we have we have lebanon we have. Lee we have many other places around the world plus we have the whole have chile we have many other places around the world plus we have the whole division over braggs it in the u. K. We have the division in the United States has a lot of asian over braggs it in the u. K. We have the division in the United States theres a lot of instability out there but i want to talk about the specific country of lebanon just to start it off here instability out there but i want to talk about the specific country of lebanon just to start it off here a lot of people say that it is the bellwether for the region what happens there a lot of people say that it is the bellwether for the region what happens there 1st is an indication of what possibly and probably will happen in a number of other kind or 1st is an indication of what possibly and probably will happen in a number of other countries in the region how do you reflect upon that go ahead joshua well i think youre right trees in the region how do you reflect upon that go ahead joshua. Well i think youre right lebanon is one of the is the 3rd most indebted country in the world riyadh salah lebanon is one of the is the 3rd most indebted country in the world riyadh salame a the head of the central bank said to the country will crash economically if these protests may the head of the central bank said to the country well will crash economically if these protests go on much longer but the protests are in many ways i think arrests go on much longer but the protests are in many ways i think a reflection of a tremendous change in the world a an income flexion of tremendous change in the world a an income gap that is yawning but i mean rich and poor and we can see that from a gap that is yawning but i mean rich and poor and we can see that from across the world you know europe is the most equal part of the world it across the world you know europe is the most equal part of the world at 30 percent of wealth is held by the top 10 percent but the middle east 30 percent of wealth is held by the top 10 percent but the middle east is the worst its 61 percent of all wealth is held by the top 10 list is the worst its 61 percent of all wealth is held by the top 10 percent now russia and america are hovering in the middle but 2 percent now russia and america are hovering in the middle but but its that you know the world is becoming more and more unequal and but its that you know the world is becoming more and more unequal and i think in places where you have bad governments like lebanon iraq egypt i think in places where you have bad governments like lebanon iraq egypt syria youre seeing this kind of explosion of syria youre seeing this kind of. Of real you know theres not enough jobs there is bad Government People are robbing at the top real you know theres not enough jobs there is bad Government People are robbing at the top and the public feels like theyre getting a very bad deal and theyre up in arms and the public feels like theyre getting a very bad deal and theyre up in arms you know patrick and i did everything that joshua to said there but we have these you know patrick and i did everything that joshua just said there but we have these ruling elites as i said in my introduction you know still doing business as usual the old ways here ruling elites as i said in my introduction you know still doing business as usual the old ways here and this is a real wake up call and one more thing we look at the disparity in income and this is a real wake up call and one more thing we look at the disparity in income we can look at the usefulness of a lot of these countries a lot of people. And we can look at the usefulness of a lot of these countries a lot of people. Under 18 and what prospects do they have here but my issue is with governance there are 18 and what prospects do they have here but my issue is with governance here whats it going to take because as joshua pointed out here this is this can explode here whats it going to take because as joshua pointed out here this is this can explode it is exploding go ahead patrick you know this is a very difficult topic to do it is exploding go ahead patrick you know this is a very difficult topic to kind of get your head around because theres so many uprising zork does so much a kind of get your head around because theres so many uprising is or does so much political unrest happening simultaneously and i think theres a tendency by the media by political political unrest happening simultaneously and i think theres a tendency by the media by political commentators by economists and political economist to try to commentators by economists and politico. Economists to try to find some generalized terms to sort of describe whats like a global find some generalized terms to sort of describe what its like a global phenomenon i think that was a mistake that the west made with the arab spring put phenomenon i think that was a mistake that the west made with the arab spring by putting it all into one kind of soup and i think the reality is you have you have a different ng it all into one kind of soup and i think the reality is you have you have different aspects and different characteristics with each of these there arent aspects and different characteristics with each of these there are commonalities however if you want to talk about overarching frameworks for commonalities however if you want to talk about overarching frameworks for analyzing this youve got post colonial identity issues youve got post colonial border for analyzing this youve got post colonial identity issues youve got post colonial border mapmaking issues that are still plaguing places like the middle east all the way but mapmaking issues that are still plaguing places like the middle east all the way back from war one youve got neo liberal policies elian of neo liberal back for more old war one youve got neo liberal policies elian lasy of