Lawyers there is incidentally case law which says that the physical layout of the courtroom can have bearing on whether a trial is fair or not so for our all or his protests about that have been disregarded but beyond this i am becoming worried by the trend of some of the legal arguments in the very interesting lee the prosecution seems to have accepted i should say the crown seems have accepted that the things that he has been charged with are political offenses but the argument now seems to be that that isnt relevant at all in extraditing him because the u. K. Extradition act of 2003 doesnt say that people cant be extradited on police for political offenses even though there has always been well understood. Even though the extradition treaty with the United States. Precluded and that does worry me that worries me a great do well it should worry us all because Julian Assange has a journalist ok i mean the way hes being treated me go to jail or here also in london the way hes being treated here is if its a terrorist i mean the the layout the alexander me here is just told us i mean this is treating him as if hes a danger to society in themselves there is no evidence in his past to to prove that do have this justified whatsoever he is being treated like a terrorist because hes a political prisoner and theres no 2 ways about it go ahead. Yes youre exactly right peter in fact we know that Julian Assange has been an Londons Belmarsh prison which is often referred to as the u. K. s pantani bay and we also learned earlier that in fact Julian Assange has been placed in 5 Holding Cells hes been handcuffed frequently and i believe that his case files have been confiscated at the end of the day and his attorney Edward Fitzgerald has argued that in fact that impairs his right to a fair trial we also have learned that while he was staying in the Ecuadorian Embassy in london that this Spanish Security firm you see global was actually spying on him in spying on his visitors in particular journalists especially those who were russian or american so that even infringes on his rights to Attorney Client privilege as well you know joe i mean considering how hes being treated during this trial and of course the the the information that has come out that he was spied on when he was in the Ecuadorian Embassy i mean he really must really scare the daylights out of the establishment. The way hes being treated proves that i mean it is sense he is probably the most dangerous man in the world and they want to punish him for this go ahead joe. It was certainly not dangerous in a violent sense and thats the way hes. Treated you have to wonder why theyre doing this to him why hes in that cage why the day on monday this week he was strip searched twice and he was in 11 different times were handcuffed why are they doing this and its just who bursts its power its almost a sadistic to show that theyre in charge they can do whatever they want with him and thats a stream we disturbing as particularly the what tila just mentioned about the lawyers i mean you have the prosecuting government has eavesdropped on the defense preparations for this case by that by that Spanish Company is selling to the cia all of this that are so that would be thrown out of any case a mediately does not in any case the arguments aguas in the court the arguments by the government by the u. S. Government and their british lawyer are just theyre ridiculous in some respects its as if they didnt feel like they needed to make any kind of serious argument i mean on the on the on the date on tuesday. A son his lawyer has demolished this idea that tried to help Chelsea Manning hack into a government computer 1st chelsea and legal access to that a top secret 2nd the he didnt even need a password what he was doing is trying to help it download video games and movies and music videos because its forbidden on army computers its obscene they demolished that and what did the government lawyers say james lewis he said that that was a straw man argument i mean its not a strawman argument because it wasnt a false argument its the problem is the judge is being clearly biased against assad we expected that going in weve seen many signs about that as well and the issue about whether its political or not is key and again as Alexander Point out the actors are going to be the actor the treaty thats going to be followed thats a key question right now yeah you know i think you know a lot of us that have what followed this this tragic story here is that it seems to me from people that are knowledgeable knowledgeable about the im. Eric in legal system it seems almost impossible Julian Assange could get a fair trial in the United States even to the point where it would actually be a secret trial because it would have to do with National Security in espionage i mean how in the world can you call that justice go ahead alex wellen well you cant and im pretty sure that this is going to be something that is going to be discussed extensively over the course of the of the hearing we havent reached those points yet about whether Julian Assange can expect a fair trial in the United States the disproportionate sentence he would face or risk if he was sent there and i think this is absolutely central to this whole issue because it makes the whole thing to me look stream really vindictive given that as i have said already the crown has accepted the these are political charges we should be brought against him are im very disturbed about this argument by the way that the fact that his political charges somehow isnt important because the act doesnt mention political charges the extradition treaty yes we britain and the United States express lee