Market cannot absorb well so that has lets. Stagnation this has been a crisis waiting to happen this year actually mention of a crisis and i just say you know it would have happened without the fibrous that myself 2 but many others have been talking about us being on the verge of a major recession even deeper than a recession if the us for instance that iran if argentina had declared a moratorium on its debt that would have triggered this giant structural crisis and the measures that are being taken now to address merchants see their temporary measures but theyre going to aggravate the long term structural dimensions but i think what bastes. Ahmed 19 or deal dreams. Been assassin or structural agree justin and what i mean by that is that Global Production change will have to reconfigure if i may you want it or not main governments including the American Government i now actively thinking about bringing the production oh. Supply home and thats hardly a positive development when the transnational capital classes. Yes but thats temporary on the contrary what i refer to as transnational elites have been some have been actually well 1st of all the measures taken by governments especially. The u. S. Government is oh is good just very similar to 2006 and those measures that only only going to aggravate the underlying structural contradictions of global capitalism i think the problem is with the thinking of salmond thinking and if planning because one thing that the creatures of capitalism have not been taking into account is a risk that the Global Economy can come to a halt their wage happened over the last couple of weeks and months and once you factor in that any your notion of profitability changes dramatically all of a sudden the world stops being your oyster and its easy to see how localizing production and consumption in a wide specific area may see like if they are auction and i being by extension its going to give will be governments and local communities more Bargaining Power in dealing with this huge company well this chamber that doesnt mean theyre going to get their way i mean the only way out of this crisis is a major restructuring of the system it cannot continue with this nail liberal capitalist it was a should model of the last several decades but so far what states are doing in a suggestion way that the principle state in the world the strongest in the world the United States is repeating what we did in 2008 which is to send mr amounts of resources to the banks so you are right that we cant continue the way we were and youre also right that a lot of transnational beats and state officials are recognizing that but that doesnt translate into the banks and the Global Corporations that drive the Global Economy to actually force them to undertake major restructuring and there is a robinson to be a fairy fairy i think what we see around the world is the governments giving assistance not only to use and Large Industries but also to die most vulnerable citizens there is a lot of talk about reduction of basic income. Many governments are sending checks that are here and maybe thats not an odd but i think that. Thats a bit of a difference from how it was handled in 2008 lets look at this the figure and this is the economist magazine economist just gave us a sticker that already 7 trillion dollars have been approved at least stimulus packages just in to European Union and the United States 1st of all the vast majority of that is going to corporate balance and secondly its going into injection of money into the banks to do it they want the banks are not obliged to help yes yes theyre released true grounds but theyre not going to resolve the structural crisis theyre basically crimes that are better in some countries like germany and denmark right here in United States 2400. 00 for a family of you know 2 bread winners is absolutely nothing its irrelevant perms and well when you multiply it by millions that have actual lot of money you take him out of a state coffers you know its a few billions of dollars its absolutely not and but but look at Something Else also theres also billions of dollars here in the United States going to Small Business they are getting long in 3 months they have to pay back that no roads so theres no real fundamental restructuring here the same thing for instance the i. M. F. Just announced a trillion dollar package for poor countries and us and its and a moratorium on current more tournament pavements but once they have to resume payments were going to be back in the same situation make it out to get there on the internet isnt it also a chair that initially one shadows sat. Stimulus measures right now as they were in one line with what has been done before but i think the governments are and asking it as they go away and there is no actor there youre reading a discussion in the United States can be written off in the companys hed die and lawyers or the majority of the employees employed so. I think we can be certain how this house from this day is going to ultimately manifest itself that well lets put it like this the battle for what will happen after the Health Emergency itself rastas is now underway and there are certainly many who i sincerely among states among transnational waste that are saying we need a major restructuring and this is the starting point for these kind of can as in stimulus measures and the really programs and if these voices win them then that would be that would certainly be a way forward but currently we dont have any indication that theyre going to win and the real economic and financial risk me main with the banks and we name with those sectors of the globe or corporate class that