neo liberal policies you have u. S. Meddling which will go under the banner of an policies you have u. S. Meddling which would go under the banner of imperialism you could say u. S. Foreign policy this is also a big big issue here realism you could say u. S. Foreign policy this is also a big big issue how that effects and how it has affected a lot of these countries in regions and you how that effects and how it has affected a lot of these countries in regions and you also have the failure of soviet era collectivist so show a could also have the failure of soviet era collect. Social economic structures and dependency issues and also dependency nomic structures and dependency issues and also dependency issues with all of these countries economically i mean you look at a country like lebanon on issues with all of these countries economically i mean you look at a country like lebanon they have absolutely nothing that they produce they import everything they have absolutely nothing that they produce they import everything they are economically completely dependent on things like foreign aid and an ngo sector nominally completely dependent on things like foreign aid and an ngo sector economy that sort of drives the middle class in that country and thats just one example our economy that sort of drives the middle class in that country thats just one example so its it is very difficult i think hong kong is also has been missed so its it is very difficult i think hong kong is also has been mischaracterized by the press because its it wasnt just characterized by the press because it wasnt just an uprising to do with class this had something to do with change this was uprising to do with class this had something to do with change this was kind of an imported revolution this is indicative of the into individual i mean imported revolution this is indicative of the into individualized young middle class Global Citizen yet that exist young middle class Global Citizen yet that exists virtually their identity from social media and i think that also drives it justs virtually their identity from social media and i think that also drives that change drives it but they dont know where to go with this change well the political organizing isnt there the change drives it but they dont know where to go with this change well the political. Organizing isnt there that the ideas arent there to go anywhere with it you know what you patrick you just did a ph d. On t. V. The ideas arent there to go anywhere with it you know what you patrick you just did a ph d. On t. V. In about 3 minutes thats amazing to me let me go to james now you know i gan you know that this has a lot to do with expectations and i think that you know patrick was hit the nail being about 3 minutes easing to me let me go to james now you know i can you know that this has a lot to do with expectations and i think that you know patrick was hit the nail on the head there and b. People being so interconnected is well here on the head there and b. People being so interconnected is well here but you know what what we have here is we we have global elites that are not but you know what what we have here is we we have global elites that are not delivering theyre doing quite well and they dont have any solutions here and it delivering theyre doing quite well and they dont have any solutions here and at the same time you have a lot of people protesting it in more than protesting out of the fact same time you have a lot of people protesting it in more than protesting out of the fact that they dont see that they have a future here and that is a toxic mixture go ahead james that they dont see that they have a future here and that is a toxic mixture go ahead james it is that i think those are the making of some of the factors we see in common with these things and then it is that i think those are the making of some of the factors we see in common with these things and then as we all know that there are disparate causes like in chile its transportation prices as low as we all know that there are disparate causes like in chile its transportation prices in lebanon it was communications and cell phones and whats up and things like that i could but it was communications and cell phones and whatsapp and things like that i cant help but wonder though peter that what more is there that meets the i cant help but wonder though peter that what. More is there that meets the eye i always wonder why for example some protests in some countries get very far i always wonder why for example some protests in some countries get very favorable treatment from the global media which sarah shares the same neo lift a verbal treatment from the global media which sarah shares the same neo liberal ideology is what these people are supposedly protesting against in many cases and other barrel ideology is what these people are supposedly protesting against in many cases and other cases they dont get such good press for example ive noticed in all of this the cases they dont get such good press for example ive noticed in all of this very few people mention sort of the the granddaddy of all this in the last year or so which is the yellow very few people mentioned sort of the the granddaddy of all this in the last year or so which is the yellow vests in france which i think very much were a working class phenomenon against infests in france which i think very much were a working class phenomenon against the very things were describing but theyre bad you see because theyre there or theyre there theyre not really the very things were describing but theyre bad you see because theyre there or theyre there theyre not really theyre the bad kind of populist as they pose to whats wrong kong thats going to go on the poppy theyre the bad kind of populist as they pose to whats wrong kong thats going to go on the populous the kids in hong kong are good ok that in the in the yellow vests or are disco yeah kids