Country on the other hand by many in his or bridge claim nothing will fundamentally change so which is it or is it as always just about power. To discuss this and more im joined by my guest laura fink in san diego she is the founder and c. E. O. Of rebel communications as well as a democratic strategist and in Ellicott City we cross to Jason Nichols he is a political analyst as well as a senior lecturer in the africanamerican studies department at the university of maryland right across not rules in effect that means he can jump and he want and i always appreciate it oh as good as any angle are you that i always go to the person that gets up early for the program so im glad its you you know im a political junkie like the both of you and i watch a lot of Different Things i disagree with most of it great. A tiny bit of it but if you you know if were in this election cycle lets take for example fox ok the impending dystopia if joe biden is going to be elected now i think that things could change when you look at the people around him but you have 2 very starkly different interpretations of what a man. You know go ahead well look i do go on fox news occasionally i understand the culture there and but they and the fox you disagree with those policies they want to demonize that that and talk about it as an as if its extreme also you know this is we are no action here and so talkin socialism will rise and so its uganda im as frightened channels that call really is to stir up the base and to instill estie here on the rising left now that sad absolutely the left is on the rise and and the political left has gone and galvanize like never before in the age of donald trump so we see not just ideals move forward and the public conversation and opinion moving to the last but we also see firebrand leaders like alexandria ocasio kirk has anything like Bernie Sanders that are able to carry that with a new generation of voters and isnt same question you know it was an excellent answer more about him yeah i think well as far as dystopian outcomes from leadership i dont think we can get any more dystopian than we are right now i think were in a very precarious situation as a nation and. Were going to get that donald rumsfeld. I think a lot of that is i think you always should point to the top and look at leadership when your leadership variables then the country variables and then the country is torn apart were divided were not the United States of america and that all that ultimately falls on in the lap of the leader in our leader right now is donald trump in here has not done what we look for and leadership he has not accomplished what most leaders want to do which is to actually unite the people behind a common cause not unite house the country behind one person i think there where we look at some of the narratives that weve seen in media i think learn how to correct them. You know there is a you know objective for one side or the other whether its fox or as n. B. C. Or some of the Smaller Networks they all have a merit of that they want to tell him that they want to show him and you know we could talk about the political left but i think its a very good turn where youve got someone like joe biden who has been moderate you know we dont have to because laura i mean it may be its a big tent right now i mean and its the thing is i look at it is that its really has very little were going to talk about policy still but it has very little to do with policy it has everything to do with donald trump this is a referendum on his presidency its not really on the policy built if joe biden comes in its not could it be easy street for the Democratic Party and its rough relationship with his progressive members right here so so united tent now because of you donald trump your reaction well weve got donald trump for a long time and we havent had a united 10 i mean we go all the way back to 2016 so its not i would say that certainly donald trump is a galvanizing force but it also it is it is it is not only the institutional leaders like joe biden that have a long history and record of experience in the Democratic Party but its also the willingness of the political left to play ball and we see that again with alexandria cost you as though being for palosi as speaker coming in and working within the system i mean i think that thats about understanding how far to your earlier point here she understands power fundamentally at which she 29 years old and has learned that she can galvanize her or her community outside of the halls of congress and then use the power of their power to bring it to the halls of congress in the halls of power in a different way than media activists might expect the power of the political left is on the rise lets not forget i mean in 20 team we won with the moderates so the democrats marched and took over the congress with moderates and mostly moderate women so i do believe that fundamentally theres some political gravity in congress that wont she. Ange however the needle is moving you know when joe biden is having weekly conversations that the list gets war and about how to execute policy then that is a sea change from you know his days with the each neoconservatives on his sort of intellectual squash the mentally the American People have moved and the politicians have moved with new and old you think theyre really conversations ive seen some of them not really conversations but anyway thats a subject for another program jason i know that because youre a frequent guest on this program are very grateful but you were Bernie Sanders supporter. Do you have it is it is the is there a burning feeling in your stomach you must vote for joe because of donald trump not because you love joe what i think thats how politics work i think 4 you know we take the options that we have and we vote for the person