Escape through just Consumer Spending or oring money in the. Stock market thats not going to do anything we have to create a new economy which offers good jobs or construct if were. Developing the times of interest structures social environmental structure physical structure that we need the kind of goods that we need to live a decent life and thats the other half of the Green New Deal it is essential for not only for survival but for Health Issues you mention corona virus how does coronavirus alter your analysis given that corona virus threatens corporate profits interestedly it does not yet. Sure written most corporate profits many corporations are making money hand over d fist of that high tech for example whether it was 1. 00 day in which jiffies us termed 13000000000. 00 or theyre going to hedge funds private equity funds old doing fine because the treasurer is poor and money into the economy in a way which largely benefits them if you take a look at the economy take the United States but its world will the stock market is breaking records however hes referring records theyre totally dissociated and thats. A sign of the eat disease of the economy which then only be overcome by the development of the policies. Outlined in the details of the Green New Deal proposals what do you make of the continuing corporate reframing of the Climate Crisis its up to ordinary people to recycle to buy organic food its up to them rather than the need for systemic change naturally those who benefit from existing institutions do duck under see them changed not which rudd is a fair bit to tell a tarion dictatorship and their problems the dictator isnt going to say overthrow me well thats a knowledge as to what youre describing the core of the problem is the. Massive. Production for private profit not for need and the you should the fossil fuels will may have to be phasing the mel and moving towards total Sustainable Energy no new emissions within a few decades weve talked to scientists about how deforestation that to coronavirus tell me about how in the book you talk about even strategies like red its called ari d d its funded by corporations to stop deforestation but in your book here say that it actually facilitates deforestation encourages it. Helps corporate farmers at the expense of others why is it time and time again these strategies sponsored by governments and the world bank in that case seem to achieve the opposite effect i mean they may in the back of their minds decent intentions but there are constrained by the nature of institutional power to develop programs which will not harm the powerful institution thats. Most at the core. But will further ensure to their needs the result is always a switch whatever their intentions are often negative in there we have to address the problems originally without or. Giving priority to the needs of the destructive institutions theres no time to overcome a limited we have to accommodate to their existence the timescale of institutional change is out of the range of time skill for dealing with the environment forests so we have to work within the basic institutional structure that exists within it we can try and very clear definite o. Ses there outline the my colleague poems your visions of the book and so on the till which with a small percentage of the economy suffice to will suffice to deal with these twin programmes has helped book actually go further than the road to hell being paved by good intentions because who want to shock people as you call it deliberately malicious a stake was just happening right in front of her. So the last few days was strong corporate backing the truck of ministration has been eliminating. Regulations which protect the population and the environment d from release of methane and or snaked other locks ways to the benefit of the corporate system not only the fossil fuel companies but the banks finance them benefits them. Severely harms the environment and harms the American People then care of lets not malice what is now there may be somebody in the boardroom who says it would be nice to deal with the environment and it would be nice to bill well when it comes to making specific decisions to maximize profit. And market share all those good intentions faded to the back and the book the deal is clear that full employment is key but polling quote calm ox saying capitalism require as unemployment to diminish the boggling power of what because where is this greendale seems to provide for full employment. Remember that we do not live in a capitalist society of the kind that marx was discussing marx was discussing quite properly an abstract form of capitalism which brings out its essential nature so every existence is watermill a form of state capitalism where state action has been undertaken under pressure to mitigate the Destructive Forces of pure capitalism so yes sure capitalism would require as mark says the reserve on nuclear but state capitalism and overcome the floor moved to guarantee employment and instead of decent employment there for what it isnt do with all problems of capitalism in fact we were moving pretty close to formal school employment. Under obamas so the tepid response to those financial d questions continue to troll who is not the kind of full employment that any decent human being would want the jury a large order that was highly experienced job very look i got to ask you does it surprise even you how capitalism has reinforced systems of power among elites even though it may endanger their own children suppose youre the c. E. O. Of. d j. P. Morgan chase biggest bank or exxon