prohibits 3 extraditing people who are on the facing political charges and it seems to me that to disregard that is to say that the court can go beyond what the British Government but to britain to do in a treaty an International Treaty integrate with the United States that doesnt make any kind of logical sense you know me at all you know taylor that not only is this a travesty of justice in the case of Julian Assange but it is it is going to severely damage the opinion people have of the british legal system because just as joe has pointed out and ive been reading accounts of people that have been in the court it looks like this is all pro forma i mean everyones yarning i mean cant we get this over with because it is it has already been made and theyre doing this for public consumption for those there or even reported go ahead taylor. Yessir exactly right it seems that this judge in particular has been siding in favor of the prosecution we saw that with previous hearings that took place last year at the end of last year in particular now you do bring up a good point about julian potentially receiving a fair trial in the United States unfortunately that is not at all the case because he will be tried in the u. S. District Eastern District court of virginia which is known as the Espionage Court and i believe that anybody who has been tried in that court for a similar offenses join asuncion National Security case they have all been tried and convicted in this particular court and much of the evidence in this case the jury would not even be able to hear and if you have jury members seeing and hearing that they cannot even be provided with evidence thats really prejudicial to the defendant so i think that all rule of law in this case has been really disregarded but i am hopeful that the judge will side on the facts of this case in the facts so far i believe have been overwhelmingly in favor of the defense you know joe in a broader picture if we look at what happened to julian and and then we have roger stone it seems like the establishment and elements of the state want to prove they want to the rush hoax because theyll say look we got this conviction we got this conviction theres a. Hoax the hoax is back in vogue again here i mean you know its as if the report didnt matter doesnt matter push it aside were going to prove to you that this conspiracy actually exists when there is not. The evidence to prove it whatsoever go ahead joe. You know ironically the prosecution argued on thursday that assad would have had to try to change the government in the us for it to have been a political offense and thats of course what thats of course what the most the us assigns critics say that he truly brought trump in he tried to stop who recruited rather than he published what he got and cant publish what he didnt get on trump that this was a journalistic decision and that he wasnt necessarily so so youre right they are trying to mix in 2016 they want to get a song for that theyre blaming him for that theyre blaming everyone except Hillary Clinton for a loss of course and to try to suck that into a sanjian to that russia gate story at this point when hes not been charged on anything other than what happened in 2010 under the espionage act and simply for possessing and then disseminating classified material which no one of the journals has ever been prosecuted for under the espionage act and us the Obama Administration wouldnt do it the Trump Administration has they crossed that red line thats what this is about but its going to be construed us as having something to do with the 2016 election you know thats part of the done the descent from Mission Campaign that was launched in march of 2008 by the pentagon and cyber counter chaldeans program and they said in a 32 page report that ironically was leaked to rekey leaks that destroying the trust around we can weeks is the aim and to have reputational damage inflicted on a son so that for 12 years now there been lies and smears and thats one reason this case cannot be a tried fairly why the government is being very cavalier about their case they not really making anything because they think theyve got it in the bag very cavalier or it would have to go to a hard break here were going to go to a short break it out about short break well continue our discussion on Julian Assange and stayed with already. A little bit of let me. Ask i would then will. Take i could not predict that could not trouble getting low. Can you love to lose even all mothers. Tend to make it a c. Because the ones who come. To what do have all of the kook on the scene do it in the out not as you hijack dunks. In the local difficult to. Get. A new one of those 2 morons who move a little known to the snooze through learning 12 phenomena so when you hire tied to use in to do. The job. The new one and you meet your house on the net passing them. The world is driven by dreamers shaped by one person. Who dares thinks. We dare to ask. For. A microbe russians arent slights and dad sed you know whites are men for example there are there slights against when. Or more nonwhite so its always the idea is that statements that directed toward a Privileged Group are interpreted differently than a statement directed toward an oppressed group and so thats kind of the whole framework and its its a political framework thats used the result is of course focusing at least on certain kinds of minor slights and say rather than or more than we need to call attention to them but its not all slight so its a very political and. Welcoming to cross talk where all things are considered im Peter Lavelle were discussing. Ok lets go back to alexander in london you know alex is really