Past week weve heard a lot about escalation deescalation and what is proportionate weve also heard the words war this is how the u. S. Ran complex describe what is not talked enough about is the necessity of ending the American Military presence in the middle east these endless wars must cease. Talking the us around conflict im joined by my guest Mohammad Marandi and to him hes a professor at the university of toronto in washington we have christopher and i when he is founder of American Veterans policy network and in iraq war veteran and in sydney we cross the alley risk he is a middle east expert as well as contributor with a monitor all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate when home and let me go to you 1st here if you were to believe the media things are settling down a little bit after this tumultuous week involving the United States iran and the entire region and were going to talk a lot about iraq here where do things stand right now because if we look at it from tweets and whatnot you know a rand his decided to stand down how do you feel about that being interim go ahead. I think iran feels that trump stood down because when the iranians. Launch the missiles all of them passed through the the air defenses and hit their targets so they were both accurate and the americans were unable to intercept them so that was a major success and i think that was a signal to washington that all their military bases in the Persian Gulf Region are vulnerable and it also sends a message to the saudis their morality it back raney ruling family that the americans cannot defend them against iranian missiles and iran has huge numbers of missiles and huge numbers of underground Storage Centers from to from where they will fire them in case of war. So trump who is talking about bombing cultural sites and 52. 00 targets southern the he became much more. Lets say peace loving after after the attack so its the iranians feel its the other way around but more importantly i think the iranians believe that the americans have made probably the biggest mistake. That theyve made among the many mistakes that theyve made over the past decade and that is that theyve turned the iraqi people against the United States theyve turned the iranian people against the United States and theyve united iran in iraq in a way which we havent seen before you know chris youre in iraq war veteran i mean talk about that because thats essentially whats happened and if you look at whats coming out of the pentagon and other places of power in washington d. C. What where does democracy actually stand now in iraq because it was invaded under the auspices to bring democracy to iraq now they have a parliament in the form of the Parliament Says thats time to go home but washington says on not so fast so what is the value of the democracy that was forced upon the iraqi people in 2003 go ahead chris. Peter you know if i could figure all that out id be a genius because it has been on unsolvable since world war one i think this all goes back to sykes peacoat treaty and world war one the middle east has been a carved up in so many power structures and its never fundamentally been able to come to a resting place where theres been able to be harmony throughout these governments and i would agree with you that it is just completely difficult to have this kind of long term intervention at this point i would i would certainly agree limiting the u. S. Footprint but the problem is 2 things one you know that resolution is obviously nonbinding its sort of a sentiment from the legislature weve still got reality on the ground of being able to do things and i think the u. S. Doesnt why. To have. You no long term iranian influence whether a certain extent sam what happened something i would also dispute but isnt that really up to the iraqi people i mean why should someone sitting in washington d. C. Determine what kind of friendships a foreign country a sovereign country like iraq should have it seems very heavy handed and i dont see how it adds to American Foreign policy interests go ahead. Well i think youre you are right i mean the fact is i mean theyve already had their opportunity i mean they they would even fight for themselves with the Iraqi Defense forces we left in place which is i think the low point of the war but i would what i would push back a little bit from my colleague is this idea of of. You know this successful iranian strike you hit none of us we just wiped out knocked out one of your key officers i dont think i dont think iran actually really wants to strike back i think theyre worried about the same sions i think that this is all really about the economy and i think President Trump has learned thats really where the real war is is being able to take their economy and theyre feeling that so i dont think iran actually wants to strike back i think they want to do 2 things save face and avoid sanctions ok ali lets go to you in sydney here what has been accomplished here i mean professor marandi did bring up a good point is that actually iran was able to show its strategic flexibility and strengths within the region here that is a very strong message and they launch the missiles from iran it wasnt from a proxy so they were actually sending a very clear signal and it is the signal is its time for Foreign Military to leave the middle east go ahead ali and sit me. Yeah before i answer the question just how me to respond to what your previous guest said iran wants to avoid sanctions imposed was a priority for iraq i think that iraq would have went to edit made a deal with a drunken ministration trump wanted to meet with president rouhani and general simply and president s were hot it was the one who reject it so i think that notion iraq just lost already but so the sanctions it has been trying to catch them now are going to be a question. Here on yes this is the 1st time we see iran actually responding to american bases and announcing it too easily revolutionary guards