that we think will do the job better in this case it is joe biden when i look at him and donald trump you know politicians are the candidates that we have available which one is i think the stronger leader and which one is better versed in Foreign Policy which one will do better with domestic policy and which one is interested in are more interested in the issues that i think are important for the American People and right now i think thats joe biden now joe biden were running against someone else i think it would be different and i want to be clear when i said big tent i didnt say united 10 were not always united and i think one of the things that is that i think thats actually a good thing i think one of the things that laura pointed out is the fact that there are conversations and i think what joe biden is doing correctly right now is that he is making it clear that the Progressive Left will at least be listened to and that theyll be part of the conversation now that you are at the table not necessarily that hes going to repeat them all the time its not enough for you to be listening to you i mean after doing that you still willing to just be you know youll accept being listened to when im not trying to be you know a dictator the part of god or of the United States i want to be part of the conversation i want to be heard and you know i want for it to be a star i want to affect change i cant go along and say that everything i want should happen right now i think that you try to push for those things which you also have to work within the structures that exist and i think thats what its about for a long time people like joe biden actually have ignored. Young voters theyve ignored the Progressive Left and theyve even made fun of them at times and now they realize that this is a Political Force that is growing and they could not be donald trump or anyone else without having them at the table and so now hes willing to talk hes willing to make concessions which is the right thing to do i think that the right does the same there are slightly smaller but you have some people who are closer to the center and then you have some people who are really are you have conversations in the Tea Party Caucus did quite well ok and to transform the g. O. P. Not necessarily in a good way might i am not a republican im a conservative i dont really have anything to do with the republican splits you know well yeah but you know i kind of think that the progressives have been less affected in the Democratic Party let me go to you one of things i find very very curious is it going to go on fox and then we hear from the president himself theyd like to invoke the word socialism as to scare people but i think if you look at Public Opinion polls a lot of younger people find that to be very positive terms i guess i sometimes find these g. O. P. People to be so tone deaf to whats actually people are thinking about a time when im a former academic in the early 1990 s. Socialism was very popular at the university of california it just seeped into the culture of your reaction. I think the debate about socialism its kind of a silly one. Due respect to the terms and to the right wing media because it really is about policy whether it works hash yourself to a particular philosophical label all ultimately this is Kitchen Table politics do you have health care and how do you get it do you have a job and how do you get it what happens when you lose your chops should i even job a job or is it just are we all just our own independent contractors you know getting with our apps higher being hired with no say. And i might say thats bipartisan you cant pin that on one party thats for sure to keep going were fighting that battle here in california and i think its it is its and its an important one to talk about because people arent thinking about am i a socialist or not most of the time theyre thinking about can i buy a house and i want to be able to feed my family or my rights going to be protected in the workplace and i am i going to carry the burden of the nations of the cost of the nation or are wealthy people going to pay their fair share you know if im a woman or im a person of color and im going to be respected in for to the same rights in the constitution as everybody else or as a power dynamic different those are the things that people think about and share about deeply and so i think that the debate about socialism is an invention to try to polarize people rather than talk about the ideas they might be our only agree because im actually i didnt come in this piece during europe in the 1980 s. I know what socialism is ok i always find i think a kind of irreverent chuckle when people Start Talking about it and i think most americans couldnt find venezuela on the map in their life depended on it same point to you jason. Yeah i think i would agree i think more of this is about policy so i would agree with laura i think also as you stated the young people are not afraid of the term because they know what socialism is. Ok but i dont if you look hollow from a philosophical standpoint and from a theoretical standpoint they understand that we have socialism all around us we have socialism that are late night that is of service rich people certainly have so she wasnt really there is you know i think it was dr king said you know we have rugged individualism for the poor and socialism for the rich so you know it may call you know for the poor they call it welfare they call it handouts or they call it socialism but you know for the wealthy they call it sux. Cities or actually for people certain races its a subsidy others its welfare so again i think that we absolutely how socialism in this country and its functions in some cases for the public good. You know we can talk about Social Security you know we can talk about medicare