Discuss this and more im joined by my guest under i mean mean good on you in moscow is a professor at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations and in oslo we have learned these and he is an associate professor at the university of south eastern norway as well as author of russias geo Economic Strategy for a greater eurasia gentlemen crossed up close and that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was surprised ok i was going to also let you know in preparing for this program i was and were inside eden has ideas of orientalism started popping into my mind because orientalism was a way for christian west to define itself against the other other civilizations and people but it seems like orientalism as understood by slate has taken a very bizarre twist because now it is about self racism. Self loading and this is where weve gotten to because theres no theres no replacement for the history that theyre destroying its own boy and that may be intentional or not but it certainly creates conditions for creating a new past without being anchored or can restrain the past. This is true that identities are usually created in opposition to someone so you should with say the explore other west greatest identity opposition to for example the east or as a contrast what do you not see with a lot of these people is they their identity they view the other or essentially their own culture dont finish and so as you correctly point out they want to free themselves from their own past which is by definition a revolutionary moment moment now this is very problematic because. History it legitimizes that a medical institutions of the present and it also lays the foundation for a common shared identity and this is exactly their purpose it is to denounce their own history because they did that the country was founded on this crimes this great crimes. Then they have to address this in order to improve the present. Thats one of denouncing the past now this might seem reasonable because it will also civilization you know very dirty ostend one should deal with this and indeed thats probably why deceive themselves are so gorgeous. So once you recognize the wrongdoings of the past for us it will be a specialist slavery and genocide of the native americans its things that are reasonable to address this however what you now see with these people especially other in their own history the problem is. Theres actually tearing down statues theyre not saying their own history it likes this this is a new and because any country to really as you mentioned relies on history if we dont have it you reject. Legitimacy of your. Situations that seems odd to me what they want to do cause they say its all Systemic Risk is terrorism everything and also is sharing this come up empty for the whole nation which you also argue this crop of other well the problem when you do this is now you dont have any in any situations and more legitimized by the past and furthermore the us can then denigrate into mere geographical location where its just happen to be populated by random people so you cant really have a nation with this history which is why revolutionary movements if taliban or you know who are a terrorist us troops and the loss of their own history is a very dangerous practice you know underneath it and one of the interesting things as i said as i said in my introduction me history in many ways at least how most people understand it how they perceive that is is usually something that we revere a person and. A moment in time and sometimes its a warning about what can go wrong in our history and how we can learn from it but if we didnt take out the reverence and the warning at the same time youre left with a boy and how can you forgive you dont have a clear understanding of the past even if the process is very painful and lets face it most simple is ations what i say every civilization has painful moments that it was in gestation very few what would become so i mean if you take reverence and a warning bell then when he history bore. I i have no i like another definition of history i didnt want iran i. Formulated in your program. History. Is todays politics transparent into the past you know. Its very sad what were now witnessing in especially United States interest 2nd American Revolution some commentators are writing this race and describing whats going on. A lot of people are limited in slimmer it they know how big you know at least in their are right it quotes way to the white but they consider themselves that they are still in a kind of slaver it day didnt already come. Appen. 150 years or 200 years ago and thats right they dont consider the history of this country in a way as many whites are considering for doom death figures and that dont reach they are cheering down defacing this are not their heroes this are the people who you know a president who didnt consider them as a human being and didnt write for them these guys have no place in the history of it how do you read where de lit is not thats unfair for me but we dont we get into a situation where then you did it by getting grady they had that drawing down how can you how can we think about slavery and oppression and if we dont historical record of the correct meaning of that because if the people want to take down the confederates that in their own communities thats their business ok that is perfectly fine but jim mandate the end of history or that history should not be remembered is a very dangerous thing and i want to talk about what the bolsheviks did to russian history and let eventually came into it in russia when wanted to feel that. I think in this instance russia does provide some lessons in terms of revolution or in which and if initially if you tear up the future you tear up the past because you dont want to corrupt to the presence you want to create a new present which looks contaminated by. Uh so if in russia obviously the bolsheviks they saw everything in society yes i mean being corrupted by capitalism so the initial bolsheviks they really did what they could to tary thing up so everything from the family the church nationhood. As a everything was a reflection of this exploitation