Professor and so Chalo University and in stand where we cross to Daniel Wagner he is c. E. O. Of country risk as well as author of china vision the America China dubai and his new book on the belt and wrote initiative in chinese or text or german crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok lets go to beijing richard the words that you know the world must change turning over china will change just how do you interpret that because so many commentators and one policy or one role if you were in his speech at the Nixon Library a big bewildering because its taking todays circumstances in the post cold war in kind of reverting back he would using the same kind of language and i want to talk about the ideological. I mean china will is changing i was. Well 1st of all i see in my palm pale speech at the Richard Nixon president ial library was an insult to those nixon political legacy and its an insult to china u. S. Relations for more than 4 to one yes no talking about change i would say no other country has changed them all then china has over the past 40 years and if that changes are good for Chinese Peoples interest of course i will work up whatever changes we can bring along if the changes are to stop chinas economic rise i think all the chances people will unite behind the Chinese Government to oppose and fight against those changes i think what panto is talking about is that china should no longer develop and shall i should give up the rights of peaceful rise and this is what the townspeople can never accept china neat changes the more the better if the changes will change china for the better and will improve the Living Standards of the Chinese People and these changes are what china are pursuing but these changes are exactly the opposite of what people at home pale and wishing for so we are at a very important crossroad ng in World History and chinas Economic Development is a major trend no one can stop chinas Economic Development. Ok daniel how do you how did you react to the mike pump ayos speech at the Nixon Library because a lot of people in a surprising number and said it is the this isnt a drawing a line in the sand is that is that what we need right now and it is that is his message. I think 1st of all the reason that he chose that venue is because back in the 1970 s. When kissinger and nixon opened up the door to us china relations i think there was an acknowledgment at the time or at least a hope that what might happen is that there would not only be a peaceful rise which of course Everyone Wants and everyone agrees with generally but they also were presuming that if there was enough exposure to the west if there was a Good Relationship between the u. S. And china and the west more generally that you know china would gradually liberalized politically and it would change into something other than what it was of course that didnt happen and i think the reason that it shows that venue is because if he had known that maybe that wasnt going to happen that maybe he would have thought twice about exactly how he did what he did but that all said i think the u. S. Government the u. S. People they certainly acknowledge that china is a very important and significant country its not going anywhere i dont think the american the American Government know what no matter what its come composition would dream of suggesting that china is not going to continue its rockets i think its clearly an unstoppable trend no one even if there was a desire no one would be capable of doing it so i think its its really an acknowledgement of where we are in sinar u. S. Relations at the present time you know really. I thought my comp aon misinterpreted Richard Nixons opening because he is if you look at the historical record we have to remember this was in the middle. Cold war week and it was a nickname finally acknowledgment and in the washington elites that it was a rift between the soviet union and china and the nixons damned it was to get to triangulate to get in there and do work all off have characters work players working simultaneously and it actually works to the benefit of all 3 but i mean my campaign was interpreted is that china nixons intent was to change the internal order china and i think thats a misrepresentation of the historical record this is about Foreign Policy go ahead. Absolutely i actually had the great honor and privilege of working for Richard Nixon when he visited china in 1985 as a private citizen and we travel together to several cities in china in addition to beijing nixon impressed me a great deal with his vision with his Historical Perspective and also with his carry on china u. S. Relations so i see what my own pail did in the nixon president ial library is a sacrilege is a really an insight of the nixon historical legacy not i seek what the United States need to do is to figure out a way to get along with china whether us is bigger than china or whether china is bigger than us it doesnt matter that much the key is for china and the United States the 2 largest economies in the world they need to get in there are with each other and you knew to figure out a way to deal with each others differences for example with respect rather than go into each others juggler rather than trying to wrestle the other side down to the ground because thats not possible the more pressure people i promptly helpful on china the more resilient china becomes and the more the Chinese People are rally behind the Chinese Communist party in our culture are the Chinese Communist party is the largest the Political Party in the world with more than 93000000 members so i dont think im pale really knows what hes talking about the Chinese People are really very much united will accomplish plenty of china why because they eat improve the Living Standards of the Chinese People they fight off the coronavirus they save people in the middle of the curler batters even those people in that mine tips for example this is why the come his idea of china in china earns a lot of credential and also respect and support from the Chinese People song i. Whatever it wishes my popeil may have is they should is alicias all futility. Daniel one of the things they find very curious and it kind of you dont tails in with the rise of this pandemic is that for some reason the United States with its current political order in the political order in china run by the communist party as weve just heard here all the sudden they cant coexist its really quite remarkably nice they coexisted 1st 70 years but a little last 4 months all i hear is communist china the communist party of china is thrown into the media here i mean is it something new its not new how do you explain that well a part thats new as everybody understands at least here in america is that the Trump Administration really is no longer taking china at its word that its going to do certain things we know for example that in the Obama Administration there was an effort to stop cyber intrusions and sarah back into any team she and obama had agreed to and then you know a month or 2 later they were back at it so i think theres an acknowledgement that the gloves are off that something fundamental has to change in the relationship and that china is no longer going to quote have its way with america whether it is these of the trade or in terms of traditions or the theft of intellectual property the difference is now the trumpet administration has basically said this will not stand in the longer we dont care if it has an impact on the bilateral relationship something fundamental has to change now i dont agree with trump about very much at all but i do agree that its important to tackle you know very fundamental aspects of International Relations and this is one of the i mean clearly the nature of that relationship could not continue going on the way that it was and it trumps credit not accustomed to credit him for much i think that it ultimately will prove to be. Useful that the gloves are off and that there will be something