are simply pushing for more profit making and more sturdy now you mentioned a moment ago that they see this crisis as a crisis of state legitimacy and i think Many Political scientists would disagree with you because. They would suggest that this crisis if anything has reasserted the importance of a nation state you mean just like you dont own child i know you do but it is dont know chopras telling g. M. What to do not the other way around hasnt called it 19 actually reasserted the importance of nations maybe as a way to reorganize our social lives absolutely im not arguing anything differently and on the contrary the crisis demonstrates that we need the state we need sentence attention in the market in the economy we need state regulation when i speak about a crisis of state richard a receiver generally im not referring to that own research into how billions of people around the low. World dont consider their own governments in their own states legitimate dont trust in those governments and in a capitalist system to resell their survival needs. To mention chunk i know one of the articles here accusing him of quote criminal inaction and as a spy i took it upon himself to close the borders before it became Standard Practice he took a lot of criticism for that as well im sure one can find many faults with his actions but isnt it inevitable that any government would be elaborate in dealing with so many and elams. And then in the case of look up trump this is very clear the timeline is very clear on january 30th the World Health Organization declared a local and global emergency and trump all he did after that announcement was to suspend flights from china and we lost all of that during the 1st quarter part question of march it wasnt until march 14th the truck just layered a National Emergency so we lost 6 weeks and during those 6 weeks trump was saying that this is a democratic hopes that the whole economy is going to reopen in april 1st that more people die of the flu than of this pandemic so absolutely you cant defend trump is criminal inept its a no thats not the case for other governments around the world i mean look at the fantastic job of the south korean government gitmo chinas reopened again but as far as is trump i would defend that criminal ineptitude and i know that you have an issue with glorious add that as a moral and ethical category ad previous a couple of years ago that indy beautiful fair world of the future will have to i donned a national citizenships and when it comes to and gag orders really very well line of the battle i may not well yes for a Health Emergency but thats very different than what ive been arguing we have several hundreds of millions of transnational migrants we have an increasingly globally its a great Reduction Service and Financial System and capital and corporations have been moving around the world in finance with many more accelerated fashion for the last few decades and yet people and people have been to men increasingly economies such as the u. S. Economy is dependent on transnational my grans are but puzzles my manz migrants when they go for one person to another the World Economy and play a Critical Role in that economy they dont have civil rights they dont have medical rights they dont have the rights of citizenship so thats an extremely unjust arrangements. And they are also i mean a chance imperious would tell you that they are also driving the wages down as make Labor Protections while the local. Population is far more precarious do you think theyre wrong on that. Absolutely the wrong because 1st of all here in the United States we have our right your california which is one of the best of all worlds now we have an incredible labor source shortage if this Health Crisis continues california will collapse and the majority of those articles for workers are immigrants and i dont know any u. S. Citizens that can get any job or has for Political Rights that want to go in extraordinary in the field but thats not the larger issue i think wait. A minute and after g u a week so much of isolation im sure there will be a lot of people we should use it become stronger is i mean i would call it your mike so sick and tired of it you know we have to take a short break right now and perhaps if youre. One of the. Working from home but maybe well be back in a few moments but you. Are. Stumping him as if to plan a change on the stand could you do a little spot that sent me a and. With management on that i desire to know. How much old of the. Old just you know plenty of them still. Feel some you know but show doesnt wish there was lots of. Them will push it and you still beautiful but sometimes. You put its not just on cuts the last thing you will not one of will not so it was to stop it thanks to that piece. Of a pickle. But thats how the money is used every song cycle dont play you hate you listen. To the really nice to find they can be so easy to show you something if you try. To take just a cool shops walk to sit next you dont. Give a simple response a key feature and you move on to the sort of the thing. Join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and ill be speaking to us of the world of politics or business im show business ill see a. Lot of naturals a partner William Robinson professor of sociology at the university of california Santa Barbara should i start speaking in balad the response to this pandemic i think its a bit contrary to you even ironically that the countries with the most laissez faire economies like lets say the United States. Impose chadli restrictions on businesses while a country like sweden and this became the old one and a socialist shows that we approach youre