actually announce even though they were the ones who launched this attack so it appears that we have been indeed entered a new phase in the american iranian confrontation i also have to have that if susan just about iran bush the us here many. Nonstate actors who will be shot allied with iran that it will also could respond and retaliate example of any or any the radiation loops like because a lot of lebanon like there will be movement indeed like the mobilization of forces in iraq if these planes hit him. Generous about money was indeed an icon and striking so that money really there was something which with which had a very big effect on them and soon addition to iranian retaliation its very possible that iran is how i aspire to respond until all of irans nonstate to act alone and be ready and allies across the actors which i mentioned as a lawyer who did 6 exceptional they feel will prove themselves to be a force to be reckoned with on a military scale ok lets go back to trying professor marandi asylum on the i mean he was he was murdered and hes been mourned but his deputy. Stepped in immediately so what is really happened how is the needle been moved by taking out quote unquote this. Murderous monster whatever you want to say and c. N. N. And all of that because that the policy doesnt change i mean the rhetoric you know in the bluster that you that last for what a few news cycles but were still back where we were ok i mean thats why i think the assassination was is senseless ok because it doesnt affect policy go ahead moment. Well a couple of myths have been destroyed the in popularity of this samik republic of iran at home through the enormous funeral between 5 to 7000000 people participated in tehran alone even the western media made it that it was extraordinary so it shows the strength of the jet m. S. E. And the and the capability and the anger of the the people of iran and this stomach republic of iran the myth of iraqis hating iran and hating the Popular Mobilization force because the funerals that were held in iraq are also extraordinary the size the magnitude in the different cities that show that the iraqis and the iranians were actually both. Very respectful for one another the funerals in iraq were for the iranians and the funerals in iran were for the iraqis. As well and then contrary to what your guest in the United States says americans didnt achieve anything they murdered 2 war heroes at the iraqi at the back the International Airport and the iranian commander the iraq the iraqi Prime Minister said he was going to meet me at 8 am he was scheduled to meet him to discuss a letter that the saudis had given because the iraqi Prime Minister wanted to mediate and he was going to give the iranian response. And the iraqi Prime Minister said that trump knew about it and he welcomed it so this shows the degree of deception that comes out of washington so murdering war heroes in another country against the will of that country in complete disregard of the government the Prime Minister and International Law and sovereignty is not anything to be proud about or to gloat about or to to say you know to even discuss in public its something to be ashamed of ok let me let me the going i know its got to christmas is go to chris i know how dan hate that he had just one sentence go ahead to one sentence go ahead go ahead. I just wanted to say on the other hand the iranian missiles all. Were hit their targets and they destroyed buildings look at the satellite pictures they destroyed hangars everything inside them but they specifically targeted the hangars and buildings that were full of drones and helicopters and equipment and they didnt target the barracks where the american soldiers were sleeping in so the americans tried to murder you iranians at the International Airport but the iranians tried to destroy american equivalent inside of us being ok lets go to which side as he made lets go to court i dislike to go to chris chris go ahead before we go to the break here respond go ahead chris. I mean ive had my fair share of america bashing for the day peter i mean look heres the deal he was a combat casualty he wasnt murdered and see ive had some experience at war were a ran its been fun funding and pushing out these proxies to blow a soldiers eyes out and legs off so do i feel bad that he died absolutely not i might even have a beer later and cheers to it and the fact the matter is this is that more people died at that funeral i mean we could talk all day about the barbaric barbarism in iran i dont think wed have enough time some just enough to push back on this america bashing where im with you peter i would love to get out of there ok were going to were going to talk about that and theyre still going to talk about that in the 2nd half of the program here gentlemen were going to be murdered were going to a short break gentlemen and and after that break well continue our discussion on the u. S. Around complex stayed with our. Guests. Most people think just stand down in this is this you need to be the 1st one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest read in truth to stand losers and just the dance the right questions to the right answer. The. Question. But if she warn you i do the dishes at the balls more than those jeans nearest beach and you see me read to you true she. Doesnt know about that when you guys e. Q. s will be home in the news i mean that is without infringing ball. A lot of you will see slowing your info as it fights about 2 kids each other both hard and most schools. But as in the adults to. The. Cabinet 5 days doing a sit. In english medium the people who simply. Would include in little. Ok. You can have a little bit on. Welcome back across the uk where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle remind you were discussing the us iran conflict. Ok lets go to ali in sydney we have a gordian knot in front of us and we have to cut it somehow in the gordian knot is the following donald trump