of capitalism so they pulled it all up and. Mainly because it was seen as being exploitation and also authoritarian however once this in came to recognize so at once theres no legitimacy based on the past they became even more aligned on brutality to create a new society and a new this actually community thats wasnt defined by history anymore and again this focus on next taking out those who it exploited them again but the horrible things are simply going to call oxen this. They said the find themselves by revolution in this continuous parish and i think that. This is again something that russia is preoccupied with today because when the soviet union fell apart again to some extent this was another revolutionary moment moment and had to deal with how do we address 7 decades of our history and again in the west we keep saying youre just have to give a blank and condon on the nation just denounce him or think of this of course very very dangerous because then you dont have a shared identity you dont have any legitimacy for your institutions so this is something i think you think for the russians how do you deal with a problematic and personally i dont think they should denounce this soviet era they should have a new instance should look at the horse the crimes were committed and take those out as still recognize the good and i think thats what theyve been trying to do so for example you know they russia now condemns you know for example the crimes of stalin it was committed in cutting but at the same time they keep goal is to salvage what they can from history what was done right so again you can look to our state you know the world war 2 history when to save europe from the ashes from you know scientific achievements theres a lot. The soviet era you know. Provide an identity and legitimacy and i think thats very important and we havent really appreciated that in the west the challenge and i think thats what the americans now are also have to recognize that yes i was just doesnt have a place but if you dont else im all together including a good idea that we lose something very important i mean you can you condemn the entire project underneath go ahead jump in yeah i think that this. Comparison is not correct because you know what is the problem. That in todays america when i 1st came to america. In 99 day. I found that this is the most non integrated society in the world because blacks were outside of society every ethnic and racial group was living in its own emilio and without having though formally de hat you know there are rights in workplaces but they never saw russia lies a day theyre isolated and when a melting pot shish the word. America turns out to be that isolated island ended will underneath there. Are just just all the other bitter vicious very important gains and until now blacks can see theyre dead they are out of society and this is exactly the case thats why tearing down this white slave owners they are trying to reassess and to give their own interpretation of the history and. They considered that they are not in total part. This country guests are. Trained to up and nod their history at what does it mean to have an outer history their representation in statutes on descriptors represent a sham inquiry columbus in history literature bullshit in different places when the 1st time i came to a berkeley and 99 days i was amazed ron one of the professors from russia he said listen its very strange things happening this. Black editors are telling to get composition of professors is a to present white 20 percent black but composition of still dont age to percent black. And 20 percent white would need to vote at just this you know structure ok so we need more social engineering thats what youre saying but its very dangerous we have a break before we go to the break underneath. That. Id like to point out underneath your candor ramp of liberal each other my friend id like to end the 1st part of the program with a reminder to you that a black man was elected president of the United States twice and it was white people they voted for him to assume office so i think we have to not go to the extremes right here or im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on state. Join me every thursday on the alex simon show and ill be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business im showbusiness ill see you then. The world is driven by dream shaped by our own person. In the day or thinks. We dare to ask. Nuclear power become a battleground in the us in vermont people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because its a very dangerous oh no prayer power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limits this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on wheres the power in this country wheres it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is power live with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in the very real ways our struggle on r. T. Well connected crossed up where all these are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were talking about cultures. Ok let me go back to the glen in the last. You know it seems to me that this is another attempts. By a very sproule age group of people intent is not the impression of the working class it really is coming from academia and its the of this this ideology that has been so hot for decades now i remember when i was at university in the early 1990 s. And now it seeped into the political system here and this is an attempt to brookville to create a new man or excuse me new person well the road record of that is pretty poor i would say look at the french revolution the bolshevik revolution a little bit pol pot did in cambodia i mean the road record is quite or disastrous destructive but it seems to me because these people want to destroy history they dont want to learn from history go ahead plan. Well again as there must at definition of a revolution again the economist wanted to create communist men liberated from his own past and thats a kind of what youre seeing now so well you see this attempt to create this new western man liberated from his own you know flow past with of course racism being a key part of it