mobil you basically have to jewishness. One choice is to meet the requirements of the institutional structures that exist and work to maximize profits no matter what the human consequences thats one choice or the other choice is to put those aside and work to create a decent world suppose you makes a choice in your immediately thrown out of the board of directors and somebody else is put in who makes the 1st choice theirs or institutional its not individual no thats not to say that it be changed within existing institutions it can so take j. P. Morgan chase again biggest bank recently an internal memo of the bank was leaked and made public was very interesting it warned the directors of the bank that this and their words the survival of humanity is it stage if we continue on our present course of funding trouble feels that it added that the bank is facing reputational risks meaning the public is getting and rage and will take its revenge on you and harm you the leaders of the bank unless you make moves towards. Working to Save Humanity from destruction otherwise the banks will be taken over by the public and national ads which can be done or replaced by public thanks nuptial within reach and the leaders of the economy know that their old is quite fragile while everything seems nationalized here in britain more so than off to the 2000. Crash because of a pandemic and hundreds of people are being arrested on the streets of london as part of the Extinction Rebellion protest that j. P. Morgan claims in public rather than a leaked memo fossil fuel loads for the Arctic Drilling have stopped their phasing out known for coal mining and theyre planning a 200000000000. 00 empowerment something called the Empowerment Economic Development deal on par with Goldman Sachs you mention exxon mobil well the bottom shelf says yes Climate Change is real yes renewables are an indispensable part of the future energy mix but no provoking provoking a sudden death of fossil fuel is not a plausible plan and then what you do is explain to the general public that this holds that theyre serving their own interests and you must hold their feet to the fire to drop those pretenses and to do with a no is in. Fees of will and correct to move away from certainly from coal and from all d d d fossil fuels as rapidly as we are involved in this war or would the ruling class doesnt say im just going to do it i want i dont care but you cant they dont have that power their rule is fragile they know it therefore they must accommodate to it enter judged active engaged of your relation exactly as is often done in the us the Green New Deal d uses the phrase new deal because the new deal in the 1930 s. Did something very similar. Or not asha efficient scale but same kind of thing a Government Action to overcome a crisis deep crisis coal caused by the fundamental flaws of capitalist society and then came the war. I wish more. Would. Require. And depression. Over the. Consumer demand which led to several. Surely room surely go there is no and. More from one of the worlds greatest public intellectuals after this break. Trade and investment of become magic spells to conjugate you cannot make development. Most people think about trade they think about goods and services being exchanged between countries and the investment chopped or a trade agreement as about something very different but wont when investment leads to toxic manufacturing that destroys sacred sites all ruins the environment. That means local communities that are being poisoned to thing object if they do anything that the company feels is interrupting their profits they can be certain now multinationals are taking on the whole nation Philip Morris is trying to use i. S. T. s to stop tour of the white from implementing new tobacco regulations aimed at cutting domestic smoking rates a French Company sued egypt because egypt to raise its minimum wage democratic choice trump corporate long joint says we try to fund dont want to touch it. So what weve got to do is identify the threats that we have its crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. Spearing Dramatic Development only im going to resist i dont see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and tom. Welcome back im still here with american president and author of the seminal manufacturing consent no im jones imagine the new deal clearly your primary process for the democrats did not elect Bernie Sanders who favored the new deal style politics here in britain of course Jeremy Corbyn lost the election what do you make of november you say in the book the democrats are in the pockets of wall street lobbyists the republicans you compared to right wing fringe parties of europe. We know that the republicans are. They are in International Comparisons they are compared with 3 parties in europe with neo fascist backgrounds and on issues like climate the worst in the world they want to trumpet ministration wants to race towards maximizing the used to fossil fuels eliminating the regulatory system which reduces somewhat their destructive effect on the climate on the population perfectly open about this not pretending anything otherwise d take a look at the Republican Convention not a word about it just trying to rouse peoples emotions fears a fear that wakes primacy. Of. Taking away their guns and any emotional appeal you can imagine told very familiar from or a product of regimes with a new fresh. In the inside the Democratic Party theres a conflict striking. You can see it if you look closely at whats. Climate you know back about 2 weeks take a look at the internet 2 weeks ago