International social rankings a which finland ranks 1228 and there is no other country in the world bank 1st 2nd or over 100 matches and you explain that in no way is this because finland is are isolated from geopolitical history this is despite having a turbulent past sandwiched between east and west russia and sweden in its case how did it manage to navigate and i know you go into great detail just briefly added manish and i gave on either side to empires just over a century ago finland was one of the poorest parts of europe and examples of war use of people. It ended up in a way on the whole side in the 2nd world war had a reparations after that by not being dominant by actually having been a colony of sweden the colony of russia a colony actually in germany at what point. Will have to Work Together and. Did there was incredible struggles in the ninetys this is in seventys a change in education Something Better in hindsight you could say that finland has an advantage of not having been dominant in the past of not having a supercilious attitude about itself in a way in europe finland is kind of the opposite of england in there was a heart of the biggest empire about 70. 00 finland was one of the colonies of fundamental though to this happened as according to your book is the idea of equality a sign i dont know whether the Finnish Communist Party never went away there was a cause a civil war that you chart it never embrace the reagan fashion world fully even though there were from time to time departures into privatisation which of course led to it to suffering 2008 yes it did. A little bit to the finish complete with this communist party left that there actually in the left party which is much more dominated by a full of womens parties the left party in finland is part of the common government and the lives of 5 parties so if the left in britain want to look. For what they should do they really should look at finland where left wing parties left of social democrats came together and actually stopped fighting each other feel and have so many lessons so many people back out of these things that yeah you talk about womens rights you and your coauthor of course writing in britain where a one figure came out during this pandemic that most children are one paycheck away from not having enough to eat just explain some of the social protections that you suggest are essential for happiness oh what a difference i mean a Current Situation in england is truly awful the treasury produced or polls on the 8th of july claiming that the poll is borne anybody out to b. B. C. News stories to an ounce of Commons Select Committee is a Treasury Committee and a public rez committee dominated. By conservatives boast that ming about government but for the lack of say security and the fact that man if you look at the Standard Life data were looking at 10000000 households possibly 25000000 people in serious financial difficulty and it buys it finland had been storing p. P. A. Protective equipment in case of pandemic it is extremely hard to end up on the streets in finland and even are that the fly depth in the by this lake has the lowest times thats right in the whole of europe. Finance spends the most educationally and this is where it beats i was going to raving on trees or nordic countries spends the most on the bottom quarter of children a quarter who have the poorest the who are you might have done worse the school they have the most spent on the contras the haps the guy you can guess who we spent it eventually the most money on well what is it actually its not arms is it. When i know we spend 33 percent of all the money that we spend on secular education goes on the 7 percent of you to go to private school yet private schools emerges as a as a theme in the education chapter i mean do you see it as essential the destruction of a private Education System to create. A more equal society that will then create Human Happiness its quite you know the story in finland isnt so much of that in that never had much of a private education. Schooling system in fact most of us never did its a very good english and slightly scottish thing the big battle in finland was against grammar schools and sixties and seventies and selective education and the idea of educating all but also finland has has one i would idea that anything goes school should be good you shouldnt have parents worry about their children going to figure schools simply by the universities there is a university hierarchy. But it is. And degree certainly universities which is seen more towards the bottom are seen as very very high value your complete equal of like the idea that the masters degree from a university in finland might help less because of where where that comes from isnt there i mean if you think about you it was like a kind of trust to children 1st your children in many ways when it comes to captivates Life Expectancy the pandemic inequality we can all see the it has at the bottom of most of the rankings the view of states and finland is at the top so its like picking the child he does best at school itll be them every chance you know and it can it can get a bit great looking at the going to how well and how good finland does there are all kinds of reasons as to why because there always will be european country does better on average than all of your big countries you have if youre not not great to hear the britain is doing so badly but if anyone thinks finland is somehow alien you do show that its been affected by the vicissitudes of globalization you say we know it from nakia of course the Telecoms Market they got into there because presuming it was dark and big distances and lots of snow but then too they too were affected by globalization theyre going to be now maybe by sanctions on china and they too tried out some elements of well not