Reason the paralyzing. The air and. The media. Is the charge just. To discuss that im now joined by a. Friend director of Research Development. School of journalism media and culture of care and so good to talk to you thank you very much for being with us. Thank you very much for having me now karen blaming journalists or the media for creating a beehive is as old as our profession the south but. Is that really an applicable charge in these days. When it wasnt i think when the big National Governments and International Organizations like the double your children were behind the most apocalyptic predictions about both the scale and there without a t. O. Call that 19 predictions that thankfully failed to realize but created a lot of fear or perhaps a lot of justifies here and on the left. Well i think that obviously the pandemic is an extremely scary situation for everyone around the world and its also extremely important for you insist to have access to information about whats happening in the crowds and now i think that its obviously important to balance what is obvious the reporting around a phrase scary situation with also managing the emotions audiences who already i think in many cases finding this is a true medic times goes through. I think that she dish no media have belief stepped up next coverage of the pandemic under extremely challenging circumstances and this i think is particularly important because weve seen this as a 1st kind of social media can date where this information from a variety of different sources being shared circulated and social media and then information may not be as reliable as information that audiences get from more traditional established media organizations karen lee said a moment ago and the traditional media have really stepped up to the play during this paradigmatic what makes you believe thats the case can you give some examples of that i didnt find this coverage for some time ever since the outbreak started in china and i think initially we did see a lot of fairly fear inducing and scary coverage in the Mainstream Media i think that what were seeing now is that the condemn it has become this all consuming events that affects all of us and i think all sectors of society and when i say then media has stepped up what i mean is that should ishall newspapers and broadcasters gleacher trying the best they can to provide. The lively information under the 6 unit challenging circumstances that is not to say that i think that the media are always getting it right. And its also not to say that. This coverage is always the to be assuring fact a lot of it is quite scary. But i think that the media do have a say the role to play now im sure you teach your students as i was taught them i j school that the task of journalists is to be a governments watchdog meaning that they have to be not just critical but employing Critical Thinking in analyzing Government Policies and when it comes to the log data there is a heated debate among scientists appall imo if you give me all a just on the advocacy of the quarantine measures in downing the pandemic there are many process and cons to it and yet if we look at the media especially the traditional media they are almost uniformly indorsing the quarantine measures as are the governments why do you think there is so middle questioning of the rationale in the traditional media. So i think that what were seeing in the context of this and to make is that the reporting of science has probably become more important now than it ever has before and i think that. The media are reporting the debates around the consequences of the lock down obviously theyre also they much driven in their reporting by statements made by government officials for example who changes be the ones who say the agenda and here its obviously extremely important in this kind of position to hold the politicians accountable for their actions. So in a sense i would say that scientists have become. Stars of the show and they have become important sources well information innocent to me but its out isnt that always the case of journalists have been strained specifically on how the court and science in absolute s. S. Their cases may be able to base their own ramons and cysts well since you mentioned scientists as spoken to a number of if you can they all exist in recent weeks and many of them are convinced that the current response to call that 19 is no longer within the reality of the ology its its it and i dont logical and political issue more than anything else the politicians need to be seen as sparing no resources to save lives which is good the problem is that theyre back to me prioritizing the lives of corbett 9000 patients. All rare other lives there is a a rise in the heart attacks when all of that from a lot of surgeries have been postponed when many victims of the spend democrat who have nothing to do recovered 99 percent of their suffering nonetheless and i know that many doctors aches. Primly uncomfortable with basic kind of tree asking because this is ultimately a tree i ask problem who does this they decide to prioritize and riyadh theres a very little discussion i read who in the Larger Society of whether we are ranked you you know. Assign a 2nd degree a priority to your lets say Heart Patients as opposed to call with 9000 patients who gad their very 1st priority treatment right now. Well i think obviously this is a tremendously challenging and difficult situation and i think that we do see that reflected in the coverage and i think weve also seen a kind of shift both in terms of public debate and in terms of Public Opinion over time because i think that initially there was extremely widespread support for quite extreme measures now obviously does a certain level of that seek setting in the present well and also an increased concern around Central Economic consequences i think that we are seeing these reflected in the Media Coverage so having done a small. Study of todays cut which we can see that coverage of the