A german port town so lets see what the us functions its like a defiant tone. That theyre trying to tell us what to do here its really shameless the way the United States is trying to manipulate german along some european interests so that your interests come out on top. Moscow demands on says from washington amid reports the u. S. Is honoring troops in crimea the russian if he says terrorists. Kevin owen will be here with your full rundown in an hours time but 1st its crosstalk. Hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered on Peter Lavelle over the last 3 president ial election cycles there is clear evidence voters are attracted to the message of not interventionism and are very wary of foreign wars this most certainly helps trump in 2016 but his time in office is spotty at best now joe biden appears to embrace the same foreign policies as bush and obama i guess nothing really will undo mentally change. Cross knocking forever wars im joined by my guest laura fink in san diego she is the founder and c. E. O. Of rebel communications as well as a democratic strategist and in new york we crossed the line all he is a legal and media analyst i crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump any time you want and i also appreciate how it was going to san diego a Laura Joe Biden the president ial candidate for the democrats he had an interview with the news outlets are stars and stripes and the men are very clear that he would continue the foreign wars in the middle east should strips would remain there he had doesnt contemplate any kind of cuts in defense spending and at the same time we have like the Eurasia Group foundation which is kind of in the sec its a very centrist and they have research then to be overwhelmingly the public supports less militarization of Foreign Policy and decrease in military spending and are on the side of ending these forever wars why is joe sticking to the bush obama agenda go ahead mark well i think that its the white the American People want is probably in line with like joe biden wants no one wants to be an endless wars apennine gauge man is sometimes necessary and you know everyone would last you know in the Defense Budget after 19 years its still worth it how. Well look i think you know but look we can we can just you know different decisions made by different president s and i would say that there is a diversity of the lassa fever among the different president s specially names but i will say were talking globally about engagement versus isolation as also mentally this is about fomenting and trying to encourage peace in a very its a killer way and hurry tricky way and i think its i think its challenges and that doesnt mean just in that you know military engagement means diplomatic engagement needs Economic Engagement it means figuring out how to balance the tools in our tool caps to try to create stability and peace around the world and ultimately that is in the American Interest so i think that when we reduce these arguments into something about do or not do this is its you know yoda and starwars this is this is a complicated were in policy you know discussion and i think we have to take it case by case but but youve got you can go ahead make a play get out but its a difference with all due respect i think the American People are tired of its complicated ok thats why we need leadership and i dont think President Trump has done a very good job in this respect to make a line why is that the binary isolationism interventionism i see that all the time its a false argument well im im still trying to get over there ocean of fomenting peace i love that notion of were going to do were going to enrage people were going to to increase the courage of the vortex for peace by by engaging our military to foment peace we are forgetting the fame and if you will of the essence of this issue and that is simply this what is our mission nobody is against military involvement military action defending our allies but the idea that our of being there does something magical to keep our enemies and why we need to know why are we there look i dont want to go deep state police state intel. Stage shadow government ruling class but this is the military Industrial Complex that has been a part of the american political system irrespective of party thats what this is this isnt going to do with beach nobody can explain what were even doing in afghanistan yet if you ask people that had something remotely to do with 911 and that said there was nothing unamerican by demanding that we have a clear and cogent and limpid system of protocol and a message and a mission and thats it you know lowered it it seems to me because if we you know campaigning is campaigning promises are promises ok were all political junkies here but it seems to me that no matter what a candidate says maybe with the exception of hell ill see gabbert which the democrats dismissed quite quickly. And i feel very unfairly is that it doesnt really matter what your political stripe is the permanent state or what people call the deep state theyre just going to keep calling the shots because you know ill give trump credit for at least trying to get out of his quagmire ours but the deep state or the permanent bureaucracy constantly blocks dont you think thats going to happen to biden to go ahead well im not going to disagree that the military Industrial Complex is tower fall but they do i think that they are calling the shots alternately i think thats a tin hat Conspiracy Theory accent look that they under the globe all the gloves the distribution of global power is something that no single president can ultimately change but the u. S. Has a responsibility as a leader to unite our allies and to try to ensure that we have it because ultimately he helps us in and it protects our American Security and you know you cannot let go of the military option