more sympathetic to you. Absolutely the traumatic a lockdown is crucial and necessary in the United States and European Countries of the and to make it but my biggest concern of we as we have to look at the whole world and the lock down which is imposed for instance in india in the Central American countries and south africa where 6070 percent of the population is in the Informal Sector and besides if they lock it down if youre homeless if you dont spam always living in one single rooms also project tony left a message that we do need at least you know in france in the United States and russia is actually a death sentence for a 100 you know hundreds of millions or billions of people in other parts of the world yeah thats actually a very Crucial Point at south isolation as a strategy if you are sending this pandemic is a privilege that not everybody can afford now and we are yet to see how different approaches that how outcomes in Different Countries i think its fair to say that for the time being more than sway then and in the United States the dow toll continues to climb but i think its also cheery that these kind of a long downeys absolutely unprecedented i mean its a shame really inventive the history of character as nothing of the sort has ever been that something on cheers shoggoth by there is this scale of bread and be out of egypt reach it was instituted almost everywhere in the world i mean the little reaches countries have done well thats right you know what but what that shows is if the major states in the world can almost overnight lock down the population and close down the economy for the Health Emergency then the same can be done through the economic and social emergency that weve been facing long before the content i mean that moves the points and that and that also through the kind of perhaps they said transnational capitalist im not as. Strong and carter planted in the actual as in your theory them to be. No i dont think that proves the point at all because again if again you know this lockdown and the paralysis of the company is very temporary but then measures taken and thats why i stressed this points earlier the measures taken to take trillions of dollars and give nots of the banks to do as they will suggests that the transnational capitalist class is going to come out of this winning unless you know theres theres both state give theres more and light members of the elites and states and unless theres also some mystery government you know mass strikes and pressures from below to do something different. I mean because europeans are talking about bad before and that if the banks in deep can keep me and read that old ways that would be true that all reduction and because as you very adequately argue you know capitalism cannot go on for the like bad being the structural imbalance that exists where you know they dont reach having all the money and the rest of us having no money to spend ultimately makes capitalism incapable of functioning why should they come up with some bare alternative for that state yes absolutely but the thing is that individual corporations individual a capitalist have only one thing that theyre interested in is maximizing profit so we need state and mess up your control and regulation will return pittel and i hate to be the point but lets remember what happened in 2008 it was clear that we needed major restructuring and from 2000 a to 2020 not only did we not get a major restructuring of the system but all of the programs were deep bench so the lessons of 2008 say that after we get these you know that helps emergent state things are going to continue to deepen to get worse unless states answered lightens elites and masses from below have the ability to impose a restructuring and an alleged. And in her you know character it on the transnational catalyst last. I know that you believe that round this has been damaged is all more at many of our societies will look more like police they say or rob there and Global Police say isnt that a bit too just ok and because even if some governments that prompts you to temptation of making this Emergency Powers more permanent their resources for maintaining this sort of regime indefinitely actually and we deplete it its not in that interest you know right before this in december 2019 u. S. Congress approved over 800000000000. 00 write the biggest military budget in in in history right now the central lloyds coordination of this crisis if you were that and we need but through centralized coordination isnt sense of occasion of control of surveillance of the movements of people and so what theres no reason to assume that they counter with states especially the u. S. They began which is a center of the world you know the global system and the military Industrial Complex theres no reason to believe that theyre going to pull back and what i call the increasing move towards of local Police States right now we have a wave of strikes and mass just consent the United States to the extent that there is more rebellion from below against Global Inequality right and against the and against everything going on to the extent that it escalates after the emergency is lifted were going to have more pressure from above to impose social control in truck connie and well look at the state take measures in any police state that matters that require centralization and i think over in this crisis may have been seen because of centralization yard talking about the many of the traditionally more essential eyes space like russia and china that has been. You know weve seen time delegation of Decision Making to regional authorities and i think even in the United States the federal gove