A blanket ban and which is unfair because it punishes the innocent as well as the guilty. The leaders of france germany russia and ukraine are meeting in paris on monday to thrash out a road map to peace in Eastern Ukraine president putin has just arrived in paris for the summit are detailed to trying to report on what the 4 leaders are in to achieve. The bloody conflict in east ukraine between the pro russian breakaway republics of donetsk and lugansk and kiev has been sorted for years now theres only one crucial remark its been sorted on paper the step by step peace plan is called the mids big remains and this came into being thanks to the efforts by the leaders of germany france ukraine and russia this quartet became known as the normandy for well during the 5 years of the existence of the peace plan and weve kept hearing from all kinds of politicians from east to west that the minsk agreements are the only way to go to support the implementation of the minsk agreement because the reasonable alternative no plan b. Exists in my opinion this is the only way we can create a climate in Ukrainian Society where they were able to make painful compromises regarding the states and so must. I agree with the chancellor there is no other alternative in the implementation of agreements with help of the usa yes. However in fact in reality none of these steps were pretty much taken so no wonder the normandy for stopped getting together this is why december the 9th is so important the quartet is convening after a very long pause and the president of russia and ukraine are said to hold direct talks face to face for the 1st time since the civil war in ukraine broke out in 2014 but i do have to point out that he cried so there was a lunch he could find himself trapped in fact some are saying that hes already in a trap because any baby steps that he could make towards russia any little compromise could cause some real political damage at home but dont ruin the success of his party because the anti russian prowar lobby in ukraine is still. Very strong and we know that the political public mood in ukraine kid swing or just take you turn to within a matter of but instead now you may wonder whats in it for france and germany this time the french president emanuel macron wants to cement his role as a senior peace broker in europe was decent ties to russia when it comes to angle of merkel of course you may say that right now shes more busy with domestic issues and soon she will be on her way out of big politics although like i said the minsk agreements are partially her brainchild so for her its a matter of personal to revive them if we take moscow for the russians its very important to show commitment to the midst agreements to restore trust with the western countries but anyway it seems for the russian side status quo is more preferable over any kind of steps that are carefully thought through so should we expect any surprises breakthroughs on monday most experts are saying that we shouldnt but we do have to remember that under president bush the lenski there has already been a prisoner swap between russia and ukraine and also along parts of the front line and east ukraine on both sides heavy weaponry has been removed so this does bring hope and a slight degree of optimism. Meanwhile on sunday thousands took to the streets of ukraines capital against the upcoming meeting demonstrators brought tents and food to the president s office in a bid to spend the night there were kiev authorities trying to clear the area sparking clashes with protesters the countrys opposition led by former president bush and co called on people to take to the streets across ukraine meanwhile us has a former foreign minister told us the summit is an important move in the right direction. Any decision that you take on the level for Foreign Policy in particular when its such a delicate issue it always has. The mastic implication that thats very evident in particular in that case so i do wish old old boy and old old the very best to be able to start something and then to wait for that then ill make that it can evolve but from what we have seen been seen over the last few months we already can detect some sort of dynamic thats not thats not anymore the complete stalemate that have been movements on the military Level Exchange of. People who were detained something is going on what i have always said what is very important in diplomacy is that certain things happen. Indescretion they dont have to be discussed on a daily level in public its important that certain things can happen sometimes behind closed doors but thats where they can happen best. We now go back to our top story and the water has held a conference explaining its decision to ban russia from participating in major Sports Events just to remind you the World Antidoping Agency has banned the russian flag from Major International tournaments for the next 4 years including the summer olympics in tokyo in 2020 however it may not cover the Upcoming Games if the court of arbitration for sport does not deliver a ruling on russias possible appeal before the sporting event but then of course the ban will cover the games in paris and 2024 instead. They want a conference for us and joins us live now with the details charlotte what else was said. Well yes more details about what that 4 year ban will entailed from the Water Committee he. In the zone theyve said that that will mean that no russian athlete will be able to participate in a major event under the banner all the flag of russia it means that russia wont be able to bid for it wont be able to host the major sporting events in the next 4 years during that ban and that means that obviously hosting the events could take a much longer because you have to bid for events many years before they happen it also means that officials wont be able to sit on International Sporting boards sporting committees and government officials wont be allowed to go to major sporting events and as you mentioned that the flag it will also be banned from those major sporting events now we also find out more about the detail of why why did made this decision 145. 