entirely i think thats naive i think you humble and i dont disagree that no 100 is employing a minute i didnt say that i didnt say. Ok again its a false binary cut and i dont want to engage on the fastener but im just telling you what im hearing here when i say bad that theres this conspiracy and that the military deep state is is directing and calling the shots i will say best donald trump is making big moves but the impact of those moves does not seem to be beneficial unilaterally removing troops from situations the for ensuring that there is debility and a vacuum is not create it ultimately doesnt do any good us any good it can get to be a great talking point so they can petri out but we will after this and figure out a sound withdrawal and the deal with the taliban will we see the Afghan Government i have a more stable in gauge went well we see the peoples livelihoods if the us is that the American Peoples responsibility to maintain peace in afghanistan why what is why is the United States in syria why its illegal under International Law it was not invited there and it is not about it im sorry its protecting its oil its not that its not americas oil to protect ok legacy lesleys my point here no one likes to talk about these things are very inconvenient or presence for peace think it keeps the civil war going on but here youre arguing against it without ad out without advocating for a solution so i dont know if you know youre saying if you did everybody out lucian its very simple if you get out then the parties on the ground will have to figure out how its i think its how do you get out maintain no good youre on the airplane then you get out you know go out if this is ridiculous this is an argument you can see i do this all its not to result in the kick the can or i tell you what if you get out there it will turn. Well 1st i love whenever something is promoted that is true that has been spoken of since eisenhower is valedictory the military Industrial Complex when you dont know what to say with all due respect to to our guest some measure of the facts coming my way or so. You bring up this this fact need trope about conspiracy theories just become the Climate Change whatever you dont know what to do why are there fires Climate Change now if you want to just say you dont believe in Climate Change either just to be clear i believe in Climate Change i believe in weather and the sun but i do not believe in an anthropogenic cause a genre. No never the how it was seen none of the housing maxima thermals anybody who really knows anything about this one are you anyway aside from that because were not going to do battle of the bunkers and youre already have a big problem i dont big make it bigger ready but yours think look no further than a hoe look no further than the Atlantic Council look no further than people trained to dredge up old cold war rousseau folding trucks there is a murder sure that is going on in the idea lets just go back to afghanistan where people have this this is they create this fantasy that by our being there were teaching villagers how to drill for welds or something it just so happens in afghanistan is the saudi arabia of libya and every conceivable precious metal that you can imagine that a friend of mine one time said what would have been the chances of our invading iraq if their main export had been progress we have to stop repeating these wonderful tropes and throw isnt about how theyre defending the world and somehow maintaining peace but heres a question you asked me if we were to leave lets just next year or less you say we just sat right here is our syria figure out why. What happened how what our oh and our in the United States how our or anybody elses National Security because its just so happens there are some pipe or here its about gaps its about getting straight to the mediterranean and rusty he reminding us that the frank capra wonderful idea is you know were going to spread liberty or never i mean this is your 2020 where were past. Ok oh you know how big laurie did but it seems to me i mean we have to remember what obamas watch was the catastrophe in libya and i see the same kind of intimacy susan rice a whole ring around joe biden i see Samantha Power hurrying around actually they both spoke at the the r. And c. I mean you want it with people with resumes like that should would you would you be happy to see them in a biden ministration well listen im just id like to place on one basketball that some of the things that have been sent here ultimately you know that there is a binary being advanced by lionel here and its that being involved no good can come of it you want to talk about syria for a minute lets talk about syria for a minute there were the complete absence of the u. S. President s president s leaves room for russia and turkey to gain a foothold in the middle east it creates instability in the middle east and it leaves a pathway to peace as as a simmer existence and this is as absolutely ridiculous to say that there is no impact when you remove american troops now it isnt an ideal situation youre be advocating for that again you know why is this important here but i dont hear any of that over here all the while you decry this binary that doesnt exist so and so merican presence in syria bringing about peace you know what it does is it doesnt allow the government to rebuild ok i mean i mean the u. S. Government continues to say action syria after the u. S. Lost its last there and its processes let that they do you would seek is easy and i dont croak unsalted really not a credit its all in every case and i just allow them places you know foreign governments that are adversaries of the United States russia being one of them turkey being one of them just taking over the power and and im leaving a power vacuum everywhere why do you say you are lacking is that where it sounds right it would