and however underneath argued i would disagree in terms of the roach because usually i would argue that this kind of revolutionary a it could seem reasonable when when there was a side the country reform itself and i agree i think identified this problem this bigger geisha to a large extent was still exists however if you look at the numbers it looks like americans i think there was a race is capable of reforming itself if you look at all the to from marriage between races steering inclusion. And its use and hold and this is all i would say seems to be pointing in the right direction so i think there is room for improvement now in terms of the approach again or again or recognizing a lot of the same issues are you when you came to the u. S. In the ninetys i didnt get to keep problem or the disagreement is how you see society improving and you have to do different parts you know to call it the or you equity they call it essentially saying like blacks whites asians should all be treated the same and over time differences will start to change himself of course youll always have some cultural differences the problem with a quickie is you demand equal outcome right away and for movies with as example are you know 80 percent white or fessor you have to take into account if your recent demographic changes as well and once you do this it would be your sessions saying well we need less rights for example more blacks and then you begin the social engineering where everyone is judged based on the color of their skin based on their gender and then i guess you will have the opposite outcome because once you have you know a black life matters and you will get on to the bright. Like my last letter as well and then you can have this right wing identity politics which youre now on the left so i think the dangerous route to go down so again and also its difficult because you have this racial groups we should just mention blacks and asians theyre very different in the us for example blacks will get higher scores to get easier for them to get into universities asians actually perform better than whites they actually get punished for being a sions so you really need and this is going for them shows after iran is judged based on their skin under gender Sexual Orientation etc saying we need to quote iran has the same opportunity the outcome might be the same as opposed to do the social engineering where you try to have everything. The outcome being exactly the same were some race have to be pulled out of the stuff because. It is a dangerous path living underneath the media thing it this is all based on big demolished g ok equity you know it in terms of what glenn was just saying there you know eat the more youre a victim of the of the system of history the more that your elevated well and thats not a way to create a. Society that is functional i mean it may make you feel good it may make you you know versus signally and all that but it in any function youre functionality of that it is it simply. It creates try to lose a share and read and people that feel that theyre not part of the process so i am i think that you know this ideology thats coming out of the universities its basically cultural marxism and really it really jumps aside the real issue thats going on in its class because there are millions and millions of poor people of color and white people at the same time and this ideology is dividing them when they actually mean a whole lot more in common then then then then the elites really want them to know what lives not very very convenient but the all the guards that run the economy and the politicians that are in there on the wire. I think that because of Political Correctness in American Society there was never ever especially during this last several big 8 open discussion about Race Relations and the problem is that everybody is afraid of telling a spade a spade you know because not good it is telling blacks that and they had enormous success during the dish especially 50 years when i was in new york in the 5th on unaired 25th in it was 50th anniversary of john underwrite Political Rights desegregation and all this kind of things but even at that time a lot of leaders of black community. People like l. Sharpton and many others they were considering that Nothing Happened no progress still there if big difference in economy still is a big difference in different areas ratios mundo this kind of think but not when it was telling that black left matter is a radical racist organization because they dont consider that right or life matter and just what what is the danger in Current Situation in that one day which such a you know such a pleasure on stretching their feet who like to just they have heat and theyre sure what this could create their reaction on behalf of white people and they can create their own organisation white light in math and a lot of them are not happy to see how black the left matter organisation is drank to human. And destroy or do you carry ditch which was created by White American tradition america dish to get depressed problem and give those divide 8 in American Society that that is the ideology and the message of it let me go to glenn right now i mean what that one of the most important outcomes of the Civil Rights Movement was the Voter Participation so go its go look at all of the cities that are almost all the cities that have been bernie over the last few weeks run by democrats very often by africanamerican mayors. Who least sheaves i mean they they got the rightfully got the vote the promise of the constitution of the quality and bridges patient political life and then you have all of these cities that are so badly run and now they want to turn around and its all because of racism which is absolutely nonsense its bad governance and i would say bad governments it was allowed to happen because thats politically correct and comfortable and again i will not repeat i will not move away from the issue of last week when you look at the issue of cost and have the countrys basically poor right now poverty doesnt it doesnt address attract itself just to one race to all races and when we dont look at this these inequalities its peo