in hong kong are good ok that in the in the yellow vests or are disco yeah exactly theyre dependent its hard to get we should say about spain they have. Thats right there to pay for it we should say about spain they have it thats right and if the catalogs are protesting with thats good but if spaniards who want spain to Stay Together are protesting well thats bad so i think theres i cant help but i dont know if you know if the catalogs are protesting with thats good but if spaniards who want spain to Stay Together are protesting well thats bad so i think. I cant help but suspect that theres a theres a thumb on the scale and terms of our preferred but suspect that theres a theres a thumb on the scale and terms of our perceptions that options i keep waiting for for a better are not all are not all me to tell reality which way the telling lies about which ones are the good times and which are the bad ones. But he can keep his mouth shut as far as im concerned the bad ones. He can keep his mouth shut as far as im concerned joshua you know you know. Patrick marty martin. You u. S. Involvement particularly in the middle east here where you know constantly putting pressure on the lebanese government involvement particularly in the middle east here where you know constantly putting pressure on the lebanese government to get rid of hezbollah that is elected to the offices and to get rid of hezbollah that is elected to the offices across the country as a great deal of popularity and then that the in the in the end then across the country as a great deal of popularity and then that the in the in the end then like threatening turkeys economy and things like that i mean this doesnt make things any threatening turkeys economy and things like that i mean this doesnt make things any better i mean constantly using the dollar in the in the Financial System to punish better i mean constantly using the dollar and the use in the Financial System to punish countries around the world that just takes more options off the table doesnt it go ahead joshua countries around the world that just takes more options off the table doesnt it go ahead joshua. It does you know look at sanctions is a very brutal brutal response it does you know look at sanctions is a very brutal brutal response to trying to regulate refine to your foreign pos to trying to regulate refine to your Foreign Policy because it hits people right across the board it is collective punishment in the worst way and well see because it hits people right across the board it is collective punishment in the worst way and were seeing that in iran with sanctions on iran which of cause iran to escalate are seeing that in iran with sanctions on iran which have caused iran to escalate violence because theyre not going to take it lying down and syrias and desperate violence because theyre not going to take it lying down and syria is in desperate straits and now the United States is eager to take the oil which syria needs the straits and now the United States is eager to take the oil which syria needs in order to rebuild and lebanon of course the u. S. Has been in order to rebuild and lebanon of course the u. S. Has been debating whether they should withdraw all foreign aid to lebanon debating whether they should withdraw all foreign aid to lebanon because hizbollah is part of the government but you know the lebanese the elite because hizbollah is part of the government but you know the lebanese elite has been. Sucking money out of this system for a long time has been. Sucking money out of this system for a long time and and you know it would be terrible if 11. 00 on it collapses i think the whole world and and you know it would be terrible if 11 on it collapses i think the whole world understands that and nobody wants lebanon to collapse because it really isnt the sort of loans understands that and nobody wants lebanon to collapse because it really isnt the sort of loans. Of the middle east where people can retreat to and find some of the middle east where people can retreat to and find some kind of comfort some kind of a sort of leaven teen playground on one hand some kind of comfort some kind of a sort of leaven teen playground on one hand its a playground but on the other hand it said its a refuge for all kinds of thinking and its that playground but on the other hand its a its a refuge for all kinds of thinking middle easterners who cant find a place in their own countries so it would be in the middle easterners who cant find a place in their own country so it would be terrible if that if it collapses if it if it runs into bankruptcy which it could terrible if that if it collapses if it if it runs into bankruptcy which it could do at any moment and. Its hard to see how theyre going to how the lebanese are good do at any moment and. Its hard to see how theyre going to how the lebanese are going to really sort out their economic problems because when we look at the arabs going to really sort out their economic problems because when we look at the arab spring more generally which was framed of course as we just heard you know bring more generally which was framed of course as weve just heard you know framed in terms of democracy. It there really hasnt been any framed in terms of democracy. It there really hasnt been any serious economic discussions about how these how the middle east are serious economic discussions about how these how the middle Eastern Countries can get out of this terrible income gap the bad governance and countries can get out of this terrible income gap the bad governance the corruption and thats whats going to take and if we dont really know the answers to this the corruption and thats whats going to take it is we dont really know the answers to that. And people are desperate but these movements that have been run by social media which are easy and people are desperate but these movements t

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