00 athletes they say are under suspicion as a result of this case but they say that only about a 3rd of those athletes are currently participating in sporting events that so many around 50 so that begs the question what this means for all those other russian athletes who are going to be trying to show that they are not in suspicion that they want to participate in major sporting events what of those athletes who we heard today for water that those athletes will have to prove their innocence. This is a ban against russia the protection of the rights of russian us each. Entry for major events. Able to demonstrate that they are not implicated in any we. Are complying and what is important thing to these decisions. Are really sanctioning those who are responsible for this many pollutions and leave those open for those who had nothing to do with. In russia clean. Slate. Well that decision by water was a unanimous decision we also know the result which is the Russia Anti Doping Agency said it will appeal that decision weve also heard from russia that it says it is done everything to abide by the requests from water and says that theyve put all that evidence to the president in fact i asked the president that question about the evidence that russia has given to show that it doesnt believe that it had anything to do with any evidence being tampered with. So to says its going to appeal this decision russia says its rejected all of the allegations of data manipulation it says its provided you evidence to counter that to show that it didnt delete the state it didnt modify the data what do you have to say to that and was that taken account in your decision well i wasnt part of the the discussion i do know. Cooperation between the. Conversations they had with flood example of the russian Olympic Committee. But those people who are interested are entitle to under the standard to appeal and if they wish to appeal they have 21 days to accept this. And if they do not wish to appeal then we will be in cash. Well what a says it decision is russia doesnt believe its this looks like it will end up in front of the court to fall betray should and its for the court of arbitration to decide which side is right one thing to note is that this wont come into force until there is the final decision taken place so that could mean that 2020 is out or it could mean that paris 2024 is out because that 4 year ban will start as soon as that final decision is taken. Are to charlotte to bring us the latest from. All right now to discuss more about what we heard today from were joined in the studio by. A lot coming down today with this decision and i think the biggest takeaway from that Park Press Conference is theres so much left to be decided what was your biggest takeaway you know you you mentioned a very right thing here and it might be foolish now to feel in any way optimistic about the future after a decision like that by the World Antidoping Agency but i actually i feel a little bit optimistic and heres why because. The things theyve said today at the press conference to me they really have no idea how to implement all this so they took this one big step and said russia will not be officially represented at any major World Championship for that matter not european but world. But they still dont know how to operate it for instance a good example of a Russian Football Team i mean football is still the sport number one in the world you cannot deny that and when someone so russia qualifies as. Being part of the usa for which is not a signatory of the water code it does not adhere to the rules and weve already heard from the president of the way for that russia will participate in the euro zone that will be hosted here next summer and then the 2021 the Champions League final as well so d raw. Qualifies as a nation under u. A. E. For the rules gets into the world cup which is the fee for domain the Football Association in the world and then it has a sort of like give away its flag and compete on the white flag or Something Like that they still dont know how to operate all this they still dont know how to navigate in the of the murky world of rules that they have created fair enough they are trying to fight doping the. Limitations and strict rules something mentioned a few times during the press conference that this year we introduced the rules now weve you know basically hit them as an avalanche on the russia and no flag no potentially no anthem and no and all things like that we are trying to clean the sport i still dont know how exactly representation of the country with no fly cleans the sport except humiliating the athletes humiliating the nation athletes who have done nothing wrong who have not you know tested positive for doping in their in their careers its still a big question mark but the reason i am still somewhat optimistic is that some of these federations including fifo. You know you can see the response from fifa so far they said ok weve taking notice of what is decision and we will update you on due course because they also dont know what to do with it i mean and theres a chance that they might say you know well read wrote a letter to compete in qatar should they qualify as a normal like full fledged nation weve heard from the i. I. H. F. The worlds governing body for ice hockey and ice hockey World Championship is due to be held in russia that they said this will not be affected the participation of russian hosting of the storm it will not be affected by what is a decision so there is on the one hand you know a potential for some federations having the voice of reason and by voice of reason i mean not slapping any clean athletes and you know not punishing those who have not nothing to do with anything that russia is being accused of but also there might be an interesting sort of i would say power struggle but a little bit of a revolt in the world of sport where some federations might say. Who are you to give us these rules and you know why why is it made like that because you know it is quite possible that not all people will agree