the full lansley approach weve done here to privatizing National Health services but they also tried different types of marketization in their services theyre not that alien now no theyre not they make mistakes but whats interesting is the country that that small few people and was at some point so reliant on them like mark units and its inca or bust and spread out over what they do you can suddenly see nakia collapse in the last most popular company its been beaten by mouth advertising so we now spend. I thought on home that one of those actually is the little about they bounce back and there is a there is a resilience there is the idea that you have to really do it in the south and it isnt an amateur its an audience you see any United States now were the best in a while make America Great again great there isnt the outfits that you see in britain which i think comes from going in and by human and by telling ourselves that you deserve that but. Equally you will feel and its we have to work hard we have to learn we have to be able to do the same but dont let other people get above. The exploit that was because that will be in a fish this is to 6 of the most shocking that we found well that Work Life Balance they were about how people and people without the great people without high school of occasions where most able to choose what hours they worked. And you can see this if you go to helsinki and try to get yourself something to eat at 9 or 10 oclock at night into really hard because nobody wants the washing dishes dishes and never look at night the most money does the couple was when fit in and produce the lowest mortality rate in World History if you were 100. 00 babies died in one year if. You know thats absolutely stunning one might say that ok finland hasnt had the genocidal history of the United States against native americans Indigenous Peoples the britons colonial or legacy is it all over now though i mean there are sanctions being imposed on china virus johnson obviously has expelled the hallway of a 5 g. Seems to say ones nakia from finland not. Completely dependent on chinese component also there are sanctions threatened on russia which presumably will also hit the finnish economy as russia has a big trade trading partner of finland it cant get away this time every. Ive. Been in tricky situations before you got a member the film was on the border of the cold war it was in the most dangerous place when we were preparing to fight a nuclear war in the middle of europe. I think it will get away with this not least as the power of the us i. Now only 5 companies have kept their share price in america that flexed. Apple microsoft the deep these cant these companies are exploiting the rest of the world producing something with google so its a 5th one she says something that isnt that hard to do a Search Engine is not that clever delivering goods by truck on electric this is not that clever america the pens almost 5 monopoly companies as it annoys the rest of the world were going to start to look at why are you using those 5 american Countries Companies for its distribution of goods for its entertainment. Were going to start looking at doing it in different ways i think certainly the friends of famous for diplomacy nobodys going to tell the americans and their face you know really really really annoying us now but i do think america shot itself in the foot one time too many and really would not be concerned about its power over than of course its enormous military. Those 5 presumably companies obviously say what they do is very complicated and very innovative. About the facebook i could a bit about how to facebook when i was a University Student why didnt you thats what my exact words were tell you i was going to finish by asking you ok of you think finland is going to manage to traverse this complicated minefield ahead of it in terms of geopolitical Economic WarfareClimate Change due to finland what nothing else has its one of the biggest fears in finland which is why finland that that it is so i think net 0 for 25 like 15 years i had the u. K. Why does there have been more Green Technologies asked than anyone else i know is life in the forefront of producing proteins only meat and do not require sunlight and soon as you know because i like to buy proteins you really cant use an enormous amount of food in the. Area its ironic really that some of the people in the wild to live in the least in winter and summer does get swayed to graze but in winter some of the coldest parts of the planets are worrying most about Climate Change does your state has the fins i think over their Global Outlook the magnanimous way in which they operate because if you value each other equally if you see people as well while sigal country its easier to see people outside you can choose while as well president enjoying thank you. After the break does kobe buying team have seasons we investigate the potential resurgence in the spread of coronavirus in the coming months with the director of Columbia Universitys climate and Health Program all of them all going up about to going underground. While the pandemic no certainly no borders and is blind to nationalities. Has emerged we dont come with the we dont look like seeing the whole world needs to be. Judged as coming close to sleep sometimes. We can do better we should. Everyone is contributing each of our own way but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever the challenges create the response has been masked so many good people are helping us. It makes us feel very proud that we are in it together. A dark industry comes to life in los angeles every night. Dozens of women sells their bodies on the street many of them underage. Los Angeles Police reveal a taste of their daily challenge if youre going to exploit for a child here in los angelos