actually make people sit down and talk instead of funding terrorist groups in the middle east you know if you know if saudi arabia is a close ally be United States. Only not when saudi arabia is is exploiting the most noxious ideology can possibly conceive them let me let me know even at my age or end up ok now that man is a one of the big in the region would have to figure it out here ok and then i and about the military im just saying why is this in the American Interest to be in afghanistan in syria and iraq when the Iraqi Government and people want us to meet how would we help the iraqi people im not all right on this point i have to go to a hard break im like im trying not to be rude oh yeah we did it when we return well continue our discussion on a river war say. That the bill really kisner those who really can show you. To make these just be sweet but. That would that i suppose on notice that i stay so that. You know none of us trippin or bow episodes didnt go to see you. Think you sneer during your posts where you could be near my stuff mr if not thoughts about spirits i didnt do it was more than a 6 but im intending no. Stadia cruel to. Show us the stress of school issuance for you to post. To or to move. To a story kick your butt is. Ringback democracy is driven domestically not internationally or seen efforts by international can i say should. And governments to promote democracy in countries like iraq afghanistan are seen how difficult that it is ultimately it has to be reduced domestically because otherwise International Actors need to be in the country 24. 00 sevenths to make a sustainable so any country in the world thats built a sustainable democracy has proved to domestically be sometimes of International Help domestically. Welcome back to crossed up were all things are considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing forever warse. Ok tomorrow you and i were having quite a heated discussion before we went to the break i think i do you owe you a time to reply im going to be here let me just say i dont know where to start because you just keep tossing in countries the game but ultimately we have got to get hot and about the other day that the other instruments that were talking about here which is the erosion of the diplomatic work is this is an entirely military solution this is an economic solution that needs to be foments and with the instrument about solution being that that will matter work you need to have diplomats in gauging and you also need to have alliances i mean america is at its strongest when we have our allies moving forward when were at the center of these negotiations when were working to use our influence and pride so that we can defend our economic interests and ultimately promote democracy because we know that liberal democracies dont fight with one another and only by worse when other teams are not a lot and why didnt you just let me finish one sentence and that would be great you didnt interrupt lionel but you got sure you will at some point but little democracies dont fight with one another so we should be advancing peace and that you may say that thats naive but that should be the ultimate goal with these sort of moves and that so youre not going to agree with me even on the diplomatic you have no right and and needles are here and our lives so well be democratic ok that that is i didnt say that i didnt say or i did was say anything let it go ahead. He went back in time and took somebody who lets see him right around the vietnam era brought them back listen to this conversation and ask. Which one do you think those people taught you right now is the democrat whos a republican or if you would say well this this very very well spoken woman i think is she must be shes a hard liner shes a hockey shes a republican so where are you sending about. Writing him arguments we did in beat it not we never learn to shower him back you know we have to go there let me explain you one thing that you will never hear joe might claim or honor or speak through his wisdom decrepitude you will never hear the country china or. Mention about anything we will continue with the troll zima over russian or in this room so old thinking baiting because bad has been the theme from the get go so the idea is simply that. The Democratic Party has sold out to whatever you want to call it another Conspiracy Theory that it was a conspiracy in fact of the people who have won this country for ever and that is you want to call the military Industrial Complex but if joe biden is a manchurian candidate a man who does not know where he is a man who was basically changer or radiator in a root cellar somewhere was going to be some planted within 2 to 3 months kamel harris if theyre successful is going to be important in their ultimate mid cheery mentor in canada who will make the reclaim look like ramsey clark now we can pretend all we wanted we can use terms of ongoing unit being strong but this is about giving the checkbook to the people who have the. This country doesnt radio youre not going on at all youre not youre going to not me that i am oh thats ok its good i know youre just did so jump it was though here is the day you can do that i dont know how you dont just drive out of the temple have i dont know understand how anybody yet that we want to talk about sign us joe biden is absolutely shocked about sign x. So now hes against your he added lets get your place by comma i hear i mean i would you miss you new alliance or write novels that would keep me up at night and bigger rated maybe we can guess what movies you know 90 and id say there isnt but that has no business that you know got it right and who are going to policy look me in the eye and look at kerry in the eye and tell me that nobody going to turn to any of your stuff no democratic operatives has the subject know when is common my hair is going to replace j