with what is decision weve already spoken to a number of people weve already heard support from athletes across the world who said that no matter what russia did wrong slapping a blanket ban or a comprehensive ban on the law is not a good thing to do so i think we. In the very early stages of a very interesting rollercoaster ride of a story i said this last year when russia was the band was suspended and risotto was reinstated back then the 1st time i said you know when anybody who thinks its some kind of victory that we saw it is not reinstated its only the beginning of the journey that now rosado has to work its way up to you know to build credibility both fortunately that credibility looks to be gone right now for whatever reason whether its the sort of fault or just some murky shady character who allegedly walked into the lab and altered all the data the credibility is gone now but theres a theres a whole you know window of opportunity for very crazy developments in the story and i think would were just in the beginning over it when you mention that there is some hope when it comes to fifo when it comes to that i we have had the i. O. C. The International Olympic committee coming out and saying that theyre in full agreement with lot of decision and so then you would think ok well least the olympics are clear but at the same time theyre not theyre not because theyre still the possibility of appeal and so now theres this question of could russia miss out on the upcoming olympics in tokyo or because this is a rolling ban and it doesnt really come into effect until that this issue has come down well in fact the paris one picks a couple years later so once again everything is just very very unclear what do you think that means for athletes who are looking to the future not just tokyo but the paris. Really even scared to think about whats running through the minds of all the athletes now particularly clean up kids who have been preparing for lympics who have no idea. You know there could be another dark development in this whole doping saga. I cant even imagine whats running through their heads now because you know its their dreams and as roy joins jr one of the legendary boxes in the history of boxing told me just a fortnight ago here in russia by the way he said you know this decision the kind of decision by water. It kills a lot of dreams so for them its obviously a dream dead for many of them when and yeah they will go they will participate they will earn money but they will do that under the flag of their nation something theyve been trying to sort of prepare for and training for but i think you know there are many more other things that stake here again particularly the future of the doping fight and. 0 question about it the antidoping movement is very important it has to be implemented there should be no cheaters in sport and you know numerous experts have already told d us you know sports is something that exists outside of the realm of politics it should be clean you know the original elim big movement the olympians they gathered and they stop all the wars and conflicts in ancient greece to compete against each other in a friendly way so this is what its supposed to be about and if this mess i would call it a mess that we are finding ourselves right now in including russia including why including all the federation so now have unexpected a lot of headache on their hands because they dont know how to navigate in the in the new rules that water has crushed up on them if this sort of creates a new environment for both the antidoping fight and for you know the future of Russian Sports in particular because theres a lot to be done here theres a lot to be changed theres a lot of systematic changes that needs to take place irrespective of the scandal in respect of all the stories. Im still a little bit you know sort of optimistic about that but if were talking about the clean athletes of course for them its a big blow and lets just look at one of those stories well be hearing many many of those stories but one of those stories is that of an exam that they took off a skeleton athlete who was never tested. Positive for doping and he is heartbroken now imagine. Other. Peoples kids at home and you should get on. The other people in the world. Over the commuter. The book this is. Interesting in your mind you know. This began. With. Yeah the you know with. The. Success of the. There are still you know below the middle thats the to be on the. Stool of the bunch of. The that actually made a good. Discipline that i could be somewhat but i do walk the computer the could almost support us there will be truth into just i knew you better way to get us knowing s. M. S. Would you please i mean i see images when you. Go to leadership ability into the. More the its called a whopper. Yeah the spin in my was at the cook if you will just put me on the porch just. Still sitting near. Russias sports minister is now giving a press conference over at wandas decision we can listen in live to what hes saying. Really was remembers good reason to believe that was the reason which is usenet of you presume the press conference is here at the press center i would leave you to receive this award information send and here with us we have the minister for support of the Russian Federation is to cough cough on the outcomes of the water meeting that took place unless everyone knows probably the executive committee will be to. Take back the status given previously to the russian Antidoping Agency probably their decision was quite predictable for of the whole history every decision that Compliance Committee made was later on adopted by the executive committee and so what are the next steps that russia is going to make and this question goes to the minister for support so like to thank you for being open and ready for discussion for coming here at such a short notice and this purse conference is here for you we used to work with you really have time to organize it but were here thank you for that may you say couple of words about the format of the todays obviously with the go or indeed as