financial crisis that are down i think freezingly prominent Media Coverage that at this point i think we can as a brand as fast the potential consequences. Of the introduced matters and bob as they keep piling out ethan will be Mainstream Media the traditional media will be just as aligned with state policies on common 1000 as they are by and large the coverage is whether it is that russia or in the you can be a. At its they to some rare exceptions is a more or less in favor all the on the matter is introduced by the government do you think this will remain the case as this means turn sour region they certainly will at least on the economic front. Well i think that what we seeing now is a sort of classic. Kind of element in terms of the Media Coverage where initially there was a great deal of consensus around its decision to. Completely know that its becoming politicized and becoming scrutinized also by opposition politicians around the world we are seeing more criticisms of political steps being taken and also more consideration of consequences so this is something that ive looked at in different colors explains this in denmark where originally from and where the opening up of society has happened a bit sooner than elsewhere we have seen a shift from overwhelming support for the actions of the danish Prime Minister to knock down early and. In a quite significant way and now were then beginning to see a lot of questioning of the specific ways in which science is being opened up and i think well see this. Around the world what bugs me the most is that nobody has really ask and nobody has actually clearly explained whether we need those. Downs in the 1st 4 days because. You know you would understand that from. Just equal point of view definitely the governments need at some time you know to create craig that extra bad capacity to build new medical facilities to train the doctors but locking people from monza now and you know its a its a very questionable decision from an if youre a logical point of view i mean its not good. Exactly clear and thats going to prevent them from the virus because once they back charo they will encounter it. Sooner or later and when they encounter as they will need that have you know back immunity that bath metabolism reach definitely do not improve when you see it at home with you know the phrase the tally and the couch it almost seems that the bigger the mall monumental decision this you were the questions being asked. Yeah i mean except well its really really interesting and one trace of density moment of Media Coverage and because we simply never faced a crisis up this kind within the lifetime most people around the world and so i think that from the beginning the spin in a sense so you know oh what was it that just hit us and what are we going to do about it we dont know what were going to do about it the only thing that we know works in this situation is a form or unseen well we actually dont know that for a fact. Its still hardly debated by i think we all are just wired there for a long long down to really decrease lethality. From this virus and im sure youre hearing about the example of sweden which decided against introducing a quarantine precisely for those reasons that they are not sure that. Work. In any case those are very top ethical dilemmas for very hard choices lets take a sure thing rask wrong down for now but well be back in just a few moments stay tuned. Well hes finally helping to russia gave her soul to the public isnt the problem the architects of the hoax along with their accomplices and the media are being exposed what did obama and by know and when did they know that well let me be held accountable. The world is driven by. 500 senators both. 100. Thinks. We dare to ask. Me. He he he. He. Welcome back to worlds apart carol and your a good friend director of Research Development and environment and the Cardiff School of journalism media and culture cat care and just make sure to break the suggested. Corona Virus Outbreak is defectors outbreak of its kind to take place in a hybrid media environment where each additional media coexist with social media and im not sure i agree with your own bad because i covered wars and that libya and in syria and not only the media environment was very much alike but also a bill lines of covers the kind of stories journalists were filing were very similar i mean in a war zone there are 2 main kinds of stories the front lines and the victims and their emotional personal stories and i see the same thing with the coverage of corbett 19 you have they they hospitals and the doctors and the victims of this pandemic dont you think that there is something today that its not only the politicians but also the journalists who are approaching this pandemic flu as a paradigm of a cult like. Well i think that we do see metaphors of war being used today widely in terms of talking about the crueler virus so its like a sort of scary invisible enemy comes to attack us and weve got frontlines in the hospitals and care homes where the doctors and nurses are at the equivalent so so just so in some ways you can see a lot of parallels in terms of looking at the condemn it hasnt were so its a metaphor thats not without its problems but i guess is also they. May tend to poke made a point terms this idea that all the citizens of a country have to Work Together to defeat this invisible enemy and i think thats a kind of political underpinnings of dont buy expensive use of that metaphor you know what you call it political i call it wartime propaganda because. Just as you cannot see and appreciate the damage the full damage or the war and the frontlines in the same extend emergency wards are not the only snapshots of the pandemic and as i mentioned before the lockdown has its own victims there are people who have. Other Health Conditions there people who lost their livelihoods there are people whose mental how who was compromised children are suffering there is a rise in Domestic Airlines around the world