look for Democratic PartyClimate Programs theyre pretty Progressive Program was a fight Whose Program forced on biden he didnt choose it forced on biden by the progress or praise. Program or that any of that it yet exist tailored at the same internet now to fill in right tray and clipped democratic Climate Programs which you find is nothing. They removed the d n the Democratic National committee the d. N. C. Basically clintonite donor oriented democrats managed in a big power play to remove bidens progressive Climate Program thats a battle inside the Democratic Party is very rather similar to what we just saw and britain. Where d the blairite right wing labor party or the mantra labor Party Managed undermine the korban campaign in a really vicious matter very powerful 800 page deterrent study of how they did it which is being most recent pressed in the British Press area or which showed 2 means that they went to to try to undermine corbins effort to develop the labor party that would be responsive to the needs of its constituents before just story labor party with policies that actually had very high approval among the government the right way for the labor party for the mentor they were already couldnt stand that theyd rather lose the election than lose control of the party were saying something similar to that in the conflict within the Democratic Party today and what d it means is that the progressive base wants were harder more energetically more commitment case by who wins the election to ensure that they go back to the impressive programs that they had announced and not be forced to abandon them by the donor oriented clintonite conservative element of the party of basically what used to be called moderate republicans but all of that has vastly overshadowed by the desperate need to get rid of the malignancy in the way. Which whatever criticism you make of the Democratic Party the white house will need nancy is incomparably worse and will if that free. They say its true. Well we invite suggest aamer on to refute what you said about labor however hes seeking an investigation into our right to broadcast at all thats for joe biden apparently the policy hasnt changed 2 trillion dollars to boost clean energy and upgrade to 4000000. 00 buildings a seeking of a shift towards Public Transportation but of course as you know in the most recent speech joe biden said no ban on fracking there are so many different aspects obviously to the Green New Deal but given that weve had the deaths of refugees being reported here in the English Channel and in this book you say rich countries are in turmoil because a small fraction of refugees might defile their precious ethnic purity and you also quote the u. N. Figure of 65000000 refugees fleeing violence particular nand Global Warming why do you think they are presented in our media as a migrant and that the real enemy here is Human Trafficking not foreign policy. For the reasons that you just quoted. But here are. Well. It sure will racial purity weve seen though it sure Human History is disgraceful its shocking to be over. Your reaction so they were if its gross is this. Where europe is moving in the city you know senators who are structures in africa like you sure to try to beat her. Plea from the wreckage those european imperialism to make sure that they dont get to europe sure robi keep them away from us. You know the theres a reason why people are fleeing not because they love europe its because of intolerable conditions largely created by a european terror violence over centuries and now its europes responsibility to behave humanely towards. A not to resort to racists pretenses in order to unhitch them for all for europes crimes same is true here when president troll. Compels mexico to keep Central American refugees from reaching the territory of the United States to pull for asylum which they certainly deserve why are they fleeing Central America not because they dont like their own the current us terrorist lyall and destroyed their country there quite a few books people can read of us about that and thats terrible and violent i just. That you would agree presumably with donald trump however that our greatest amy jit threat was a new plan holocaust caused by Nuclear Weapons agree with trump is racing towards maximize exist threat of Nuclear Weapons thats why the the clock has been moved over the famous Doomsday Clock has been moved the minute then has been moved closer to midnight every year the truck has been in office this last january they abandoned minutes moved to seconds. 100 seconds to midnight since january has continued as an act on the arms control regime which is has been the rule somewhat limited enormous ringback threat of Nuclear Destruction it already eliminated the i. N. F. Treaty one couple months ago one chillin unaided the open skies treaty which traces but a lesson or he is no he laid on shrivel is grounds delayed implement the renewal of the new start treaty and now it may be too late to renew it and its the last of the major treaty is soon won beyond that or threatening to Start Nuclear testing as have been none for 28 years all of this is on top of that moving towards creating. New weapon new and or more threatening weapons of destruction against which there is no possible defense democrats dont have a pretty record on this issue but nothing from well we invite we invite the u. S. Ambassador on trump says actually hes all for peace obviously meant finally ive got to ask you about Julian Assange of wiki leaks he begins the trial of his life in 48 hours time in a london court the u. N. Reports