are there were going to come as you see officers going undercover as sex workers and customers to fight 6 trades. One else seemed wrong. Just on. Me while yet to see how just being become educated and in detroit equals betrayal. When someone find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. Welcome back around a virus has killed over half a 1000000 like a hurricane as disproportionately ended the lives of the vulnerable but how valid is the metaphor of a hurricane as we approach winter when according to one study the u. K. Alone may see 120000 more killed Columbia University research as argue that not only good lives have been saved earlier but that it may be possible to predict a virus like you predict the weather the director of Columbia Universitys climate and Health Program professor geoffrey shaman joins me now via skype from new york city thank you so much jeffrey for coming on so weve heard about the influence of manmade Climate Change on creating new pandemics on this show before but youre working on the relationship between climate forecasting and forecasting in flu. And so just tell me about the Research Well its a components of it really one is actually using climate conditions try to understand how they affect the survival the viability the transmissibility of different types of pathogens such as influenza and that sort of a direct relationship between atmospheric conditions and what are the outcomes for Infectious Diseases the other component though is to use the methods that are used to generate numerical weather prediction that is the framework the mathematical and statistical approaches and apply them to Infectious Disease systems generate forecasts of those systems we sometimes actually combine the 2 methods together to make an even better prediction system but thats the gist of it thats what were trying to do and try to make something that will give us some insight into what is coming our way in the future well when you live on an island like britain its not a focus from a day to day but we havent had the day to day week to week press conferences and so on telling us about deaths infections and so on of coronavirus you really think that the aim here in the possibility it holds out is that we may be able to focus week to week prevalence of cove that i actually dont and that may come as a shock to you because i dont think that theres a point where we certainly are still political ones for coping 19 and the reason is that were disrupting it so much in order to make a prediction of a hurricane making landfall for instance you dont expect Human Society and endeavors to disrupt what that hurricane does similarly when we make predictions of seasonal flu humans are fairly predictable about what they do they dont change their patterns and we dont do that much to disrupt it so we can make predictions based on the dynamics and the environmental forcing of that system but for covert 19 the world is taking it with a different very different approach its highly disruptive and whats going to happen in the future is strongly depends on what we as societies do what our political leaders dictate we should do is are there shelter in place orders are there compelling mask use. And what the general public is going to do are they going to isolate are they going to search distance or are they going to use the mass and how well because we dont have a crystal ball into Human Behavior both politically and at an individual level to say what the public will do were not making forecasts of what will happen or over 90 i should add though that doesnt mean we dont try to project possible future outcomes we do do that we try to scope out one of the range of possibilities and you might ask well why bother doing it if it cant be specific and the aim there is to try to suss out what are the possible realistic things that could happen what are the end members one of the guy posts that are going to say how bad this might get or how bad it might not be dependent on what we do but its not really a forecast where its going to tell you how many cases were going to have because were being much to disrupt it with this virus were trying to stop it so aside from the political decisions on lockdowns on mosques and so on you can though still find correlations of a kind with. Maybe no wind speed maybe no precipitation would Say Something like temperature so that can be added into the mix of our analysis as i said there was analysis he ever Southampton University saying 120000. 00 could be killed here this winter. Right and so what theyre looking at there is a 2nd wave coming in now there have been a number of studies that have been put together that have tried to look to see whether or not this disease this pathogens r c o b 2 is sensitive to conditions such as u. V. Radiation temperature and humidity conditions and one of the reasons why we look at that is that there are 4 endemic coronaviruses these are viruses that are circulating in our mitts all the time they cause very mild illness they go by funny names like o c 43 and h k you want or what we notice because we have been tracking them for that long simply because theyre very mild but weve noticed over the last 67 years is that in fact they are very seasonal and there seasonality mirrors that of influenza in that they peak in december january and february and theyre very minimal in their activity in the summer months so theres concern with this novel virus which is also coronavirus and its related to these viruses that it may have some innate seasonality when people have looked at it what they have found is there is some evidence that it does have some seasonality its not enough to stop it in the summer time though right now because theres too little immunity in the population and the virus itself is too aggressive but it may not be as transmissible