about all modeled. After our break here im going to jump in here were going to go to a short break and after a short break and you know what discussion is the left radical in america stay. The world is driven by. The day or. Week day or to ask. Welcome back across town where all things are considered on peter is about to remind you were talking about whether the Democratic Party has been radicalized. It was going to send you a lot of talk about a lot of issues here well you know in looking at some of the characterizations of the political left in the United States right now there are these issues the crack in the court the Electoral College. You know getting rid of it amnesty up to 23000000 people renu deal whatever that really means open borders the funding the police the filibuster these are all related to the left and reacted at least one of them ok go ahead. Well i you take in the most conservative labeling and framing of all of those issues labels are fair i think pretty much fair well if you can badger and bad but we dont call it amnesty you know weve got Immigration Reform you know so so lets talk about lets talk about all of those issues of political left is on the rise and they have and they certainly have an agenda that said you know also really people what extent all of the things that youre talking about whether its policy onion firemans policy on immigration policy on criminal Justice Reform and Police Reform there are broad swaths of the American People you didnt mention you didnt mention gun safety all of these issues are top issues for americans in the cans and out of the can so much and weve seen gridlock in congress you know masterfully executed by Mitch Mcconnell now for many many years and when broad swaths of the American People want to see and i see this independents included in that moderate democrats included in that and even slice up republicans included in that so the political left just cheering water on issues that Americans Care deeply about i think youre going to see action on those issues when we come back to congress especially if democrats take back the senate absolutely yeah but again one of the things that i mentioned are institutional changes jason giving manipulatory college ok packing the court ok i mean this is trying to create a political monopoly adding i forgot to adding. The district of columbia state to more senators which would be 99 percent sure democrats i mean ive come to many liberals about this and they say you know what we have an imperfect democracy maybe. But at the same time you know if these are creating institutional changes in which they would create a monopoly for ever the where the left would be in control they didnt win and getting rid of the filibuster is well your reaction its so number war and when it comes to wasnt. In d. C. Do you believe in taxation without representation. Yeah like thats not very democratic thats not that bob is that now more on the back are down with eyes wide open and it is evening. And i mean let me let me just say taxation without representation in many ways is tyranny and i actually think you know its not going to go to propound reasons right be honest although we know that washington d. C. One of the reasons ted kennedy actually said it said it out plainly is because its too black and to democratic and thats not why you take someones vote away at least it shouldnt be untrue 1020. 00 so again we need to address these things and i am when we talk about the will of the people we have to understand that the Electoral College if you understand its Foundation Goes back to the 3 things compromise it may be dated right now and you know you shouldnt have a situation where someone loses by 3000000 votes 3000000 americans believe that the other person should have won the election and then they come out the we emerge the winner so to me it sounds to me like we need to address these things at least start to have a conversation about how to fix them how to make it more democratic how to make it so that the will of the people is actually executed and again i would add you know if you want to talk about taxation without representation we can also to reporter rico in there the fact is they pay federal taxes and they still dont get representation in congress they get somebody who gets to speak a couple of words and i think that that is fundamentally unfair for american citizens if youre an american citizen you should have all the same rights as the next american citizen and right now were talking about john lewis and thats exactly what he stood for you know with with john lewis having just passed away was fighting for the fact that every american should have this. Same rights particularly when it comes to voting as every other american ok but laura if Hillary Clinton had won in 2016 i dont think we would be having this conversation about the Electoral College woodley i just i fundamentally disagree i think that that jason really hit it on the head when he said that this is really about Voting Rights and Voting Rights are fundamentally are people marching in the street and not just not not just black people white people marching from the suburbs with their strollers saying lets try it now we speak we see the connection to your own Family Violence and voter disenfranchisement we see the connection between the gutting of the Voting Rights act and peoples inability to hold people in Public Office so i fundamentally disagree i think that there are movements in this nation that would have happened whether you have a hillary in the white house for example trumped because these issues transcend and party and are the cornerstones of our democracy not everythings a political power play things maybe have been jerry rigged for some time in favor of certain certain constituencies or i think its always about power always i don