ran as as a candidate in 2016 to end these endless wars ok we bring the troops home now we have a situation weve got in a very bizarre way and tragic way but weve got into a situation where he can have his cake and eat it to the troops can come home theyre not wanted in iraq any longer and why doesnt he and brace it its his Campaign Promise for Goodness Sake and we know the majority of veterans that fought in those wars in that part of the world thought the wars were useless fruitless and in a waste of time and and you and theres also antiwar sentiment across the political spectrum this is an opportunity why doesnt he grasp it go ahead ali. Just to comment on what chris shays were going to get us away money and time to sort of money whether it comes will you. Or. Carried out in the office was a diplomatic well assess it have them so they man he is the is a member of the well as a member of the st lawrence of the military this is like counting the joint chiefs of a country so lets not thing to do with a casualty of war and its unfortunate and your guest says that you know he was so grateful as abraham here its up to the killing of so many when a celebrity played a pivotal role in defeating isis whether it be a hero in syria or isis which is the most notorious terrorist group in the world now in the history of your question i think that donald trump has given a lot of ground if you would like to the neo conservative movement if for there was you know he was trying to confront the neo cons trying to confront the wall oregon washington but he appears to have succumbed to certain pressures and regarding to suppress the nation attempt yes it is i think. In this particular issue trump respond to the issues or listen to the entire might point out specifically i think that the assassinations the real mind behind the of the brains behind this operation was like going to iowa want to comply it was an evangelical hate whitey logically and sirhan is supportive of israel at the same time trying also has many muniz ready allies we have so theyre not figures who would support him in his Campaign Donors like children idelson i think thats the im told from which we could look at it but at you know i have to watch the imprecise that arent think that the ascension of so many is going to any broader strategy i think that it just seems from pure hatred from certain americans bigots towards iraq this same time the it stems from the ongoing american evangelical support said israel well it let me go back to chris because i cut him off because we had to go to a hard break here chris you know why doesnt trump and brace this is a possibility. Are you bringing the troops home troops home because he campaigned on that and a lot of people are backing that i mean you have even the other party totally gabbert talking about that and is that doesnt he risk losing part of his base because thats what a lot of people we dont know that certain percentage would vote exactly for that why doesnt he embrace that go ahead chris or i think that that option is Still Available peter i mean again though like all legislatures in the world they do a lot of talking and a lot of babbling but the executive still have to deal with the actual reality on the ground so i think if thats decisions going to be made theyre going to have to be prepared for all of the different logistical realities that will happen if that fully comes to fruition but another thing peter why are we talking about the deaths at the funeral from the crowds and the absolute lunacy over there i mean why do we never actually fully cover whats actually going on in iran again a government where the clergy runs everything every stretch of government is stacked with clergy that runs the entire government this idea of the iranian people are fully united there are many iranian people that have nothing to do with the government but theyre afraid so i dont think were really getting the full picture of chris you know really all that all that all of give you this even lets say everything you said is true what business is it of the United States what kind of how the government does run into iran what is what is the problem its their country i would i would agree i agree with you about limiting our footprint but im saying while were still there having to manage situations there are certain decisions that have to be made and i just have to push back on this complete celebration for military officers that have long been involved in iraq see what rands been very i am is that i am sent their hands i want to possibly off of it i want to possibly celebrate the end of these endless wars thats most important to me ok let me go to mohammed in i mean. We just had a description from chris here i mean what how does a rand look at how the region is of all things because and i think its only a matter of time before american troops leave iraq that means also syria how does that change the geo political reality or like to say that american troops are in syria illegally under International Law they were not invited there by the government in damascus so they should even go even faster so how does the political terrain change go ahead in. The world. Ryan well obviously your guest in the United States knows nothing about iran and to call all those millions of people who went to the funeral loonatics is an insult to the nation what i do think is important is that trump himself admitted this is one of the ironies of this whole episode trump himself admitted once upon a time that it was iran and russia that were fighting isis and trump also admitted once upon a time that it was obama who created isis so. The the trump regime has admitted that soleimani because he was the key person who fought isis there were from the very beginning when isis was closing in on damascus he went in there you know help us and we dont have a right and then were here and we have this it we are divided very if we have alexei is kris kringle really regime as Chris Mohame