fundamental that will change in this relationship that hastur him daniel into having said that they need the gloves are off the gloves are off to both sides right because yes i mean you know bigger and you know i am not in the Intelligence Community and i cannot speak with authority here but. I think it is a default that countries live on each other in the but the more more powerful and richer and more resources you have the more youre going to apply it in the way the American Media is always spinning is it only china is doing this i mean china doesnt it isnt its not never mentioned that this is part of the state ok im not going to vouch for the Chinese Government any more than im going to bow to the Us Government considering the weapons of mass destruction in iraq to me they were ever destroying the repudiation with lots of people like me so big are the gloves are off for most side thats where. Were talking about Cyber Espionage just read the bulk of the information coming out of Edward Snowden and i think we were out of a very comprehensive and complete picture of what the Us Government has been doing in terms of espionage all Cyber Espionage not to accuse china of thats while whitewash what the Us Government has been doing is really in dodgy in fantasy and i dont think people in germany for example or in other parts of europe will believe what washington is talking about and i would say the us way of man headley Great Tech Company like quali really reveals to the fullest extent that the us cannot tolerate a company which is better than its all which is more out send the lead its all bushs or lead up in the 5 g. And its not only trying to kill far away on his rallying all its output has tried to kill our way well he forgets that i kidding howie the americas not going to benefit because. This will track down the you as roll out of the 5 g. Networks as well as the applications to be built on top of the 5 g. Network it will be a net loss to the United States and eventually it may force china to really become completely Self Reliance in terms of said we cannot so its may actually. 1 thats the whole faulty youll s. Semiconductor industry so i dont see people at home pale all abandoned for example are all they know what they are talking they want to do one thing they dont care all the consequences well it comes because zeus will catch up with them this is how china u. S. Relations up played out right now and anybody watching that will do with its govs are all without his gloves are oh well there will be consequences and if i dont just exist i knew i can wrestle down china into the ground do you want it before we go to the break go ahead yeah yeah if i can just jump in on this actually 2017 i wrote a book on Cyber Espionage called virtual terror so i do know a thing or 2 about this the puter youre absolutely right of states engage in this type of behavior i think the objection here is the scale and the scope and the absence of consequences as a result of the actions that are often taken on the chinese side obviously the u. S. Is very active in this space as well if you really want to jump in here we have to go to a hard break and after that heart rate will continue our discussion on u. S. Chinese relations state party. Is your media a reflection of reality. In a world transformed. What will make you feel safe. Isolation community. Are you going the right way or are you being that. Direct. What is true what is faith. In the world corrupted you need to descend. To join us in the depths. Aura made in the shallows. How can you explain love ive been to 82 countries i did in 12 but i came here and on those 3 days i just filled with hope. And he kept pretty isnt it sick show that. I made my decision to come here because i felt i knew i could build a new life suited to who should. Put his name was. Joseph i think god decided that this money is no good to be free. But only. Then did you figure out where my one dream is that all my children d find the same kind of happiness i do. I love my home here i love cold weather i like the culture i like the history i like everything about it almost. Thought i was i know that. I am a russian fama. Welcome back to cross or all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing whether china is now be enemy. Ok lets go back to dan again you were talking about cyberspace before we went to the break. So i just wanted to pick up on one point that victor had made regarding the objection the u. S. Government has to walk away this because of the linkages between while away and Chinese Government if were always were strictly a commercial entity i dont think there would be much to object about and i also believe that having taken the actions that its taken on huawei its going to encourage American Companies to actually do more in the space and buy and 60 and i do think that ultimately that will be the net result ok with it its very interesting i think as i think victor is already kind of alluded to it is that the way were going were going to have to internet were going to have you know a huge one country is going to choose to be on one platform and the other is intrusion on another and it doesnt look very good for the u. S. Because in in europe i mean for example the germans are really pushing really hard and they want to make their own decision and this is a way and we have the u. K. Already come up i want to switch gears a little bit here i want to go back to something the pump you know said im going to write this to you victor china ripped off our priced intellectual property and trade secrets costing millions of jobs across america i find im really getting tired of this argument here it was the captains of american industry that decided where they were going to make it do their manufacturing and they get a lot of it went to china went to mexico went to other countries it would be a lot of Different Countries here but to blame china for stealing jobs i find that really galling and its not in words with. Verifiable facts i would also say its missed a lot is that american productivity actually increased amazingly and it was allowed to cut jobs i mean we have a productivity issue and then moving assets into foreign markets here i dont see how that is chinas all china. And shareholders of American Companies immensely benefited from it go ahead nick. Absolutely as of now china is already the largest patent producer in the world larger than the United States and china has a greater vested interest in protecting our rights or china itself or its companies as well as for companies throughout the world and the chinese Economic Transformation over the past 40 yes is really achieved by the great contribution and hard work and hard labor of the Chinese People are eager to meet we really. Take a rest for weekends we really take holidays off for example we keep working and this is the reason fundamental reason for the High Economic productivity interest and i think if you compare the disciplining or the work. Ethics of the Chinese People worse is many other countries you will see why chinas Economic Development has been so rapid over the last 40 years and i hope really it will continue to accuse china of archaeology rights set is really the wrong tree as a matter of fact there are more litigations between and among American Companies i guess American Companies or American Companies or as Korean Company has French Companies et cetera in terms of intellectual rights in sri shouldnt internet your rights problems im not unique to china and the Chinese Government has never had any state policy to encourage saft of our p. R. Rights for example saw i think this is purely fabrication for the u. S. Government try to focus on chinas problem as if for example china abate the great Economic Transformation over the past 40 years because of the threat of our young nothing could be further from the truth as is and again. You know danny one of the things i mean you know you and i but i didnt you know it iraq americans here in and you know. I