interesting what joe had to say before we went to the break because the establishment and the establishment journalists that are actually not journalists theyre just client pawns for power and to disgrace what theyve done to journalism but you know you know we can leaks has always been seen as trying to undermine the establishment because he exposed his their corruption in their lives and but you know the interesting thing by the by. Prosecuting Julian Assange and wiki leaks as an extension theyre actually undermining themselves i mean its actually they are the ones that are undermining the public faith in their institutions in the in the political elite here and they do they have complete disregard for the rule of law in my opinion and they dont care what the publics perception of them are because they dont really have much respect for the electorate and people in general i mean they can get away with anything go ahead alex well they did and i have to say i completely agree with what you say about the media in this situation. Media collectively all ought to be extremely concerned about this trial because it it goes directly to the heart of what investigative reporters are supposed to do theyre supposed to you know get information from sources and if its in the Public Interest publish it and thats what you did a search was doing to be very clear about this and he was doing it in cooperation with the major news for exactly what old and yet its been so well previous that you know you have a few month old words of support for him from a few journalists in the Mainstream Media but theres been nothing nothing that remotely is proportionate to the gravity of the situation that we see in the courtroom and if youre talking about the proceedings themselves theres been an almost total silence in britain even reporting that let alone discussing them so it astonishes me that this animus against Julian Assange. Coming from establishment media seems to go beyond their you know seems to trump if you like their own self interests they dont want to be willing to sacrifice their own profession or the standards of their own profession in order to basically punish this man and obviously one has to ask why and it does seem to me increasingly its becoming clear that establishment media and the political establishment are now become so intertwined theyre the one thing they are essentially the one thing yeah they were the ones that extension of the other thats really quite obvious on so many Different Levels on so many different topics you know taylor i remember during the 2016 president ial election in the United States everybody was captivated by week you exhibit donald trump that i love wiki leaks ok. I mean its amazing how bandon him because you know what what he did they dont do anymore and i think that you know they do know that theyre being shamed here because of from what ive read and ive been following week you league since its inception its never released anything that wasnt authentic ok i mean how many new cable stations newspapers magazines websites put out big news all the time not once can you pin it on the weekly leaks but once so i mean it seems to me that the way they they see that. By the way the cume is that somehow they can redeem themselves as being real journalist but thats childs play doesnt make any sense go ahead. Yes youre exactly right in fact to wiki leaks has a 100 percent accuracy rate in its reporting i cannot think of any other Corporate Media outlet that can say that and have that record it seems to me that many people many journalists in the Corporate Media in the Mainstream Media do not want to associate themselves with joining a size they do not view him as a journalist for some reason and i think we could really say that the reason for that is because of a very effective dissin for mation campaign attacking his character at tacking wiki leaks and its Staff Members but its always important to remember as well that wiki leaks has done a lot to protect sources and political dissidents and whistleblowers and an extension of wiki leaks of course is the Courage Foundation which helps those who are in some legal trouble who have the courage to actually blow the whistle on their corrupt governments and blow the whistle on these intelligence agencies which abuse their power and joined us on his attorney were not a who knows him personally of course and considers him a friend said this this is someone of a high moral integrity and it is very much the case that Julian Assange having received that information from child. Manning for him to just sit on that information and not actually expose it to the public would be in fact the thing to do in this case so he acted appropriately by showcasing this to the world and highlighting these u. S. War crimes you know you know joe the whole thing is that when the media does focus on Julian Assange and in their words what hes going through right now they dont really talk about what we expose ok they talk about how the information was cured ok and if youre a publisher if youre an editor and youve got someone out in the field youre going to milk that person for all its worth because thats exactly what you do ok and now but no i mean ever since the particularly the predestined emails you know you know better stolen. C. N. N. Trying to convince you not to read it because its illegal but well do it for you would remember that chris cuomo nonsense ok no but they say they dont want to do when they look at process but they will never talk about the content of it ok or all next that they can think of it you know it but ive seen theres so much of thats done i read just a small percentage of it is so i open it it