and there are many many other consequences dont you think that it is perhaps manipulative or increased distorting cupra trade this been demick primarily from the hospitals and government briefings well i think that 11 of the one of the issues here is obviously you dont wear this name medical staff. As the mean were. The heroes in this situation and in a sense that that is important because actually its that theyre facing great risks and dangers but at the same time its also true that were seeing a lot of other people who put themselves in harms way whether its people who work in supermarkets or who drive buses or create our rubbish there are also many ordinary people who. Are affected by the interim a consequence of the candidate so milly if we reduce it to. A trauma the case out of hospital wards where obviously failing to see the Bigger Picture of the mess of consequences of this and then it is happening across the whole of society and around the world now in your book and motions media and politics meech i highly recommend to all our viewers its a very interesting read you make an important distinction between an emotion and a mediated and motion of the bill that im being far more deliberate calculated and constructed and when it comes to the comment 19 outbreak or any other large scale event journalist always have a wide wide choice in which emotions to transmit which emotion to put 2 or 3 children to communicate to the audience and which perhaps to downplay what do you see as the dominant sentiments of this pandemic you already mentioned the gratitude the very genuine and true gratitude that we feel towards the doctors and other frontline workers but are there any other emotions that ive travelled and in the coverage of this pandemic what i see in the Media Coverage is the fear is actually the dominant emotion and thats not on us freising in the sense because we. Dealing with this unknown and scary disease and then condemning yourself as tense and a series of a frightening consequences for all of us but whats interesting to sink about is a next steps here like other emotions can be just as contagious as the disease itself and when we see something scary and when we speak about scary things we can also be sharing in spreading that fear in relation to other people while we are on the subject of p. R. Let me play the devils advocate for a while because i heard a number of doctors and Public Officials sensually the jazz that people need to be saved from themselves the most the fact you wait you can do that under the pressure of circumstances is their fear because if you scare them enough with the footage of emergency wards are the footage of the savage trees or the morris perhaps they will think twice about taking their family out. For a barbecue and thats not totally mord of common sense because you know their courage is a really struggling right now i dont want to minimize the the scale of the challenge that theyre facing and i think we need to give them credit for what theyre doing but do you think the use of fear is justified as a scare tactic as a social control tactic when its for peoples own sake. I think that we have seen an emphasis on fearing the coverage but also in terms. Of how governments have communicated. Because like you say. Here in a sense this helpful emotion in terms of making people change their behavior so it is important for politicians to communicate that this is a dangerous disease. And that therefore its important in the interests of the collective good for people to stay inside stay at home and sue a social distancing. And then at the same time i think that its important to balance the communication scaredy message just with a concern for the Mental Health and well being of the people who are actually consuming that media consent care and i think we would both agree that the media organizations have a long curated why the emotions and what information that our audiences are exposed to but i think it has never been. So open now speaking about the fact that both google and you tube both prioritized the World Health Organization as diesel or isnt called at 19 even though the rapid taishan of those who are going to zation is quite questionable in medical circles its in vice on how to proceed with regards to this been done it has been pretty inconsistent and there are many legitimate crashes about you know w h os professionalism in these circumstances i mean were not Public Health experts so lets not talk about w. H. Y. What i want to ask you about is how do you feel about the big Tax Companies not already needing the debate but actually setting the. Crimes of it and pointing to who is a reliable source on this issue and who is not. Why i would slightly take issue with your description of the w. H. O. I mean i think that this is been a bait challenging crisis for your is a shame to handle and they havent always done this in a. Manner that any missteps i dont waver none the less i think that they can be if you didnt you consider every libel and authoritative source on this subject and i think social media organizations. Have tried to make some make difficult decisions in the face of. This one starts. In x. Through misleading information thats been circulated and also based conspiracy theories so now i think becks and in in the u. K. For example if you look at Twitter Twitter will take you to the department of health and social care websites and that is simply because of potentially damaging misinformation circulating both in misinformation which is sort of. Downright dangerous so says someone who comes from so i suspect donald trump suggesting that people shouldnt take themselves with disinfectant speaking about misinformation here is another example from the United States just a few weeks ago you tear you down a briefing by certified california doctors questioning be need who are strict law down majerus where bigger is at hand i have to add media and math several 1000000 views and i think the most i wrong having named that these al